• @kcdzim:

    @Kjakan:

    What happens if there’s 1 sub vs 1 sub?

    Subs on both sides get to fire before other units, unless a destroyer is present to cancel the “surprise strike”.  So when each sub has the option to roll, they can either roll or submerge. The attacking sub gets the option of submerging immediately or rolling to attack. If the attacking sub rolls and hits, the defending sub still has a chance to roll.  If the attacking sub misses, the defending sub has the option to submerge or roll itself.  More than likely, it will choose to submerge, as it has a better chance of hitting on the attack.

    Is this correct?  If no destroyers are present, both the attacking and defending subs have first strike, which means they decide whether to shoot or submerge before any dice are rolled.  They can also submerge anytime they can fire.  So does that mean that the defending sub scan submerge?  If so, you could never hit a lone sub with another lone sub (unless the defender unwisely decides to shoot back and hope to hit on a 1).  Someone explained that to me in a game and I am still not sure that is correct.  It sounds like a loophole to me.


  • @Vance:

    Is this correct?  If no destroyers are present, both the attacking and defending subs have first strike, which means they decide whether to shoot or submerge before any dice are rolled.  They can also submerge anytime they can fire.  So does that mean that the defending sub scan submerge?  If so, you could never hit a lone sub with another lone sub (unless the defender unwisely decides to shoot back and hope to hit on a 1).  Someone explained that to me in a game and I am still not sure that is correct.  It sounds like a loophole to me.

    The defending sub cannot submerge until it has a chance to roll, which is in the defenders round of die rolling.  It cannot submerge until after the attacking sub has either rolled a die or chosen to submerge itself.

    So in sub on sub battles, attacking subs have a single round of combat - that first die roll -  to inflict maximum casualties before the defending subs will MOST LIKELY choose to submerge when they get to roll for defense.

  • Official Q&A

    Sorry, kcdzim, but that’s incorrect.  Submerging is done before any dice are rolled by either side.  Vance has it right.


  • Once again, thank you Krieghund.


  • d’oh.


  • For what its worth kcdzim, i read the the rule just as you did.  But the moral is subs USUALLY can’t hit subs without a destroyer.


  • Subs CAN hit subs without a destroyer.

    If you attack my 4 subs with your 2 subs, I may not submerge my subs, but allow them to fight.  If it starts to go badly for me, then on any given round I can submerge my subs.

    What you should say, is you need a destroyer to prevent your opponent from having the option to submerge.

    Also, you don’t need a destroyer screen to protect your carriers.  Other boats, even subs, may do just fine.  It’s just that without the destroyer, your aircraft can’t hit the subs.

    To further clarify the issue of when subs submerge:
    kcdzim is correct that subs can submerge when they would otherwise fire - he read that in the rulebook.
    However, as krieghund pointed out, defending subs can submerge before any round of combat as well, as long as there is no opposing destroyer present.  So if your opponent takes off his last destroyer in a given round of combat, your subs will have all their abilities back in the next round (could immediately submerge before the next round).
    Put another way, if you attack my 1 sub with your 1 (or more) sub(s), I can submerge before you roll any dice.  So defending subs are invincible if the attacker has no destroyers, unless the defender chooses to have his sub(s) defend (roll dice).


  • OK so technically the defender can decide to fight back with the subs and hope to hit on a 1.


  • @Vance:

    OK so technically the defender can decide to fight back with the subs and hope to hit on a 1.

    Yep. 
    Round by round decision. 
    There are many situations where it makes sense to leave your defending subs in a fight when not required.  And sometimes even when it’s subs on subs.  You…. haven’t played much?


  • @Kjakan:

    What happens if there’s 1 sub vs 1 sub?

    We were talking about 1 sub versus 1 sub.


  • @Vance:

    We were talking about 1 sub versus 1 sub.

    Sure, I understand.  But what if the defending sub is in a zone with a transport?  Now you have a decision to make.


  • Well, yes in that case if you need that transport then it’s desperation time so roll and hope for the 1.  But he was asking about 1 sub versus 1 sub; not 1 sub versus 1 sub plus a transport, or 1 sub plus 10 transports or whatever.


  • @Vance:

    Well, yes in that case if you need that transport then it’s desperation time so roll and hope for the 1.  But he was asking about 1 sub versus 1 sub; not 1 sub versus 1 sub plus a transport, or 1 sub plus 10 transports or whatever.

    Transports have no combat value, so having a transport in the defending zone is still basically a sub v. sub scenario.

    Have it your way - even without transports, there may be (somewhat rare) circumstances in which a player would wish to fight with a defending sub against an attacking sub.

    Point is, subs can be sunk without destroyers, when the defender wishes to fight.  And you have to admit it’s a good point I made that one such circumstance in sub vs. sub would be to defend a transport (or 10 transports).


  • Sure, or how about you’re playing UK and the subs are in z109 and the attacker is Germany and its his last sub and you are playing OOB.


  • @Vance:

    Sure, or how about you’re playing UK and the subs are in z109 and the attacker is Germany and its his last sub and you are playing OOB.

    Yes - good example.  To earn the no German subs NO.


  • There are probably a thousand situations.  that’s what makes the game so good - all the odd things that can happen


  • @Gamerman01:

    @Vance:

    We were talking about 1 sub versus 1 sub.

    Sure, I understand.  But what if the defending sub is in a zone with a transport?  Now you have a decision to make.

    So to follow up on, and clarify, Gamerman01’s interesting hypothetical:  if you have a SUB accompanying a TRANSPORT, and an ENEMY SUB attacks, is the defending sub locked in to combat w/o the option to submerge, because in submerging, the defending sub would leave the transport a sitting duck…?

  • '18 '17 '16

    No you can submerge. The dudes on the transport will be giving you the finger as they sink to the bottom of the sea though. It would be more likely if you had a sub and a transport and you were attacked by 3 or more subs. Then you know you’re likely to lose and then you would submerge to at least save the sub instead of losing both.

  • '17 '16 '15 '14 '12

    time warp

  • 2023 '22 '21 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15

    Another fun fact

    If you have only subs attacking, lets say a destroyer and some subs, then the defending subs get to fire surprise strikes against the attacking subs. In this case the attacker has no surprise strikes. Makes sense but I was somewhat surprised the first time i found out. Basically surprise defense

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