2017 League General Discussion Thread

Amon-Sul

Which are the standings for axis vs allies in 2017 bm league?

which are better?

gamerman01

You can see Axis vs. Allies results for BM in the columns at the far right. You can see the totals for each individual player and who they played. Grand totals at the bottom. Over-all the Allies are 130-117, but you can interpret details in different ways.

gamerman01

130-118 now
You really have to look at the details, because some of these games where a player was overmatched, it didn’t matter what side he played, he was going to lose. I’ll do a quick number crunch of games excluding matches between players 2 or more tiers apart from each other.

gamerman01

Here is the data between opponents in the same tier or only 1 tier difference:
Tier M with Axis 8-4 .667
Tier M with Allies 13-5 .722

Tier E with Axis 18-20 .474
Tier E with Allies 13-14 .481

Tier 1 with Axis 35-28 .556
Tier 1 with Allies 38-29 .567

Tier 2 with Axis 22-36 .379
Tier 2 with Allies 27-32 .458

Tier 3 with Axis 2-5 .286
Tier 3 with Allies 2-5 .286

Interestingly, none of the tiers did better with the Axis than the Allies
Looks to me like the Allies have an edge.

Adam514

What’s also interesting is that tier 1 has a better win % than tier E!

simon33

@Adam514:

What’s also interesting is that tier 1 has a better win % than tier E!

Maybe E players play M players disproportionately.

JDOW

Yep, this should be the reason, I guess the population is a bit cut in half. Tier M players usually do only play players ranging from Tier M to 1, because otherwise even a win would drop their PPG. While a Tier 1 players usually play everyone.
Thus, in fact, if you play only the top competition you need only few wins to become Tier E.

gamerman01

@Adam514:

What’s also interesting is that tier 1 has a better win % than tier E!

This is because this data is only for opponents within 1 tier.

Tier E data includes playing tier M, tier E, and tier 1
Tier 1 data includes playing tier E, tier 1, and tier 2

The analysis was to look at whether the Axis or Allies win more, not to compare tiers.

Karl7

Having played the most BM games second only to Simon (I think that’s right), I’d say there is an Allied advantage. Not huge or fatal, but one that grows over the course of the game. If the Axis get stalled early, it’s probably lights out.

Instead of bid for Axis, I’d say Axis should get maybe a mulligan for G1 or something. In my current game w/Wheatbeer, Germany AND Italy got badly mauled by dice setting them too far back probably for victory. A mulligan or reroll for Axis only would go a long way to countering this.

Gargantua

@Karl7:

Having played the most BM games second only to Simon (I think that’s right), I’d say there is an Allied advantage. Not huge or fatal, but one that grows over the course of the game. If the Axis get stalled early, it’s probably lights out.

Instead of bid for Axis, I’d say Axis should get maybe a mulligan for G1 or something. In my current game w/Wheatbeer, Germany AND Italy got badly mauled by dice setting them too far back probably for victory. A mulligan or reroll for Axis only would go a long way to countering this.

Wheatbeer is enjoying the taste of those tears hahaha

Karl7

@Gargantua:

@Karl7:

Having played the most BM games second only to Simon (I think that’s right), I’d say there is an Allied advantage. Not huge or fatal, but one that grows over the course of the game. If the Axis get stalled early, it’s probably lights out.

Instead of bid for Axis, I’d say Axis should get maybe a mulligan for G1 or something. In my current game w/Wheatbeer, Germany AND Italy got badly mauled by dice setting them too far back probably for victory. A mulligan or reroll for Axis only would go a long way to countering this.

Wheatbeer is enjoying the taste of those tears hahaha

I hope it tastes like pilsner…

simon33

@Karl7:

Having played the most BM games second only to Simon (I think that’s right), I’d say there is an Allied advantage. Not huge or fatal, but one that grows over the course of the game. If the Axis get stalled early, it’s probably lights out.

Instead of bid for Axis, I’d say Axis should get maybe a mulligan for G1 or something. In my current game w/Wheatbeer, Germany AND Italy got badly mauled by dice setting them too far back probably for victory. A mulligan or reroll for Axis only would go a long way to countering this.

I would concur about the Allies having the edge, at least against the standard Axis strategy of G3/J2 DOW. I would wonder if a G2 DOW would work out better with the changes in BM3 but I haven’t mastered the nuances of this move; far from it before anyone says so.

I still feel that there is an advance in Allied strategy possible, I just haven’t mastered the nuances. I would tend to doubt too many advances for the Axis; their strategy is well developed.

Can’t say I like the idea of a mulligan. I’d much rather just trim back some of the extra Allied NOs in BM.

gamerman01

@simon33:

Can’t say I like the idea of a mulligan. I’d much rather just trim back some of the extra Allied NOs in BM.

Yeah, I agree with you, although Karl’s right that the round 1 dice are major, no matter what version you’re playing

There was a modest over-compensation for the Axis advantage of 2nd edition, which is what I thought when I first saw the BM rules and has been proven true. Just play without a couple of NO’s, which is what I’ve done before.

Prime candidates for removal, in my opinion
+3 for India for the Indian Ocean subs etc
+5 for USA for North Africa
+3 or +6 for Russia’s Persia route
Undo the China changes and give them the +6 NO back
+3 UK Malta Cyprus Med NO

I’m not saying remove all of them at once, just a few examples off the top of my head for Allied advantages that could be rolled back to get closer to balanced. I mean, as opposed to bidding units, bid for NO removal, is my suggestion.

simon33

Getting rid of the Chinese guerrilla fighters however desirable that might be is not really an evolution in BM though. It’s really a restart of the mod. I don’t think that would get off the ground given how happy people are with the mod.

BTW, Persia is only +2/+4.

I’d keep the +2 for Persia, just remove the Japan DOW bonus from it and Archangel. I’d also keep UK Malta/Crete/Cyprus.

Totally agree on USA North Africa! What’s the basis of that idea anyway?

gamerman01

You think one of the reasons people are happy with the mod is the Chinese guerilla fighters? I doubt it :-)

gamerman01

@simon33:

Totally agree on USA North Africa! What’s the basis of that idea anyway?

Well, it does encourage historical play

Adam514

Without the North Africa NO US is basically the same as vanilla US for half the match.

It contributes to making the Med interesting since usually Axis leaves the French North African territories alone. Now there’s something more to consider.

Karl7

Hmm, I’d say the Chinese guerrillas are the one thing that could be paired back. It is a super pain in the ass for Japan and ties up a ton of units beyond reason– 12 terr=36IPCs of inf to keep it quelled.

If getting rid of that it is undesirable, maybe you could give the Axis 1 more NO out of the gate? I know that’s like adding more weight to balance the foundering ship. But maybe give Germany a +5 for Romania or something? Romania was far more important IMO than Norway.

Also, for fun, give Axis +5 for control of London. Getting rid of that NO was insane. Does anyone doubt that capturing London would have been one of the greatest Axis achievements ever? Larry obviously understood its importance in that its capture rescinds the US,USSR diplomatic restrictions. So why then take away the NO? Defeating the UK should be a monumental achievement of allied shattering consequence!

Adam514

@Karl7:

Hmm, I’d say the Chinese guerrillas are the one thing that could be paired back. It is a super pain in the ass for Japan and ties up a ton of units beyond reason– 12 terr=36IPCs of inf to keep it quelled.

If getting rid of that it is undesirable, maybe you could give the Axis 1 more NO out of the gate? I know that’s like adding more weight to balance the foundering ship. But maybe give Germany a +5 for Romania or something? Romania was far more important IMO than Norway.

Also, for fun, give Axis +5 for control of London. Getting rid of that NO was insane. Does anyone doubt that capturing London would have been one of the greatest Axis achievements ever? Larry obviously understood its importance in that its capture rescinds the US,USSR diplomatic restrictions. So why then take away the NO? Defeating the UK should be a monumental achievement of allied shattering consequence!

You may want to reread the NOs regarding London :wink:.

variance

What if ungarrisoned Chinese territories become Chinese at the start of China’s turn, but no infantry on them.

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