A question about rules on strafing and AA guns



  • I’m in a game now where this scenario came up:

    I strafe into Belarus with Germany. The Russians defend with 5 inf and an AA gun. I get 5 hits and retreat. This is a PBEM game so I just remove the AA gun and 4 inf, and retreat to Eastern Poland. The question is if he chose to remove 5 infantry and leave the AA gun, would that eliminate my option to retreat (as the aa gun has no defense after the first roll)? The TripleA engine lets me retreat either way, but I wondered if anyone knows if this in accordance with the rules.

    Thanks in advance 🙂


  • '14 Customizer

    The AA guns still count as a casualty so you could retreat with only the AA gun left.


  • Official Q&A

    Like transports, AAA by themselves are automatically destroyed when attacked.  If only AAA are left after removing casualties, they too are destroyed, and there’s nothing left to retreat from.



  • Just to get this straight (I’m a bit confused now):

    Since AAGuns fit into the same category as TRS, apparently, I’ve taken a closer look into those rules (defenseless transports). Remaining TRS are simply removed all at once.
    The rules are easily interpretated that this is not mandatory, but rather a means ‘to speed up combat’. I.e. as the attacker, I can imagine that sometimes you do not want to ‘speed up combat’ and roll a couple of times against the TRS, in order to ‘keep the right to retreat’ (into a safer SZ).

    So, is it mandatory to speed up combat (removing all remaining TRSs at once), or is it not such a strict rule, more an option based on the desire to speed up combat?

    Last but not least: the rules clearly state that when an area containing only AAA units is attacked, the AAA units are automatically destroyed and the combat is concluded. In the OP’s example however, the territory did not contain only AAA units so combat was entered. Doesn’t this entitle the attacker the option to (combat sequence step 6) press the attack (in which case all remaining AAA will be destroyed at once) or retreat (in which case the remaining AAA will survive)?


  • 2020 2018 2017 '16 '15 TripleA

    I’m on the other side of the game VS brincobi, and obviously have somewhat of a vested interest in this but really just want to know what the rule is.

    First off, Krieghund’s ruling makes sense to me. Thanks for replying!

    While reviewing the rulebook, I found something else that didn’t quite make sense to me:

    If you moved any units into unoccupied hostile territories
    or hostile territories that contain only facilities and/or
    AAA units, no actual combat is necessary. Simply skip to
    step 7 (Conclude Combat) for each of these territories and
    remove any AAA units that might be in them.
    (page 19 under “General Combat”

    So let’s say I attack a territory with 1 fighter, and it has one defending AAA. Does the AAA fire at me before I automatically kill it? Or is it just automatically destroyed? According to my reading of the rules, there would be no combat and the AAA would be automatically destroyed.

    EDIT: I just found this in the AAA unit profile:
    An AAA unit can fire at an air unit only
    when that unit attacks land and/or air units in the territory
    containing that AAA unit.

    So that answers my question. Any undefended AAA are automatically destroyed by any attacking land or air unit.


  • 2020 2018 2017 '16 '15 TripleA

    @ItIsILeClerc:

    Just to get this straight (I’m a bit confused now):

    Since AAGuns fit into the same category as TRS, apparently, I’ve taken a closer look into those rules (defenseless transports). Remaining TRS are simply removed all at once.
    The rules are easily interpretated that this is not mandatory, but rather a means ‘to speed up combat’. I.e. as the attacker, I can imagine that sometimes you do not want to ‘speed up combat’ and roll a couple of times against the TRS, in order to ‘keep the right to retreat’ (into a safer SZ).

    From my understanding, transports are defenseless and removed once they are no longer protected. The exception would be in a battle where subs + other naval or sea units are in sea combat, and only transports and air remain on the defender side. Assuming only the sub hits in any given round of combat, the sub hits would have to apply to the transports, but common sense would suggest that a single hit by a single sub would only kill a single transport, and not all of them at once. Unless they would all die at once?

    Last but not least: the rules clearly state that when an area containing only AAA units is attacked, the AAA units are automatically destroyed and the combat is concluded. In the OP’s example however, the territory did not contain only AAA units so combat was entered. Doesn’t this entitle the attacker the option to (combat sequence step 6) press the attack (in which case all remaining AAA will be destroyed at once) or retreat (in which case the remaining AAA will survive)?

    This is the crux of the question. To what extent are the AAA involved in combat given that they fire at attackers? By my reading of the rules, they fire before general combat, not in it, and while they can be taken as a casualty, because they don’t fire, they don’t technically take part in the battle and so need to be defended by a unit or they are automatically destroyed.


  • 2017 '16 '15

    The AA gets to shoot at up to 3 air units at the beginning of combat. If they miss they’re done. Ground unit only attack whacks the AA immediately.


  • Official Q&A

    @ItIsILeClerc:

    So, is it mandatory to speed up combat (removing all remaining TRSs at once), or is it not such a strict rule, more an option based on the desire to speed up combat.

    It is mandatory.

    @ItIsILeClerc:

    Last but not least: the rules clearly state that when an area containing only AAA units is attacked, the AAA units are automatically destroyed and the combat is concluded. In the OP’s example however, the territory did not contain only AAA units so combat was entered. Doesn’t this entitle the attacker the option to (combat sequence step 6) press the attack (in which case all remaining AAA will be destroyed at once) or retreat (in which case the remaining AAA will survive)?

    No.

    @freh:

    I’m on the other side of the game VS brincobi, and obviously have somewhat of a vested interest in this but really just want to know what the rule is.

    First off, Krieghund’s ruling makes sense to me. Thanks for replying!

    While reviewing the rulebook, I found something else that didn’t quite make sense to me:

    If you moved any units into unoccupied hostile territories
    or hostile territories that contain only facilities and/or
    AAA units, no actual combat is necessary. Simply skip to
    step 7 (Conclude Combat) for each of these territories and
    remove any AAA units that might be in them.
    (page 19 under “General Combat”

    So let’s say I attack a territory with 1 fighter, and it has one defending AAA. Does the AAA fire at me before I automatically kill it? Or is it just automatically destroyed? According to my reading of the rules, there would be no combat and the AAA would be automatically destroyed.

    EDIT: I just found this in the AAA unit profile:
    An AAA unit can fire at an air unit only
    when that unit attacks land and/or air units in the territory
    containing that AAA unit.

    So that answers my question. Any undefended AAA are automatically destroyed by any attacking land or air unit.

    The AAA will get to fire.  If any attacking units remain, the AAA will be automatically destroyed.

    @freh:

    From my understanding, transports are defenseless and removed once they are no longer protected. The exception would be in a battle where subs + other naval or sea units are in sea combat, and only transports and air remain on the defender side. Assuming only the sub hits in any given round of combat, the sub hits would have to apply to the transports, but common sense would suggest that a single hit by a single sub would only kill a single transport, and not all of them at once. Unless they would all die at once?

    They would not all die until they are defenseless.



  • Thanks for the clarification!
    Also note that there’s a bug in the engine which lets the attacker retreat with only the aaa left.


  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    We know about the bug.  It also lets you retreat when only transports are left.  You should carefully read all of the game notes in TripleA


  • Customizer

    This could be a way to prevent your enemy from strafing your units and retreating back to safety. Like in the above example, if Germany attacked the 5 Russian infantry and 1 AA gun with the idea to retreat back so they don’t leave forces extended where Russia might be able to wipe them out. So say Germany gets 5 hits, the Russian player can sacrifice the 5 infantry leaving the AA gun in which case the AA gun would be automatically destroyed and this would force the German force to take that territory, possibly exposing valuable units to Russian counter attack.


  • 2020 '16 '15 '14

    @knp7765:

    This could be a way to prevent your enemy from strafing your units and retreating back to safety. Like in the above example, if Germany attacked the 5 Russian infantry and 1 AA gun with the idea to retreat back so they don’t leave forces extended where Russia might be able to wipe them out. So say Germany gets 5 hits, the Russian player can sacrifice the 5 infantry leaving the AA gun in which case the AA gun would be automatically destroyed and this would force the German force to take that territory, possibly exposing valuable units to Russian counter attack.

    Wow, I think you guys have finally found an actual use for aa guns in G40!  😉


  • 2017 '16 '15

    well… if you don’t have any you might find a use for them as well:)


  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    Yes, knp, and this is why you also should not assume that your opponent will take off AAA first, if there is a potential for hit and run, unless you are an underhanded type of player


  • 2017 '16

    @knp7765:

    This could be a way to prevent your enemy from strafing your units and retreating back to safety. Like in the above example, if Germany attacked the 5 Russian infantry and 1 AA gun with the idea to retreat back so they don’t leave forces extended where Russia might be able to wipe them out. So say Germany gets 5 hits, the Russian player can sacrifice the 5 infantry leaving the AA gun in which case the AA gun would be automatically destroyed and this would force the German force to take that territory, possibly exposing valuable units to Russian counter attack.

    Are you sure about this?
    It is not played as if you were attacking Transports and retreat one SZ?

    Exemple: 3 Cruisers attacking 1 DD and 4 TPs (the bait) in a heavily dead-zoned SZ by nearby enemy’s subs.
    Let’s suppose Cruisers got 3 hits in the first combat round, then retreat.
    The remaining 2 TPs are still alive.
    It does require an additional combat round to obliterate all the remaining units (i.e. 2 TPs), right?

    Casualty is played out differently with AAA unit?


  • 2019 2017 '16 '15 '13

    Yeah I don’t understand knp’s example either.
    If Russia chooses the five infantry as the casualties how does this force Germany to attack the lone aa gun?
    Wouldn’t they have to CHOOSE to continue the attack to take out the aa gun?


  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    No, you guys are wrong and knp is right

    YOU CAN’T RETREAT FROM UNITS WITH NO COMBAT VALUE

    So you can’t retreat from only transports or from only AAA guns

    Baron, if your cruisers score a hit against that lone destroyer, there is no retreating

    You can retreat when YOU have only transports (as the attacker) but never when the DEFENDER has only transports.

    Note that Triple A has handled this wrong in the past, which may be why some of you are confused?  It is listed in the game notes as a bug, however.


  • 2019 2017 '16 '15 '13

    thanks for clearing that up gamer!


  • 2019 2018 2017 '16

    @Gamerman01:

    Yes, knp, and this is why you also should not assume that your opponent will take off AAA first, if there is a potential for hit and run, unless you are an underhanded type of player

    Correct Gamerman01.
    A defending AA gun is sometimes a pain…
    and can change the outcome of battle.


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