Who thinks there should be an official Atomic Bomb rule????


  • @special:

    So as a house rule an atom bomb could for example destroy an IC (actually remove it from the board)

    I am not sure who that would benefit ?

    Lets say US bombs the major IC in Germany for a full 20 damage every turn, so Germany must spend more than 11 IPC to build one unit (unless the rules are changed again). Now Germany dont need a major IC there, but there are no way to remove it, so they must pay.

    Next turn US drop the A-bomb and the whole major IC is removed from the board. So Germany buy a minor IC, that can only take 6 damage. Unless US nuke Germany every turn, the nazies now pay 4 IPC’s extra for the first unit and not 11 IPC’s extra like when they had a major there.

    So who does the A-bomb benefit ?

  • Customizer

    In terms of damage, I saw a post suggested where an A-Bomb would totally remove an air base, a naval base or a minor IC.  For major ICs, it would reduce them to a fully damaged minor.
    I don’t remember the rules on how to obtain an A-Bomb or A-Bomb technology.
    As far as military terms go, I don’t think we could really use it in this game because the scale is too large.  For example:  The USA gets an A-Bomb and decided to use it on Japan.  The territory of “Japan” is literally the entire country of Japan.  An atomic bomb only destroyes 1 city within a country, not the entire country or all of it’s military units.
    If we wanted to use A-Bombs tactically, perhaps you could say a country using the A-Bomb could pick any 1 unit of the attacker’s choice on the bombed territory and remove it from play.  For example:  Say the USA has A-Bomb tech and attacks Japan.  Japan has 10 inf and 3 fighters.  The USA calls an A-Bomb strike and removes 1 fighter.  That would be more realistic as on the scale of this game, 1 fighter piece would be like an entire fighter wing, which could be destroyed by an A-Bomb.  Of course, you would then have to set rules as to how many A-Bombs could be used in any turn.  Or maybe the USA would have to pay so much for each A-Bomb used.  This would be needed to keep the USA from using 13 A-Bombs and just walking into Japan with 1 infantry.
    Another consideration:  do you want to consider the effects of radiation on a territory hit by one or more A-Bombs?  Like perhaps after an A-Bomb strike, no one can enter that territory for 1 round.  Would that also mean that Japan could not build there for that 1 round?  If they could, that would make USA’s A-Bomb almost useless because Japan would simply replace the units destroyed in last round’s A-Bomb strike.  If not, assuming this is the only IC Japan has, are they simply not allowed to build for that round?  If that were the case, when USA did invade Japan, assuming they win, they would plunder 2 rounds of income instead of just 1.  Perhaps that would be a bonus to compensate for the expense of A-Bombs?


  • @Razor:

    @special:

    So as a house rule an atom bomb could for example destroy an IC (actually remove it from the board)

    I am not sure who that would benefit ?

    Lets say US bombs the major IC in Germany for a full 20 damage every turn, so Germany must spend more than 11 IPC to build one unit (unless the rules are changed again). Now Germany dont need a major IC there, but there are no way to remove it, so they must pay.

    Next turn US drop the A-bomb and the whole major IC is removed from the board. So Germany buy a minor IC, that can only take 6 damage. Unless US nuke Germany every turn, the nazies now pay 4 IPC’s extra for the first unit and not 11 IPC’s extra like when they had a major there.

    So who does the A-bomb benefit ?

    If you bomb a major into desolation, Germany has to pay 11 IPC to build that first unit. If you nuke a major, Germany has to pay at least 12 IPC to build that first unit. After that initial turn, you are right that Germany will be better suited to have a minor and pay a penalty of 4 instead of a major paying a penalty of 11. But it doesn’t end there. Rebuilding a IC means that penalty ends at 12. Bombing a major means 11 IPC penalty, plus 1 for each additional unit.
    Clearly SBRs have the greater potential for economic damage.

    But nukes should be thought of differently. They should have the potential to change a game. Say, lower the IPC value of a territory in addition to severe damage to ICs or units?

  • Customizer

    @MacNaughton:

    But nukes should be thought of differently. They should have the potential to change a game. Say, lower the IPC value of a territory in addition to severe damage to ICs or units?

    Not sure that I would like that idea.  Eventually, you will want to attack and capture that territory.  Wouldn’t you want to get the full value?

    Then again, that could be looked at as a sort of penalty for using A-Bombs in the first place.  Yeah you hurt the enemy and yeah you get the territory, but you don’t get as much for it now.


  • Atomic bomb rules = boring!!!


  • @Rammstein:

    A special Bomber is to be produced that is the Atomic Bomb carrier. It must come from the continental US.

    Just a question to clarify something.  By “It must come from the continental US” I assume you mean that it must be manufactured at an industrial complex in the U.S., and that it must take a number of turns to get within striking range of its targets (to represent refuelling stops along the way)?  I don’t imagine that “It must come from the continental US” means that the bomber flies an SBR mission directly from the continental U.S. to (let’s say) Japan in a single game turn – the equivalent of flying halfway around the world in a single mission.  The B-29, whose range was enormous by WWI standards, could reach Japan from the Mariana Islands (and fly back to its base), but that was pretty much as far as it could go.

    For atomic explosion markers, by the way, these would work nicely:

    http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/108844/sushi-jalapeno-war?size=large

  • Sponsor '17 TripleA '11 '10

    I don’t know that an A-Bomb should destroy military targets directly. I think if a country gets A-Bomb tech, they could somehow use it to permanently reduce the IPC value of a territory. Maybe a straight 1 or 2 points or maybe a die roll. That way you destroy the workforce and infrastructure producing the units. Reducing Japan to 0 IPCs means they would have to transport reinforcements in to defend the capital.

  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Well we have to ask FIRST. What was the biggest effect from the nuclear blasts?

    Economic distruption, Morale disruption, and Civilian DEATH.

    Nuclear weapons at the time were much smaller in scale than the things that were available 10 years to come.

    Hiroshima, and Nagasaki, were targets to BREAK Japanese Morale.  And they did exactly that.

    An A-Bomb rule should do 2 things. 
    1. Massive economic Damage OR Facility removal.
    2. Score whats called a MORALE point.  If you recieve 6 moral points, you LOSE. 
    3. Morale points should be included in major defeats, IE you lose 100 IPC’s MORE equipment in a single battle than your opponent, or something.

    A bombs need to add another scale to the game,  OR just be used as an economic weapon.

    A-BOMB’s:  Your nuclear bomber(s) always do the maximum amount of strategic damage - no dice (6+2 = 8 damage).  It can also do damage above and beyond typical limits (Like airbases have a limit of 6)  If you can do more damage than the value of a facility, said facility is destroyed immediately and permanently.


  • Just to follow up on my earlier post about the atomic explosion markers (black mushroom cloud sculpts) made by Xeno Games, the best sculpts I’ve ever found for use as unexploded atomic bombs are the missile sculpts from the Superpowers game, laid on their sides rather than positioned vertically:

    http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/455412/superpowers

    The missile piece is the big one on the left side of the picture, not the little one on a wheeled undercarriage at the bottom.  The colours in the picture are a bit misleading; the missile sculpts look beige, but they’re actually white.

    I bought Superpowers as a game in itself, so the redeployment of its missiles as A-bombs in an A&A context is just a bonus use.  I suppose, though, that if somebody were to buy the Superpowers game just for those missile sculpts, this would fit nicely with rules that would make A-bombs very expensive to purchase: there are just 8 such sculpts in the game, out of 440 pieces.


  • The main problem with A Bomb rules for this game is that 1) Whoever develops this tech will ultimately win the game. so do the “Hail Mary” dump all iPCs into research and you will most likely win.
    2) The only country that has the resources to do this is the U.S. Even thou Germany and Japan can build their economy up to compete with the U.S. with comprable IPCs. They must use it all up to feed their war machine. Russia will not sit quietly at peace with Germany while Germany is spending all income on a A Bomb.
    Ultimately both these senarios reflect what can and did play out in the real war but will unbalance the game into an unplayable situation.


  • A - bomb not for me. Leave it up to strategy and die rolls and if you need to change up game, play with some NO and Tech. But not A-bomb.


  • ATOMIC BOMB
    Germany and the United States can build A-bombs.  The first A-bomb that is developed by a power costs 500IPCs, and each subsequent A-bomb costs 50IPCs.  An A-bomb is paid for at the Purchase & Repair phase and must be mobilized at a major industrial complex at the Mobilize Units phase.  A-bombs can be moved like artillery (i.e. 1 space per turn on land; 1 infantry and 1 A-bomb can be moved on a transport).  An A-bomb must be delivered by a strategic bomber that takes off from the same territory where the A-bomb was located at the beginning of Combat Movement.  The procedure for delivering an A-bomb is the same as a strategic bombing raid (i.e. bomber and escorts fire, interceptors fire, AA fires, then bomb is dropped).  When the A-bomb is delivered, the attacker rolls 1 die and if the roll is 4 or less the A-bomb detonates successfully.  Any minor industrial complex, naval base or air base in a territory that is hit with an A-bomb is permanently removed and cannot be rebuilt. A major industrial complex that is hit with an A-bomb is reduced to a minor IC with 6 damage points.  The damage points may be repaired for 1IPC each, but the IC can never be upgraded into a major IC.  In addition, the power that receives an A-bomb attack loses 20IPCs to represent the loss of military and civilian morale.

  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    500 IPC’s???

    That’s CRAZY!

    I would rather buy 166 infantry.


  • Well OK 500 might be too much but it was darn expensive.

    I found this in the Cost section of “Manhattan project” on Wikipedia:
    "The project expenditure through 1 October 1945 was $1.845 billion, and was $2.191 billion when the AEC assumed control on 1 January 1947. Total allocation was $2.4 billion. Over 90% of the cost was for building plants and producing the fissionable materials, and less than 10% for development and production of the weapons.

    A total of four weapons (the Trinity gadget, Little Boy, Fat Man, and an unused bomb) were produced by the end of 1945, making the average cost per bomb around $500 million in 1945 dollars. By comparison, the project’s total cost by the end of 1945 was about 90% of the total spent on the production of US small arms (not including ammunition) and 34% of the total spent on US tanks during the same period"

    So take whatever USA typically spends on tanks in a game and multiply that by one third and you should have a historically accurate price for building the infrastructure that is needed to build the first bomb.  Subsequent bombs should cost 10% of whatever that is.


  • @Gargantua:

    500 IPC’s???

    That’s CRAZY!

    I would rather buy 166 infantry.
    [
    /quote]See, Thats exactly what i mean. The odds for Germany developing A Bomb tech is CRAZY! You could buy enough tanks to flatten Russia 10X over.

  • Customizer

    Yeah, 500 IPCs is way too much.  Think about it, even the US would have to buy NO units for 6 rounds to get that much money.

    I understand the facts you dragged up, but how could you figure out how much the US would spend on tanks?  It really depends on the player for one thing.  Some guys might buy almost no tanks for USA, preferring to purchase inf/art for all their transports.  Others might be very tank heavy.  Then you have to figure in whether or not the US captures an IC or not.  Usually, I will go more with inf/art when I have to load them on transports but once I get an IC over in Europe, I tend to build all tanks there.
    There has to be a better way to figure out how much developing the first A-Bomb would cost.  This is assuming they already have the tech of course.  Perhaps 1/3 of total cash on hand?  Or better yet, perhaps 1/3 of the total income from all territories and NOs at that time.  Also, would it be the same for Germany?
    The problem with this idea is it could end up being a variable amount and might even possibly make one country pay more for an A-bomb than the other, depending on what time during the game they decide to make an A-bomb.  (USA could be making 100 IPCs with territories and NOs, A-Bomb cost = 34 IPCs.  Germany might be making 75 IPCs with territories and NOs, A-bomb cost = 25 IPCs.)
    With that in mind, should the cost be a set level?  Perhaps 50-70 IPCs or so for the first one.  Subsequent bombs should be more than 10%, perhaps 15-20 IPCs each.


  • A - bomb not for me. Leave it up to strategy and die rolls and if you need to change up game, play with some NO and Tech. But not A-bomb.

    I agree with SS. If you wanna play with A-bomb play world war III


  • Just make it a NO for the US that it needs a cumulative die roll to obtain nukes

    Certain things have to happen in order for the US to roll “Atomic Dice”

    Allied control of Rome
    No Axis controlled territories in Africa
    The Axis cannot control US originally controlled territories in the Pacific (Guam, Midway, Hawaii, Johnston, Line, Philippines, Aleutian)
    The Axis cannot control UK originally controlled territories in Europe (London, Scotland, Iceland, Gibraltar)
    Anzac has to have collected IPC that round

    Before Germany goes in that round, the US gets to roll a die for each of the following:
    US Control of Rome
    US Control of Hawaii
    US Control of Caroline Islands
    US Control of Marianas
    US Control of Iwo Jima
    US Control of Okinawa
    US Control of Marshall Islands
    France collected IPC that round
    Allied Control of Egypt

    You have to roll something like six sixes in order to obtain an atomic bomb.  Thats six sixes cumulatively.  Alternately, you can make it a cumulative total so something like you have to roll something like a die total of 40-50 cumulatively on the die roll(s) over multiple rounds.

    Each nuke thereafter costs the US 1/3 of its IPC to purchase it (so probably something like 25-30 IPC at this point in the game).

    The Nuke works just like a SBR however it can only be on the Nation’s Capital (Tokyo / Berlin).  If the StratB’s with the Nuke(s) get to the roll dice phase for damage to the Major IC, then the attack is successful.

    A successful attack means that nation does not collect IPC that round.

    From the German perspective:

    Germany rolls a single die every round for the following objectives:

    German Control for each VC it controls

    So G1 would see Germany likely roll die for Berlin, Warsaw and Paris.

    Germany would also be able to roll die if it controls London, Egypt, Leningrad, Stalingrad, and/or Moscow which allows for Germany to go in any direction to obtain extra die rolls.

    Germany scores half (rounded down) its total die roll if the Axis does not control Paris and Rome.

    Germany has to obtain the same objective as the US to obtain an Atomic Bomb (six sixes or something like 50 total showing on the dice cumulatively through all rolls).

    I believe this puts the Atomic Bomb in play for Germany around turn 7-8 if it never loses Paris and owns London.  However Germany could only really play that Atomic bomb against Moscow if it sealioned G3 as its pretty darned difficult for it to launch a SBR against the US.  In effect it penalizes Moscow for sitting back and really doing nothing instead of pushing back against the Germans.

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