French economy question.



  • Sorry I should know the answer to this but need to clarify with all the rule changes going on. if Paris has fallen, can France continue to collect income on its turn? if they dont have an I.C. they cant place units anyway, right? Or does U.K. suck up whats left of their economy?



  • No income collection for France after Paris falls.


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    So what happens to France and IC,  ground troops, navy if there Liberated?


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    @SS:

    So what happens to France and IC,  ground troops, navy if there Liberated?

    France is a nation like all others, if their capitol is gone, they do not collect income for any territories they control.

    If the allies liberate a French territory while the capitol is in enemy hands, then the liberating nation may take temporary control until the French capitol is liberated, then all territories not controlled by the Axis powers revert to French control and France collects income for them.

    All French units are units, they move on France’s turn and are treated as enemy units by the Axis (except Japan, unless Japan or France declares war, those two nations are at peace!).



  • how about if France falls to Germany then the UK lands units in Southern France(non-combat) does the UK then collect income from Southern France? They did not liberate it since it was not previously conquered.


  • Official Q&A

    No.



  • @Cmdr:

    If the allies liberate a French territory while the capitol is in enemy hands, then the liberating nation may take temporary control until the French capitol is liberated, then all territories not controlled by the Axis powers revert to French control and France collects income for them.

    Okay, what happens if there is a US factory on a French territory and Paris is liberated? do the French gain access to the factory or is it removed?


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    @Enigmatic_Decay:

    @Cmdr:

    If the allies liberate a French territory while the capitol is in enemy hands, then the liberating nation may take temporary control until the French capitol is liberated, then all territories not controlled by the Axis powers revert to French control and France collects income for them.

    Okay, what happens if there is a US factory on a French territory and Paris is liberated? do the French gain access to the factory or is it removed?

    It becomes a French complex.

    Note:  The only time an industrial complex is removed from the board is if a Chinese territory with one is liberated.  At all other times, complexes are captured and not destroyed.



  • Thanks Jen!



  • @Krieghund:

    No.

    Can you explain why this is?

    Is this territory in limbo until Germany or Italy conquer it? Logically it would seem to me that UK would collect theincome if they have units there but I will defer to your expertise of the game.  Please explain though.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    @Flying:

    how about if France falls to Germany then the UK lands units in Southern France(non-combat) does the UK then collect income from Southern France? They did not liberate it since it was not previously conquered.

    @Krieghund:

    No.

    @Flying:

    Can you explain why this is?

    Is this territory in limbo until Germany or Italy conquer it? Logically it would seem to me that UK would collect the income if they have units there but I will defer to your expertise of the game.  Please explain though.

    You cannot conquer territories your allies control regardless of whom your allies are.  The only exception to this rule is if you liberate a territory of an ally who has lost their capitol to a foriegn power.  At that time you may take temporary control of the territory until such time as your ally’s capitol is liberated.

    A common tactic is to not conquer everything you can after you take a capitol to deny your opponent from having the land itself.  For example:
    Germany takes France on Round 1
    Japan does NOT take French Indo-China at any time as now the Indians, Australians and Americans cannot ever collect income for controlling FIC
    or
    Germany takes England on Round 4 but Italy never takes more than just Egypt in Africa (and territories not worth anything) so as to stop the Americans from taking ownership and collecting for them.

    This is called “killing” IPC since no one can collect for those territories then.

    For the record, you cannot use the industrial complexes in these non-conquered, friendly territories who have lost their capitols either.  So in the example of S. France, no one could build at the minor complex there.  However, this is still an allied territory and you may station troops and planes there as well as use any naval or air bases to extend the range of your craft (or scramble).


  • Official Q&A

    What she said.  8-)



  • I think the confusion comes in because in the case of the Dutch East Indies (DEI) the UK & Anzac are allowed to noncombat in to take ownership of the DEI.  Same w/any allied power at war being able to NCM in taking control of pro-allied neutrals. The reason given is that the Netherlands (Holland) isn’t a power in this game (same for pro-allied neutral countries), unlike the French who are a power in G40 w/a capital (who also formed the Vichy gov, that wasn’t friendly to the UK). After the German invasion of the Netherlands (Holland) the Dutch government in exile resided in London, so it is understandable that any Dutch tt’s would be awarded to the UK Commonwealth if they get there first to reinforce it (NCM in).

    I think that if the the allies were allowed to just NCM in to take control of a fallen allied powers tt’s (collect the income) it would swing to much income to the allies and break the game. Plus if your getting paid for all those tt’s why would you Liberate your former allies capital (kinda like how Paris is now). It is better to leave things as they are and they only get paid if they liberate them from the enemy. That makes a pretty good cat & mouse game of how much tt the axis want to take vs how many of them they will be able to hold later on.

    It does open up many questions though about the capital rules, and plunder etc… are they outdated, and need to be looked at. Many want a “Vichy Rule”, or the ability to continue once your capital falls. It would be hard to balance things though IMO, because a government in exile rule would defiantly favor the allies (UK & Russia).


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    @WILD:

    I think that if the the allies were allowed to just NCM in to take control of a fallen allied powers tt’s (collect the income) it would swing to much income to the allies and break the game. Plus if your getting paid for all those tt’s why would you Liberate your former allies capital (kinda like how Paris is now). It is better to leave things as they are and they only get paid if they liberate them from the enemy. That makes a pretty good cat & mouse game of how much tt the axis want to take vs how many of them they will be able to hold later on.

    Â

    If that were the case, then I feel the Axis original TTs should be worth double to Axis powers only.  Sort of like the Russian NO, but reversed.  But yes, I concur with your analysis, in-so-much in regard to Dutch/Netherlands.

    I always viewed that rule as a way to not automatically give the income to England but not deny it to Japan either.  It really only plays in the Pacific campaign, as your only chance to get the income is to invest enough to push Japan out (otherwise, Japan will crush any resistance and take it.)


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