• Who is your favorite among the top German aces in WWII?

    Did I forget a category or person?


  • Afternoon Worsham.
    Hard one for me, obviously.
    Think the U-Boat aces are great men too. Real men.

  • '17 '16 '13 '12

    There is probably a best sniper out there, right?

  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Erich Hartmann easily.

    Almost never got shot down… and used to sneak up on his opponents.

    He would get his plane so close to theirs, that the only thing he could see in his cockpit was the enemy plane… then he would fire.

    He was also a bad-ass after the war too, and defeated the Russians mentally whilst in captivity.  Pretty impressive.


  • @Gargantua:

    Erich Hartmann easily.

    Almost never got shot down… and used to sneak up on his opponents.

    He would get his plane so close to theirs, that the only thing he could see in his cockpit was the enemy plane… then he would fire.

    He was also a bad-ass after the war too, and defeated the Russians mentally whilst in captivity.  Pretty impressive.

    His biography, The Blonde Knight of Germany is awesome read.


  • @ABWorsham:

    Did I forget a category or person?

    I don’t know how his numbers stack up against the others, but Adolf Galland shot down over a hundred Allied aircraft.


  • Just looked up Werner Molders because of this thread Worsham.
    Thanks again.

    Am obviously upset that the German government decided  in the 90s that he should no longer be honoured, as he fought in the Condor Legion in Spain. Then later removed his name from the Fighter Wing to which it had been assigned.
    Sounds like a man of integrity.



  • @Clyde85:

    John Rabe  :-)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rabe

    Thanks for the great information!


  • My vote goes to Erich Topp ,3rd best U-boat ace.

  • Customizer

    Hartmann


  • @Gargantua:

    Erich Hartmann easily.

    Almost never got shot down… and used to sneak up on his opponents.

    He would get his plane so close to theirs, that the only thing he could see in his cockpit was the enemy plane… then he would fire.

    He was also a bad-ass after the war too, and defeated the Russians mentally whilst in captivity.  Pretty impressive.

    Hartmann is obviously a slam dunk. The highest scoring fighter ace in history.

    But he let us choose up to two; and there was a lot from which to choose. I was very tempted to pick Kurt Knispel; both for his dramatic success on the battlefield and his character and humility. But I ultimately went with Rudel.


    According to his autobiography, on one occasion, after trying a landing to rescue two downed novice Stuka crewmen and then not being able to take off again due to the muddy conditions, he and his three companions, while being chased for 6 km by Soviet soldiers, made their way down a steep cliff by sliding down trees, then swam 600 meters across the icy Dniester river, during which his rear gunner, Knight’s Cross holder Hentschel, succumbed to the cold water and drowned. Several miles further towards the German lines, the three survivors were then captured by Soviets, but Rudel, knowing there was a bounty on his head, again made a run for it. Despite being barefoot and in soaking clothes, getting shot in his shoulder, and being hunted by several hundred pursuers with dog packs, he eventually managed to make his way back to his own lines.[4]

    In total, he was wounded five times and rescued six stranded aircrew from enemy territory, although the two mentioned above were recaptured.


    I’d also like to give an honorable mention to Hannah Reitsch.


    For Hanna Reitsch, Nazi Germany’s celebrated woman test pilot who had flown the VI rocket bomb in sub orbital flight 80,000 feet up in the early 1940’s – years before the first American spaceman – was actually history’s first astronaut. . . .

    At a time when women were expected to stay in the kitchen, she was one of the world’s top glider pilots. She held 40 world aviation records; was the first to cross the Alps in a glider, first to fly a helicopter and first to fly a jet plane. She was the first woman awarded the Iron Cross and was the world’s first woman test pilot.

    History records she flew into a burning Berlin at night in the last days of the war and landed a small plane safely on a street full of firing Russian tanks. A direct hit on her plane mangled the foot of the pilot who had been summoned by Adolf Hitler. Hanna had been standing behind him but when he was wounded, took over the perilous landing. . . .

    Hitler explained he’d asked them to come because Luftwaffe head Herman Goering had refused an order to fly in. Instead he had sent a telegram asking to take over as new Chancellor.

    Hanna stayed three days in the Hitler underground bunker then flew the last plane out of Berlin before it fell to the Russians. Her eye-witness account of the last days of Hitler are an important part of history and her flights in the VI rocket are a first chapter in space travel.


    Also:


    One type of plane she tested was a heavy bomber that had steel blades installed on the leading edges of the wings to cut the heavy steel cables used to tether barrage balloons. During one demonstration for Luftwaffe brass of this hair-brained scheme, Reitsch made a graceful landing and exited the cockpit smiling and waving after deliberately flying into the cables. Only she knew that the wing had almost been ripped from the plane when she hit a cable and she had to fight for her life–second by unnerving second–to get the crippled plane on the runway.

    On another hair-raising flight in a stricken plane, instead of bailing out, Reitsch calmly recorded flight data with paper and pencil because she did not think she would live long enough to make the report in person.

    Many of the designs that Reitsch tested were novel and innovative, and some were just simply ill-conceived deathtraps.



  • @KurtGodel7:

    For Hanna Reitsch, Nazi Germany’s celebrated woman test pilot who had flown the VI rocket bomb in sub orbital flight 80,000 feet up in the early 1940’s – years before the first American spaceman – was actually history’s first astronaut

    The Fédération Aéronautique Internationale’s definition of an astronaut is somebody who has flown above an altitude of 100 km (62 miles), the point at which the atmosphere becomes too thin to support winged flight.  That works out to 327,360 feet. Hannah Reitsch would have had to go four times higher than 80,000 feet to earn an astronaut’s wings.

  • 2024 2023 '22 '21 '20 '19 '18 '17

    @KurtGodel7:

    I’d also like to give an honorable mention to Hannah Reitsch.


    For Hanna Reitsch, Nazi Germany’s celebrated woman test pilot who had flown the VI rocket bomb in sub orbital flight 80,000 feet up in the early 1940’s – years before the first American spaceman – was actually history’s first astronaut. . . .

    I never heard or read anything before about this “VI rocket bomb”. The article you quote mentions both the well-known V1 and the “VI”. Since a modified V1 was indeed flown by Hanna Reitsch but would be entirely unable to reach the height mentioned, I’m curious about the “VI rocket bomb”. Do you have any additional information on it?

  • 2024 2023 '22 '21 '20 '19 '18 '17

    @CWO:

    That works out to 327,360 feet. Hannah Reitsch would have had to go four times higher than 80,000 feet to earn an astronaut’s wings.

    It’s entirely a side note, but I couldn’t help noticing the irony that “astronaut’s wings” are awarded for reaching an altitude that lies far above where wings can carry you.

    As to the original question…. I’m really clueless. All great achievements, and who am I to compare them?


  • I was surprised by Kurt Knispel’s bio, and even more surprised that he did not bear a Knight’s Cross. Started in a Panzer I & II and ended commanding a Tiger.


  • @Herr:

    I never heard or read anything before about this “VI rocket bomb”. The article you quote mentions both the well-known V1 and the “VI”. Since a modified V1 was indeed flown by Hanna Reitsch but would be entirely unable to reach the height mentioned, I’m curious about the “VI rocket bomb”. Do you have any additional information on it?

    To be honest, I’m not completely sure what the author meant by the “VI rocket bomb.” One possibility is that it was a reference to the V-1e; a manned variant of the V1.


    Late in the war, several air-launched piloted V-1s, known as Reichenbergs, were built, but never used in combat. Hanna Reitsch made some flights in the modified V-1 Fieseler Reichenberg when she was asked to find out why test pilots were unable to land it and had died as a result.


    Those are not the circumstances under which I’d like to be asked to fly something! :o But Reitsch did the test flight anyway and figured out what was wrong. Go here for more information about the V-1e.

    However, it seems far more likely that she would have set altitude records flying rocket-powered aircraft than something powered with a pulse-jet, like the V-1 or V-1e. Granted, she test flew rocket powered aircraft such as the Komet. But that doesn’t get us any closer to understanding whatever the author meant by the “VI rocket bomb.”

    Nazi Germany made a series of suborbital space flights in 1944. They achieved altitudes of 176 km / 109 miles. My impression is that none of these rockets were manned.


  • I went with Otto Kretschmer on this one. Maybe not the best one, it is impossible to tell.

    But I have always been fascinated about the fate of the U-boat crews. Seems to me they were all doomed, sooner or later they would be hit by a depth charge - the more patrols they survived, the greater was the chance for not surviving the next one. Just like playing Russian roulette without spinning the cylinder between each pull of the trigger. I guess  Kretschmer would be KIA if he had not ben captured so early.


  • @Herr:

    It’s entirely a side note, but I couldn’t help noticing the irony that “astronaut’s wings” are awarded for reaching an altitude that lies far above where wings can carry you.

    Yes, it’s an expresion which doesn’t hold up very well when you look at it closely.  Another example is the Long Lance torpedo which I mentioned in another thread.  It’s commonly described as an oxygen-fueled torpedo, but of course oxygen is actually an oxidizer rather than a fuel.


  • @CWO:

    The Fédération Aéronautique Internationale’s definition of an astronaut is somebody who has flown above an altitude of 100 km (62 miles), the point at which the atmosphere becomes too thin to support winged flight.  That works out to 327,360 feet. Hannah Reitsch would have had to go four times higher than 80,000 feet to earn an astronaut’s wings.

    I’ve done some more thinking about your post and Herr KaLeun’s post about what the article described as the “VI rocket bomb.” Below represents what I feel is what most likely happened.

    1. The Germans attached a small, rocket-powered plane, such as the Komet, to some larger aircraft.
    2. The larger aircraft reached the best speed/elevation it reasonably could.
    3. The pilot of the rocket-powered aircraft (Hanna Reitsch) detached from the larger aircraft and ignited the rocket engines.
    4. Almost immediately, she went into a vertical climb, and continued to climb until the rocket fuel ran out. She attained an elevation which could not be reached by piston- or jet-driven aircraft. In doing so, she met the reporter’s own, personal definition of the word “astronaut.”
    5. The reporter knew in vague terms that the above is what happened. He also knew that Hanna Reitsch had test-flown a manned version of the V1. He got the manned version of the V1 confused with the rocket-powered plane described in 1 - 4.
    6. The reporter mistakenly believed the V1 was rocket powered–like a less advanced version of the V2. He did not realize that the V1 was powered with a pulse jet, not a rocket.
    7. The reporter didn’t know whether the Germans used the number 1 to designate the V1; or the Roman numeral I. He therefore sometimes referred to the V1; and sometimes to the VI; with the I in this case representing the Roman numeral one.
    8. A charming, intelligent, wonderful fellow posted a portion of the reporter’s article to a WWII discussion board. This otherwise great guy naively trusted the reporter to do his fact checking correctly.
    9. Posts from knowledgeable people like CWO Marc and Herr KaLeun demonstrated that the amazing guy described in 8 had been wrong to trust the reporter’s fact checking so completely.

Suggested Topics

  • 2
  • 7
  • 72
  • 8
  • 11
  • 6
  • 34
  • 52
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures

40

Online

17.0k

Users

39.3k

Topics

1.7m

Posts