• they can retreat after 1 round of combat, so damage the carrier and retreat if the 1 fighter hits

  • '13

    So the RUS fighter gets one round defending against the toothless Allied ships, the Allies can retreat both the Carrier and the loaded Transports after the first round of combat, and the planes all have to attack Novgorod for at least a single round (they have committed to the fight but their amphib was just called off) before they too can retreat.

    Correct?

  • '13

    Sorry - toothless Axis ships :P


  • sounds legit


  • @Vold:

    So the RUS fighter gets one round defending against the toothless Allied ships, the Allies can retreat both the Carrier and the loaded Transports after the first round of combat, and the planes all have to attack Novgorod for at least a single round (they have committed to the fight but their amphib was just called off) before they too can retreat.

    Correct?

    The carrier and transport should retreat (they’re not required to, but they will eventually die if they don’t).  The planes are required to roll for one round of combat before they too can retreat.


  • The Carrier is not even there.

    Carriers do not accompany their planes in an attack, they move later ( not necc. to the sea zone of attack) and planes land on them during the non-combat phase.

    In this scenario the scrambled fighter destroys all the transports killing everything on them.
    Only the planes are left for the land battle.
    They then die if they can’t land during NCM but the carrier will prob. be there for them by then.


  • the carrier can be moved and take part in combat like any other sea unit.  it can absorb hits all the same, just the main reason why you would not is if you want to keep them safe for the round.


  • Guess that makes sense – but aren’t the transports still committed???

    I thought its “all in” on an amphib assault.

    They will die no matter what why let the carrier die too ??

  • TripleA

    honestly, if you let your opponent make a blunder like that… you may as well not even play. There are lots of rules to global, got to remind people.

    just think about it… he probably thought A) wtf is this scrambling shiz? B) his fighters would engage in the seazone before going to nov. Either way people don’t like global because it is too much rules to read through before you can play… most people dive in and see how it goes, from those dude’s perspective I would just say, “ok I am done with this game.”

    Axis and allies is easy to play as far as basic overall strategy goes, obviously the axis are going for capitals and stuff along the way. Even the math is easy to learn, more stuff = higher probability of more hits = stuff dies faster = less casualties.

    Then there is about 205 pages of FAQ to go through, which makes learning the game a chore.

    Give the guy a break.


  • @Darby:

    Guess that makes sense – but aren’t the transports still committed???

    I thought its “all in” on an amphib assault.

    They will die no matter what why let the carrier die too ??

    Read the section of the rulebook on page 19 of the europe rulebook on retreating. If the attacker retreats from a battle, including a sea battle, ALL attacking sea units retreat, including transports.

    The third paragraph  under land combat on page 17 covers this situation pretty well; if the transports retreated from the sea zone, they still have their cargo on board, and any other units committed to the land battle have to fight one round before being eligible to retreat.

    If you are not playing in a tournament game, I would say something to your opponent right at the end of combat move about what your scramble can do to his attack so he or she can change the move.


  • The scrambled Fighter only gets one shot. Therefore it can only sink one transport, if he rolls a hit. The attacker can then choose to retreat (and does!)
    If there had been an Aircraft Carrier it could have  absorbed the one hit and spared the loss of one Transport.
    Only defending Transports are eliminated if attacked and all their escorts are sunk. Not attacking ones unless they are hit.
    The land units would not die because they cannot unload whilst the defender controls the SZ, which he does if a scrambled Fighter is present.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @Gargantua:

    What’s funny, is that after retreating your carrier and transports, without the troops on the ground going into Novgorod… the planes you committed there will most likely die an untimely death.

    Hahaha :D

    Good move by the Russians!

    Correct.  I did something similar once.  He attacked with 7 loaded transports and no defensive ships.  I scrambled 1 fighter and sunk all the loaded transports.

    In this case, since your fighter could not possibly sink the carrier in one round - the carrier (damaged or not) and all loaded transports would be allowed to retreat - or press the attack (which would be stupid, but it is their option!)


  • so if the transports are completely unescorted they all die instantly?  I think that after 1 round, they can retreat.


  • No. -They do not die unless hit if they are the attacker. As you said, attacking units can retreat.

    If they are the defender, then they all  die if unescorted when attacked, because they cannot retreat.


  • @Cmdr:

    @Gargantua:

    What’s funny, is that after retreating your carrier and transports, without the troops on the ground going into Novgorod… the planes you committed there will most likely die an untimely death.

    Hahaha :D

    Good move by the Russians!

    Correct.  I did something similar once.  He attacked with 7 loaded transports and no defensive ships.  I scrambled 1 fighter and sunk all the loaded transports.

    Yeah this should not have happened, unless there was somehow no place for his trns to retreat to. Attacking transports are seldom defenseless, they actually have to be hit unless they cannot retreat from the battle.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    They have to physically retreat.  They loaded in SZ 127 (from Finland) and attempted to land in Novgorod.  There was an American destroyer in SZ 125.  He would have been safe (he had some fighters in Finland and he had purchased an AB there) but he amphibioused without fighter cover (they went for the attack.)  So yes, all transports and their cargo were lost at sea.

  • Sponsor

    The same thing happened to me in the Philippines, with my loaded Japanese transports and an aircraft carrier, we all agreed that it was an automatic kill so I removed them from the board. The extra salt in the wound came just a minute ago when this thread told me that I had retreat options for my loaded transports, because the Allies only had 1 fighter to scramble and my carrier would have soaked a hit.

    Scrambling is a method of tactics and if a team mate of mine ever warned the opposition that a scramble was possible, I would slap them upside the head. How ridicules would I sound if I were playing chess, and told my opponent that I could reach his queen with my bishop if he moved it there?. The rules say that everyone must look for and point out convoy disruptions… so I do, but it doesn’t say anywhere that I have to warn my opponent of my own scramble opportunities.

    I lost all my ships because I messed up, twice if you count the fact that I could have saved my transports by remembering the retreat rules. Thats how I prefer it to go down, because I will never make that mistake again, and my opponents know that I won’t give quarter if they make it, because they to would never forgive an error like that.

    I don’t want to hear this crap about… it’s only a game. I know that and I forgive many mistakes in this “game”. but 2 things are unforgivable…

    1. Making more combat movements, or changing combat movements after declaring that your phase is done.

    2. Trying to make your purchase phase after the resolve combat phase, because you forgot to buy.

    All that stuff I talked about scrambling falls into point #1. You declare where the air units from the carrier will fight during the combat movement phase, on land or in the sea zone, it matters due to the scramble opportunity. If you say land and I scramble my plane from a visible air base to sink all your sh!t… than congratulations, you just learned a lesson.

    When I screwed up I said, “Ok… my combat movement phase is done, now I’m going to resolve combat. There are no strategic bombing raids, but I have 1 amphibious assault in the Philippines before I proceed with general combat, so I will roll for my infantry…” Thats when my opponent said… “Wait… I want to scramble my plane and destroy all your ships”. He didn’t say… “Just so you know… I’m about to scramble my plane and destroy your ships, unless you want to take a few minutes and redo your entire combat movement phase”

    Homy don’t play dat.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    I partially agree with you YG.

    In a league or tournament game, I agree with you whole heartedly.  If you forget to walk into a territory or make a necessary combat move before throwing the dice, then you’re screwed and I don’t want to hear about it.  Sorry, it’s a game for credit and you should know better before getting into the pool with the big boys and girl.

    If it is a game for fun, then I disagree with you.  This is a game for fun, players may be learning, or have a strong relationship with each other.  For instance, if Emperor Mollari (as he was known here) had forgotten to attack S. Ukraine - which was undefended at the time - before throwing dice, or hell, even as he was placing units; then I would have been okay with allowing the move.  Same in reverse, he was never one to stick it too you just because it was the rules (except in league or tournament, as it should be there!)

    What I have come to realize over the years is this:  When you are playing this game for fun, the rules are precisely what you agree they are.  I’ve played many a game where someone buys before moving at all, or even when I played my brother, he would ROUTINELY purchase his units before my turn was even over (he didnt put the money in the bank, but he had them out and ready.)  Of course, back then it was an overpowered strategy for the US to buy a battleship every round (Classic) because Japan (which never got more than 23-30 IPC) could not match them.  We didnt know better, and hell, we got the rules wrong (but they were agreed on!) For instance, we thought a “bridge” with a transport meant unlimited units could use the one transport as long as they started in the same zone and went to the same zone to attack.  (Hey, it was like what, 1990?  1987?  Something like that.)

    Point is, For Fun: means (to me) rules can be relaxed, mistakes can be forgiven - if both sides agree.  League/Tournament: rules are set in stone, you have to stick them to your opponent so that the game is the same as all other games - even playing field.

    Just my two copper coins.  Take it or leave it.

  • Sponsor

    You can have a game for fun with players of equal skill level, and still hold everyone accountable for their mistakes.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @Young:

    You can have a game for fun with players of equal skill level, and still hold everyone accountable for their mistakes.

    Yes, but I usually do not choose to do so.  It depends on who I am playing as well.  For me, having a rules nazi (term appropriate in my mind because we’re talking a game of WWII!) in a game for fun, isn’t fun for me.  That is regardless of if I am a stickler for a rules, or they are.

    Again, league/tournament is different.  These are more “professional” games, in my mind.  Everyone should be thoroughly versed in the rules - and if you make a mistake, well, then too bad!

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