Submarine vs submarine (surprise strikes)

[8thGuards]

Question regarding submarines.

If a lone submarine attacks another lone submarine, both obviously have the option to either surprise strike or submerge.

Suppose both decide to surprise strike, if the attacker hits, does the defending submarine still get its surprise strike? And can submarines eliminate each other that way? Or does the surprise strike only count against surface warships?

[The Pripet Martian]

As far as I can tell, the rules don’t address this situation directly. Since no destroyers are present, however, it would seem that both sides are allowed a surprise strike…which essentially means that sub vs. sub would be conducted in the same manner as normal (non-sub-related) combat.

[Panther]

@8thGuards said in Submarine vs submarine (surprise strikes):

Question regarding submarines.

If a lone submarine attacks another lone submarine, both obviously have the option to either surprise strike or submerge.

Yes, rulebook Pacific 1940.2 page 19:

…Before the general sea battle takes place (steps 3–5), both
attacking and defending submarines can choose to either make
a Surprise Strike die roll or submerge. …

(Step 2 of the combat sequence describes it in detail.)

Suppose both decide to surprise strike, if the attacker hits, does the defending submarine still get its surprise strike?

Yes.

And can submarines eliminate each other that way?

Yes.

Or does the surprise strike only count against surface warships?

No.

[Caesar-Seriona]

The problem is that the reason why Surprise Strike vs Surprise Strike doesn’t happen because it would be a paradox in terms. Either the defender tries to combat which they are weakened since Subs defend at 1 but attack at 2. So the logical move is to submerge.

[taamvan]

@Caesar-Seriona Right. The sub would rarely stand and fight when a destroyer is not present, in the vast majority of cases, it would be better to hide and then on your next turn, counterattack or run further away.

I compare this one to the Magic the Gathering Rule that; Blocking with a creature with First Strike cancels the “First Striking” nature of the damage to that creature…First Strike cancels First Strike.

[General 6 Stars]

But a sub should get to block like a destroyer. It’s at periscope depth and ready to attack.

[taamvan]

@SS-GEN It does block the combat move of an unescorted transport…it seems too cheap to allow it to restrict movement. Maybe you could treat it like Mines in WW1/AAA in Classic (the sub gets some incidental shot, ,maybe just at a transport, as you pass through)

[General 6 Stars]

Oh Killin me. It should get a free shot. FS no destroyer in fleet, Then dive. If destroyer present then gets a depth charge drop attack.

[Caesar-Seriona]

Submarines don’t get to block because of how they operate in warfare.

[General 6 Stars]

That’s fine.

[General 6 Stars]

G40 :anguished: