Make paratrooper unit standard in 1940 Global Bal Mod

@SS-GEN @simon33 @Imperious-Leader , if in any case a paratrooper should only have a +2 in the first round, after that the Moment of surprise has vanished and he will attack as a reg Inf. @1 only and @2 paired with arty.
That would make more sense to me according to the map.

True. This is based on what game you have and your paratrooper values. Some games give a paratrooper +1 Attack first round only on a landing.

@SS-GEN said in Make paratrooper unit standard in 1940 Global Bal Mod:

@simon33 My reply was based on Paratroopers landing alone with no other troops moving into the same territory that turn.
I can see the confusion there if I got it right.

The current rule is that units have to move in by other means. I did question if he was saying to remove that rule. I for one wouldn’t be a fan of such a change.

@simon33 said

The current rule is that units have to move in by other means. I did question if he was saying to remove that rule. I for one wouldn’t be a fan of such a change.

Other means are ground troops and or Amphibious landings ?

@aequitas-et-veritas Well then there is no real benefit at all! Attacking at 2 in the first round only is not any real need for this unit. Nations train these elite units for years and once they are gone , its hard to reform from cadre. The value of the paratrooper can not be dismissed as a +1 first round only nonsense. I still prefer a 3,2,1+ deal.

@Imperious-Leader said in Make paratrooper unit standard in 1940 Global Bal Mod:

@aequitas-et-veritas Well then there is no real benefit at all! Attacking at 2 in the first round only is not any real need for this unit. Nations train these elite units for years and once they are gone , its hard to reform from cadre. The value of the paratrooper can not be dismissed as a +1 first round only nonsense. I still prefer a 3,2,1+ deal.

Does this include with a art boosting attack +1 to 4,3,2 ?
Or paratroopers only don’t get boost ?

Ha. Most wont agree but I have D12
Inf A2 D4
Par A3 D4 FSR only A2 D4
Elite A4 D2

You can transport elites too. Just trying to get a 3 different combo for certain situations
Also you can only buy 2 of each ( para or elite ) or 1 of each per turn so there’s no over kill

IL way is no bonus for artillery, unless its downgraded to infantry. +3 first round ( surprise and elite weapons) +2 second round ( running out of supplies, but still potent), and+1 rest of rounds. The idea is dropping them farther than adjacent areas so artillery wont be a factor or bonus.

Cost to upgrade from infantry already built should be 2 IPC and limits either based on totals per side being equal, or Historical ( somewhat balanced), or limited by bombers, or IPC ( each 10 IPC can raise 1 paratrooper-example)

@Imperious-Leader said in Make paratrooper unit standard in 1940 Global Bal Mod:

@aequitas-et-veritas Well then there is no real benefit at all! Attacking at 2 in the first round only is not any real need for this unit. Nations train these elite units for years and once they are gone , its hard to reform from cadre. The value of the paratrooper can not be dismissed as a +1 first round only nonsense. I still prefer a 3,2,1+ deal.

My statement was Paras attack @3 Round 1 and then become a straight Inf and attack @1 and later can be paired with Arty like an Inf and attack @2.

But I start to like your idea of an 3,2,1.
Best example was the attack on Eben-Emael where German Paras attacked a fortress.
The longer the fight took place the more their attacking moral/power swindeled down.
So ya, you might be on the right track with 3,2,1.

Thanks IL. Gonna look further into this.
D12
Para 3,2,1
Elite 4,3,2
No art support period. Cost 2 icps to upgrade inf max 2 per turn

Ha ha. If Battleships and Cruisers shore shots give the para a +1 on Attack FSR only. Lol

Even though paratroopers without amphibious or overland support does have historical precedent such as Crete, the degree of abstraction in axis and allies makes it impractical to stimulate this. I feel it would add negative value. If realism really bothers you, an air transport unit would be the first place I would go.

As I mentioned give each country a Air Transport plane on setup at there Capital only.
You can promote 1 Inf to a Paratrooper (cost 2) per turn only for starters.
You can buy more Air Transports if you want.
Air Transports C10 M4-5 FAB AD0 Can take as a Casualty.
Paratrooper C2 A2 first round only. Then A1 D2 Art +1 on A
or go with IL’s idea with no Art boost or support.
Paratrooper A3 first round, A2 second round and then A1 rest of rounds. D2

Start with something and test play and tweak as you go on.

We use Paratroopers and Elites in my game and there being used by all countries.
Malta, Norway, Crete, Pacific Islands, Dutch Islands, can openers and blocker landings.
Also Air Transports can transport 2 Para or Elites.
But I would keep it to 1 if you think 2 is to strong for Germany.
At least with 2 you have a better chance (some support helps) to take and control an Island.

@FMErwinRommel
Yea i found adding the “Air Transport” to work well for what you want to do. Especially against undefended Med islands.

I would be interested in Test playing. I just don’t know how to tweak or perform it here on triple a.

Yeah, if reasonable price points could be developed, I would be keen to see this in balanced mod. Also, just have one paratrooper per air transport. Ideally the aa guns would shoot at the transports and the troops would die if hit. I reckon 4ipc per paratroop would be about right. Or do you think it should be more?

One more thing. I wouldn’t bother with upgrading units to become paratroopers, just recruit paratroopers from scratch. Or provide both. If it took longer to get a paratrooper than a battleship that would be ridiculous.

Now as for the idea of having different capabilities per nation, death to your feeble plan!

@simon33 said in Make paratrooper unit standard in 1940 Global Bal Mod:

Now as for the idea of having different capabilities per nation, death to your feeble plan!

heh heh :)

@aequitas-et-veritas said in Make paratrooper unit standard in 1940 Global Bal Mod:

I would be interested in Test playing. I just don’t know how to tweak or perform it here on triple a.

It might be a little different but you can do this in “Global 40 House Rules” under " Experimental" in triplea.

Elite is a A2 D2 M1 +1M w/tank (can blitz with tank), C5 unit. It may be transported by Cruisers and Battleships on a 1:1 basis. It may be Air Transported into combat or ncm by Air transports on a 1:1 basis

Air Transport is a A0 D0 M5 +1 w/AB C6 unit. It may transport Elite units in either combat move or ncm on a 1:1 basis. May be taken as casualty.

Select Map Option “Elite and Air Transport” before game start.

Also air transports should neither attack nor defend. Just have them taken last a0 d0 like sea transports.

The mod squad do not want any setup changes so this would be not on the board at the start.

@simon33
yea sorry forgot this BM thread. BM is on “House Rules” too, so you can still try it, need to fix the china AAgun not allowing guerrillas, keep forgetting :) but w/e : )
I can’t remember how they work for certain, they don’t attack or defend but are taken as casualty. Can take them before last if I remember right. Just the way triplea worked i think. The Air Transports

Oh yea. Caucasus seemed pretty vulnerable, but that’s a big investment by Adolf. Idk, leave that up to you smart Players :)

Ok, looking at the elite/air transport in the House rules, there’s a few aspects I don’t like. First one being air transports participating in the ground battle. Is that a boo boo? I also find it weird that when you click an air transport it asks how many but I guess you can live with this. Also that the attack is possible without being combined with overland or amphibious units. This rule was correct in Axis and Allies and shouldn’t have been changed. I’m guessing that to support that rule the attack needs to be made in the airborne combat move phase. Might not be that easy to get it working the way I want.

I also dislike that elites can be paired with tanks and blitz. Where did their vehicles come from?