The Allied “playbook” thread is here
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/32557/we-need-an-allied-playbook?_=1624678622014

I’m sure I’ll get some negative feedback for this…but that thread rambles. It’s long and much of it is counterproductive arguments since as there are often unstated assumptions in each person’s post that cause confusion.

Bottom line: it’s hard to definitively say what is best for allies other than defend initially until you can get your forces mobilized.

Best option is just to play several games and try out some of the strategies. It is just a game…win some …lose some.

Cheers,
Yeah its Friday, I’ll have a beer.

@Franklin_Cain The problem with a 6+5 rule is that the Axis are almost always at or near 11 cities after 6 rounds. Germany with a simple crush Russia assault should have Novgorod (Leningrad), France, Germany, Poland + Italy has Rome = 5 with Volgograd as the relatively easy 6th VC. Japan has Japan, Kiangsu, Kwangtung, Philippines, and with some effort India = 5.

If the Axis don’t have to get those extra cities (8 Europe or 6 Pacific), then they don’t have to extend themselves to get the “last” VC. India is a stretch for Japan, but not terrible if that is all they need. They can afford to lose a few aircraft if they never have to go get Australia or Hawaii. Similarly, the Germans can easily take Volgograd and leave Moscow alone. The Russians don’t have the flexibility to defend both against the Germans so one of them will fall.

Bumping up the number to 7+5 is still putting a lot of pressure on the Allies. The Germans should be able to takedown Moscow by maintaining a good focus in the East. The Allies might be able to defend Egypt and have a sizeable force in the Middle East, but they may not (probably won’t) initially be in a position to takeback Volgograd immediately after the fall of Moscow. So again the Axis “win” without really having to exert themselves. The magic number of 8 was developed after lots of game testing and is a surprisingly good rule.

That all said, changing the VC count is another way (besides the bid) to level the playing field between players of dissimilar abilities. If you wanted to let the newer player take the Axis and lower the VC count, then you could have a competitive game.

Completely agree with @trulpen. Sure it’s a little complicated, but it really is an effective barrier for both sides. A great compromise = both sides lose equally, and this is in that category.

I find it funny y’all are trying to race to the bottom to con(vince) someone into giving you a game.

@Stucifer @Avner @AldoRaine @mikawagunichi @pacifiersboard
All, just FYI, I’ll be on vacation starting Tues and be back at the end of the week. I’ll gladly play up until then with whoever posts. Otherwise, I’ll talk to y’all in a few days.

So played a few games and in the middle of a few more, so my sample size for PTV is small, but I have a few observations that i’m curious what the group thinks about.

a) Adding the SZ around Malaya really does nerf the Japanese threat on India. Only a prolonged build up can win there–which I think was the idea: to make a longer game, i.e. one that isn’t really decided until T14+…but that leads to my other point
b) Italy must be defended well by the Germans. In OOB or BM4, you can solely focus on Russia as Germany and just use the Italians as can openers. If the Allies nerf Italy, eh, annoying, but not game changing since Russia will fall soon.
–That doesn’t happen in PTV. Russia may fall, but barring bad play by the Russians (or maybe I’m just terrible with the Germans), Moscow will hold for 12 turns. There’s just a lot of territory and the Russians have enough IPCs to stay in the fight for awhile. Thus, the Allies have plenty of time to control the Med and nerf the Italians. Add to the fact that Italy is an extra space away from France and W. Germany–critical to getting defensive troops into place, and Italy becomes indefensible

It seems the Axis got a triple whammy. No quick wins, and the added spaces make the defense of their areas that much harder, and yet the southern spaces are still easy to reach for the Allies. This means that it’s hard to get economic parity, and a long game that favors the Allies.

My point is that unlike OOB or BM4, it seems like there is a “formula” for the Allies to win PTV. Build up Russia, attack the Med, nerf the Italians, pick at the hard to defend Med landing zones, and wait until the money disparity allows you to just win attrition wars, which leads to overwhelming forces.

To stop this, the Germans have to spend Moscow invasion money early on bolstering Italy, which further delays Moscow falling and plays into the Allies hands.

I would say that Japan does ameliorate the above somewhat. They still cannot take India quickly, but they can grow rather large and dominant on the ocean, which could prevent an overwhelming force in the Med. But again, playing for the long game, the Allies just keep enough in the pacific to stay alive, nerf Italy and the game should go their way.

Can openers for Italy and Germany, I can speak to. The concept is as you stated: a teammate, who goes before you, clears out blockers so that the main force can rapidly advance. Italy can “can open” for Germany because (usually) there are no ANZAC or French forces in the Eastern front. Russia can’t put single inf in territories to try and stop the German mobile units from two step advances because the italian force will kill it. The Russians must either put many units as blockers, which Germany will gladly kill since fewer units now protect Moscow, or retreat and turtle, which is also good.
As you get closer to Moscow, having the Italians take a territory may not allow 2 step advance, but the Germans can now reinforce with aircraft, which often prevents a Russian counter, and so the German advance continues.

Incorporating the Italians into your Eastern front is a key enabling tactic for the Axis.

As far as a British “reverse can opener”… as i see it, you are right, this shouldn’t work for helping the Russians, since Germany moves first and would avoid any counter attack. The US can can open for Brits.

Perhaps, a reverse can opener is reblocking what the can opener forces cleared. In which case, you would need ANZAC or French forces to take out the Italians and establish control/ block. The Brits don’t move at the right time to make this happen.

@axis-dominion Agreed. I very much enjoyed my games with @trulpen. Beers tonight in memoriam.

I’m not sure what you plan to gain from the DD that helps the Russians.
Mostly, the first turn the germans attack the Russians they don’t need the fighters, so they are free to sink ships. One more DD doesn’t change that.

The germans can transport men north unimpeded until they attack, so you aren’t stopping any German reinforcements.

Maybe I’m a poor German player, but i don’t focus on the Baltic. Just go overland until Russia is destroyed.

@axis-dominion While we are at it, I think AA should also get a tweak. Either 4 shots, or reduced cost to 3 or 4, possibly both.

It appears that the cost of a AA unit was set to 5 so that after buying 2 AA, one would likely kill 1 ftr, if attacked by 6 ftrs, and the battle would be a wash TUV. But that does not account for the rapid movement of ftrs vs AA so that one almost never buy AA.
Increasing their lethality would make for more tactical unit buys on defense. Especially in the late game where everyone seems to rely on massive air fleets to dominate a region.

TripleA Turn Summary: Russians round 1

TripleA Turn Summary for game: WW2 Path to Victory

Game History

Round: 1

    Purchase Units - Russians
        Russians buy 3 artilleries and 8 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Russians

    Combat - Russians

    Non Combat Move - Russians
        3 infantry moved from Amur to Siberia
        3 infantry moved from Buryatia to Sakha
        1 aaGun moved from Sakha to Siberia
        5 infantry moved from Sakha to Siberia
        3 infantry moved from Baltic States to Northern Belarus
        2 infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Southern Belarus
        1 infantry moved from Southern Belarus to Northern Belarus
        3 infantry moved from Ukraine to Kursk
        2 infantry moved from Bessarabia to Ukraine
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Western Ukraine to Ukraine
        1 armour and 1 mech_infantry moved from Stalingrad to Kursk
        1 armour and 1 mech_infantry moved from Russia to Bryansk
        1 artillery moved from Russia to Bryansk
        1 infantry moved from Russia to Bryansk
        1 infantry moved from Archangel to Vologda
        2 infantry moved from Karelia to Archangel
        3 infantry moved from Vyborg to Leningrad
        1 cruiser moved from 118 Sea Zone to 117 Sea Zone
        6 infantry moved from Leningrad to Northern Belarus
        1 artillery moved from Leningrad to Northern Belarus
        1 tactical_bomber moved from Russia to Leningrad
        2 aaGuns moved from Russia to Bryansk
        1 submarine moved from 130 Sea Zone to 128 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from Southern Caucasus to Northern Caucasus
        1 fighter moved from Russia to Leningrad

    Place Units - Russians
        2 artilleries placed in Siberia
        1 artillery and 2 infantry placed in Leningrad
        3 infantry placed in Ukraine
        3 infantry placed in Stalingrad
        Russians undo move 4.
        1 infantry placed in Russia
        1 infantry placed in Russia
        1 infantry placed in Stalingrad

    Turn Complete - Russians
        Russians collect 46 PUs; end with 46 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Savegame

TripleA Turn Summary: Italians round 10

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3

Game History

Round: 10

    Purchase Units - Italians
        Italians buy 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Italians
        1 infantry moved from Southern Italy to Northern Italy
              Italians take Northern Italy from Americans
        1 infantry moved from Bulgaria to Yugoslavia
        3 fighters moved from Southern Italy to Yugoslavia

    Combat - Italians
        Battle in Yugoslavia
            Italians attack with 3 fighters and 1 infantry
            Americans defend with 1 infantry
                Italians roll dice for 3 fighters and 1 infantry in Yugoslavia, round 2 : 1/4 hits, 1.67 expected hits
                Americans roll dice for 1 infantry in Yugoslavia, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Americans lost in Yugoslavia
            Italians win, taking Yugoslavia from Americans with 3 fighters and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Americans: 1 infantry

    Non Combat Move - Italians
        3 fighters moved from Yugoslavia to Southern Italy
        1 armour and 1 mech_infantry moved from Bessarabia to Bulgaria

    Place Units - Italians
        1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry placed in Southern Italy

    Turn Complete - Italians
        Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 9
            Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 97 Sea Zone. Rolls: 2,5,4,3,3,1,1,3,2,2,6,5
        Italians collect 7 PUs (9 lost to blockades); end with 7 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Americans regular : -0.33
Italians regular : -0.67

Savegame

Testing Forum poster

Test summary from TripleA, engine version: 2.6.14778, time: 7:33:26 PM
Savegame

@aequitas-et-veritas Scramble to Normandy.
No scramble to SZ113

@aequitas-et-veritas GL HF! Let’s get ready to rumble!

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: Germans round 1

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: WW2 Path to Victory

Game History

Round: 1

    Purchase Units - Germans

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Savegame

Testing Forum poster

Test summary from TripleA, engine version: 2.6.14778, time: 8:35:28 AM
Savegame

@Ghostglider No scramble.
1 Kamikazi

@Ghostglider I got surprisingly lucky in India.

TripleA Turn Summary: Japanese round 10

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3

Game History

Round: 10

    Purchase Units - Japanese
        Japanese buy 1 destroyer, 3 fighters, 2 infantry, 1 mech_infantry, 2 submarines and 1 tactical_bomber; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 6 SuicideAttackTokens; 

    Combat Move - Japanese
        1 infantry moved from Kwangtung to Kiangsi
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 36 Sea Zone to Kiangsi
        1 submarine moved from 36 Sea Zone to 20 Sea Zone
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 36 Sea Zone to 20 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 36 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
        2 marines moved from Burma to 38 Sea Zone
        2 cruisers and 2 marines moved from 38 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
        2 marines moved from 39 Sea Zone to India
        2 fighters moved from 38 Sea Zone to India
        2 tactical_bombers moved from 38 Sea Zone to India
        1 armour, 4 artilleries, 20 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Burma to India
        3 artilleries and 5 infantry moved from French Indo China to 36 Sea Zone
        3 artilleries, 5 infantry and 4 transports moved from 36 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
        3 artilleries and 5 infantry moved from 39 Sea Zone to India
        1 carrier moved from 38 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
        2 bombers, 3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers moved from French Indo China to India
        1 tactical_bomber moved from 36 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
        3 fighters moved from 36 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from 36 Sea Zone to 20 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from Japan to 17 Sea Zone
        6 infantry moved from Manchuria to Jehol
        1 infantry moved from Manchuria to Jehol
        1 infantry moved from Yenisey to Olgiy
              Japanese take Olgiy from Russians

    Combat - Japanese
        Battle in 17 Sea Zone
            Japanese attack with 1 fighter
            ANZAC defend with 1 transport
                1 transport owned by the ANZAC lost in 17 Sea Zone
            Japanese win with 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
            Casualties for ANZAC: 1 transport
        Battle in 20 Sea Zone
            Japanese attack with 2 fighters, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber
            Americans defend with 1 destroyer
                Japanese roll dice for 1 submarine in 20 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                Americans roll dice for 1 destroyer in 20 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 destroyer owned by the Americans lost in 20 Sea Zone
            Japanese win with 2 fighters, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
            Casualties for Americans: 1 destroyer
        Battle in 35 Sea Zone
            Japanese attack with 3 fighters and 1 submarine
            Americans defend with 1 destroyer; ANZAC defend with 1 transport
                Japanese roll dice for 1 submarine in 35 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 3 fighters in 35 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 1.50 expected hits
                Americans roll dice for 1 destroyer and 1 transport in 35 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 submarine owned by the Japanese lost in 35 Sea Zone
                1 destroyer owned by the Americans lost in 35 Sea Zone
                1 transport owned by the ANZAC lost in 35 Sea Zone
            Japanese win with 3 fighters remaining. Battle score for attacker is 9
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 submarine
            Casualties for Americans: 1 destroyer
            Casualties for ANZAC: 1 transport
        Battle in Kiangsi
            Japanese attack with 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
            Russians defend with 1 infantry
                Japanese roll dice for 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Kiangsi, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 1.33 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 1 infantry in Kiangsi, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Kiangsi
            Japanese win, taking Kiangsi from Chinese with 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
        Battle in Jehol
            Japanese attack with 7 infantry
            Chinese defend with 1 infantry
                Japanese roll dice for 7 infantry in Jehol, round 2 : 3/7 hits, 1.17 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 1 infantry in Jehol, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Chinese lost in Jehol
            Japanese win, taking Jehol from Chinese with 7 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Chinese: 1 infantry
        Battle in India
            Japanese attack with 1 armour, 7 artilleries, 2 bombers, 5 fighters, 25 infantry, 2 marines, 1 mech_infantry and 5 tactical_bombers
            British defend with 2 aaGuns, 6 artilleries, 3 fighters, 21 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers; ANZAC defend with 1 aaGun, 3 fighters and 2 infantry; UK_Pacific defend with 1 airfield, 1 factory_major and 1 harbour
                ANZAC roll AA dice in India : 0/9 hits, 1.50 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 2 cruisers in India, round 2 : 0/2 hits, 1.00 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 armour, 7 artilleries, 2 bombers, 5 fighters, 25 infantry, 2 marines, 1 mech_infantry and 5 tactical_bombers in India, round 2 : 18/48 hits, 16.17 expected hits
                UK_Pacific roll dice for 3 aaGuns, 6 artilleries, 6 fighters, 23 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers in India, round 2 : 17/37 hits, 14.67 expected hits
                17 infantry owned by the Japanese lost in India
                2 aaGuns owned by the British, 1 aaGun owned by the ANZAC and 15 infantry owned by the British lost in India
                Japanese roll dice for 1 armour, 7 artilleries, 2 bombers, 5 fighters, 8 infantry, 2 marines, 1 mech_infantry and 5 tactical_bombers in India, round 3 : 16/31 hits, 13.33 expected hits
                UK_Pacific roll dice for 6 artilleries, 6 fighters, 8 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers in India, round 3 : 8/22 hits, 9.67 expected hits
                8 infantry owned by the Japanese lost in India
                2 infantry owned by the ANZAC, 2 tactical_bombers owned by the British, 6 artilleries owned by the British and 6 infantry owned by the British lost in India
                Japanese roll dice for 1 armour, 7 artilleries, 2 bombers, 5 fighters, 2 marines, 1 mech_infantry and 5 tactical_bombers in India, round 4 : 11/23 hits, 11.00 expected hits
                UK_Pacific roll dice for 6 fighters in India, round 4 : 2/6 hits, 4.00 expected hits
                1 artillery owned by the Japanese and 1 mech_infantry owned by the Japanese lost in India
                3 fighters owned by the ANZAC and 3 fighters owned by the British lost in India
            Japanese captures 8PUs while taking UK_Pacific capital
            Japanese converts factory_major into different units
            Japanese win, taking India from UK_Pacific with 1 armour, 6 artilleries, 2 bombers, 5 fighters, 2 marines and 5 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 107
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 artillery, 25 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
            Casualties for British: 2 aaGuns, 6 artilleries, 3 fighters, 21 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers
            Casualties for ANZAC: 1 aaGun, 3 fighters and 2 infantry
        triggerUKPacificDestroyPUsJapanese: Setting destroysPUs to true for playerAttachment attached to UK_Pacific

    Non Combat Move - Japanese
        5 fighters moved from India to Yunnan
        5 tactical_bombers moved from India to Yunnan
        2 aaGuns moved from Burma to Yunnan
        1 infantry moved from Kwangsi to Yunnan
        1 mech_infantry moved from Kwangtung to Yunnan
        2 bombers moved from India to Yunnan
        2 transports moved from 38 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
        1 carrier moved from 38 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
        3 fighters moved from 35 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
        2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 20 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from Kiangsi to 36 Sea Zone
        1 tactical_bomber moved from Kiangsi to 36 Sea Zone
        3 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Japan to 36 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from 17 Sea Zone to Japan
        2 aaGuns and 4 infantry moved from Manchuria to Jehol
        2 infantry moved from Manchuria to Amur

    Place Units - Japanese
        1 destroyer and 2 submarines placed in 36 Sea Zone
        2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry placed in Kwangtung
        3 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber placed in Japan

    Turn Complete - Japanese
        Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 16
            Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 19 Sea Zone. Rolls: 3,5,4,1,3,5,5,5,3,1,3,5,4,6
            Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 6 Sea Zone. Rolls: 1,6,1,3,6,1,1,5,5,6,3,1,3,1
        Japanese collect 40 PUs (16 lost to blockades); end with 48 PUs
        Objective Japanese 4 Control Dutch East Indies: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 53 PUs
        Objective Japanese 3 Control Honolulu Or Sydney Or Calcutta Or Western United States: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 58 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Chinese regular : -0.67
Americans regular : 0.33
Japanese regular : 4.83
ANZAC AA : -1.50
UK_Pacific regular : -1.33

Savegame