G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions)

[barnee]

@barnee

Ran into a couple things that needed fixing during test game. While at it I redid the math on “Planes Can Target Naval” and decided I had over compensated for the fact that Tac Bmbrs can’t stack against Subs, so changed that up.

Here’s what we have now:

When “Planes Can Target Naval” is activated Tacs and Ftrs will now hit ships at 1 in 8. Ftrs attack has been separated from Tacs so they can do joint attacks against Ships without Subs adversely affecting the battle.

Before if you attacked with say, 3 Ftrs 3 Tacs against a CA BB CV and 2 SS, the 5 Ships would undergo 5 shots and if you had 2 hits, the Sub could take both hits.

Now Ftrs attack, if they get any hits the Sub can’t take them. Tacs then attack and their hits can be taken by the Sub or the Capital ships.

Also, Ftrs Target ships at 1 in 12 on defense and Tacs 1 in 8. This is so the Tac can still shoot at Subs on defense when “SubsCanEvadeDestroyers_ChangerMustActivate” is activated.

Because of that, when “BBandCA_AA” is activated, Cruiser’s and BB’s AA will work when attacking. They hit at 1 in 12.
This can make the Battle Window a little busy, but I think one can get used to it fairly easy. Well see.

Here are the odds of AA and Planes Targeting hits:
AA _ Planes
Shots _ % of Hit _ % of Hit
1 _ 10 _ 12.5
2 _ 19 _ 23.4
3 _ 27.1 _ 33
4 _ 34.4 _ 41.4
5 _ 40.5 _ 48.7
6 _ 46.9 _ 55.1
7 _ 52.2 _ 60.7
8 _ 57 _ 65.6

Guess i should figure out how to make a table some day heh heh

Basically Planes Targeting has a slight advantage over the Ships AA which was what was wanted, as I feel Defensive Fleets tend to have the advantage and Historically Planes were more effective against Ships. It varies depending on the makeup of the forces though and Idk how 2 hit units and Subs will affect things, so we’ll see how it shakes out.

[General 6 Stars]

What is your table based off of ? D8 or 1 in 8 hit % ?

D6 / 1 in 6
1 hit 16.7%
2 hit 33.4%

D8 / 1 in 8
1 hit 12.5%
2 hit 25%

D10 / 1 in 10
1 hit 10%
2 hit 20%

D12 / 1 in 12
1 hit 8.3%
2 hit 16.6%

Just seeing if were on aboard with numbers.
Ha the next step which you can’t do but on a board map is the planes and ships can pick there target ( no defenders choice ) before they roll.
BB CR with AA can pick a Tac or Fig and subs can pick any ship but a sub.
Tac pick any ship including sub and Figs any ship ( no sub ) but I still have my ifs on Figs picking. Got to have the air battle first before any attack.

[barnee]

@SS-GEN

yea triplea is limiting but more stuff becomes possible all the time thanks to redrum and the guys.

Yea the Ships AA is 1 out of 10. Planes Targeting is 1 out of 8. So 10 sided and 8 sided. They only fire one time before the regular battle starts then they go to their normal combat values which is 6 sided.

so rolling 2 dice that hit at 1 in 10 their is a 19% of getting one “1”.

Used this guys formula

link text

[baron Münchhausen]

@vodot
Sorry, it has been a while…
In my own houseruled game, each TP is 1 hit…
The collective roll is for defense only.

[barnee]

Updated to triplea and added these ideas from simon

7)German Trade With Russia
When Deactivated Germany will not receive the Trade with Russia National objective if it has any units in Original Russian Territories.

Prevents Italy declaring war on Russia and taking control of Russian Territory and having Germany move Units into that territory while not at war with Russia and still able to collect the Trade National Objective.

8)Russia Spreads Communism In Africa
When Deactivated Russia will not receive the Spread of Communism National Objective for any Territories Not in Mainland Europe.

Also Mursilis China rules and some of his other ideas

9)China M
Adds the Mursilis China Rules. Changes China’s National Objective to 1 PU for each Burma Road Territory that is Allied controlled. Also allows Artillery builds as long as at least 1 of Burma or India is under Allied control.

If Chinese Guerrilla Fighters have been activated, they will now only spawn once All Burma Road Territories are under Axis control.

Note UK Pacific is Allied with China from the start, which allows UK Pacific Units to move into China. This is unintended and will need to be Player Enforced. May be fixed in the future.

10)China M BM
When used with the “China M” option, Chinese Guerrillas will spawn according to BM Rules .

11)Italy Controls Original
Italy receives 3 PUs when it controls all of it’s Original Territories.

12)USA bonus for North Africa 3 PU
Reduces the BM North Africa USA bonus to 3. Note You need to turn off the “USA bonus for North Africa” option or it will show up as well.

13)Western Europe Beach Head 3 PU
Reduces the BM Western Europe Beach Head for USA bonus to 3.

It’s under Experimental in Map Downloads “Global 40 House Rules”

[barnee]

Hey if anybody wants to give this a test drive (Option redesign with Cruiser A 4, Planes target Naval and Carriers RD 2, …:)
2.642 is the latest. Let me know if you wanna give it a go : )

[barnee]

Update to 2.646

Changed Tacs hitting Subs to “1 in 12” and allow them to stack again when “Planes Target Naval” is activated. They also hit Ships the same way now.

Primarily to help Japan with mid to late game Sub spam. Also help the Allies in the Atlantic, although this doesn’t really seem to be necessary. May still be an issue (Sub spam) but I’ve yet to see it prevent a win. “Attack0 Cost5” Bombers are another concern, but once again, I’ve yet to see them prevent a win and there are Options available to counter them if needed.

Biggest concern is Tacs ganging up on solo BBs, CAs and CVs. However, it does represent Dive Bombers and ASW planes well and while not ideal, subs can still be used as hit soakers.
Basically the “Big Boys” shouldn’t be sailing without support, which is an okay thing imo and they still get to shoot back : ) Well not the CVs…but…

Of course this is only an Option 🙂 Lots of ways to play 🙂

At any rate…that be the update
heh heh

[barnee]

Updated to 2.647

Change Tactical Bomber to hit at 2 in 12 when “Planes Target Naval” activated. Defends at 1 in 12. Does not stack against Subs and Ships. Fighters attack and defend at 1 in 12 against Ships. They do not stack.

Decided since Subs start to increase quite a bit mid to late game, you’d be better off to have the Tac hit at 1 in 6 against multiple targets than being able to stack at 1 in 12.

Ftr is a bit weaker. Ftr and Tac are now 23.6% vs the 25% that they were before when Targeting Ships, so not a big difference. Also emphasizes the Tac over the Ftr, which is what is wanted and keeps things a little more uniform with the CA/BB being the only 10 sided die now.

[Midnight_Reaper]

@barnee said in G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions):

{snip}
… with the CA/BB being the only 10 sided die now.

I know I missed most of this conversation, so pardon me for asking you to repeat yourself, but… why are the CAs and BBs using d10s instead of d12s?

-Midnight_Reaper

[barnee]

@Midnight_Reaper

They only use the 10 sided die for their AA shots. 1 Rd of AA same as land AA. BB gets 1 shot at 1 in 10 and CA gets 2 shots at 1 in 10 with no more than 1 shot per plane same as land AA. They use D6 for regular combat as all units do.

Had to tweak the AA a little as 1 in 6 was too powerful.

Ahh… misunderstood your question. Wanted the planes to have a slight advantage over the AA fire. So a Tac Hits at 2 in 12 and the ftr at 1 in 12 giving a 23.6% chance of 1 hit vs 2 shots from a CA which is a 19% chance of a hit. If I went 2 "1 in 12 " for the CA it would have 16% chance of 1 hit if their were 2 planes attacking and the BB only 8.3 %. That was a little weaker than desired.

If a Ftr and Tac are paired up they each get a shot at the ship. If there was just 2 Ftrs or Tacs then they’d only get the 1 shot.

[barnee]

Updated to 2.650 Adds:

16)Movel Victory Conditions Courtesy of taamvan. The Axis need “9” of the following after round 10 for victory:
Hold Berlin=Control Germany
Hold Warsaw=Control Poland
Hold Rome=Control Southern Italy
Hold Paris=Control France
Hold Toykyo=Control Japan
Hold Shanghai=Control Kiangsu
Seize the Caucasus=Control
Control North Africa=Morocco:Algeria:Tunisia:Libya:Tobruk:Alexandria:Egypt
Control All of Balkans=Crete:Yugoslavia:Greece:Bulgaria:Slovakia Hungary:Albania:Romania
Control of Philippines
Control of the Burma Road=India:Burma:Yunnan:Szechwan
Control of “5” Allied Island Territories in the Pacific=New Britain:Solomon Islands:New Guinea:Philippines:Line Islands:Guam:Wake Island:Aleutian Islands:Johnston Island:Hawaiian Islands:Midway:Fiji:Ceylon:Samoa:Gilbert Islands:Celebes:Java:Dutch New Guinea:Sumatra:New Hebrides
Seize all of China=Control of Manchuria:Hainan:Shensi:Yunnan:Szechwan:Suiyuyan:Kweichow:Hunan:Hopei:Shantung:Kwangsi:Kiangsu:Kiangsi:Jehol:Chahar:Anhwe:Tsinghai:Kansu
Seize Novgorod=Control
Seize Stalingrad=Control Volgograd
Seize Persia and Iraq=Control Iraq:Northwest Persia:Persia:Eastern Persia

Victory Notification will activate at beginning of Germans round 11 purchase.

Activates via “Map Options”

@taamvan Is this correct ?

[vodot]

@barnee

Is there a running summary or google doc of these rules changes somewhere, for someone that wants to run this setup on a physical board?

[barnee]

@vodot
Idk you would need to ask taamvan

[Patchman123]

How about making separate blue molds for France, instead of say, using Soviet Union (Russian) pieces painted blue? The regular color for A&A G40 for France? I think that it’s rather silly that ANZAC has its own molds and everyone else has updated sculpts, but not France. France gets knocked out, but later on, after liberation, she becomes a pain in the neck to Germany and Italy.

https://www.historicalboardgaming.com/France_c_209-2.html
Like these?

[CWO Marc]

@Patchman123 said in G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions):

How about making separate blue molds for France, instead of say, using Soviet Union (Russian) pieces painted blue? The regular color for A&A G40 for France? I think that it’s rather silly that ANZAC has its own molds and everyone else has updated sculpts, but not France. France gets knocked out, but later on, after liberation, she becomes a pain in the neck to Germany and Italy.

When the 2nd edition of Europe 1940 / Pacific 1940 came out, I was happy about the various new sculpts they included (including the full distinct ANZAC sculpt set) and disappointed that France’s non-infantry units continued to be blue versions of the Soviet set…but I guess that the single positive aspect of France being short-changed in both the 1st and 2nd editions is that it creates room for a nice sculpt upgrade in a hypothetical future 3rd edition: a full distinct French sculpt set. France is the last player nation left in Global 1940 which has such a large deficit of nationally-distinct OOB sculpts, and it would be nice for that gap to be filled. Global 1940 2nd edition has three minor gaps involving other nations, and it would be nice for them to be filled too in a future 3rd edition, but for the moment the 1941 game provides the means to do so: it has a distinct British naval transport, a distinct Soviet aircraft carrier, and it has an American P-40 Warhawk fighter which can serve as China’s Flying Tiger unit. An interesting question would be what kind of significant sculpt upgrade in a hypothetical Pacific 1940 3rd edition could be provided to balance the significant sculpt upgrade which a full French set would be in a hypothetical Europe 1940 3rd edition? I can’t think of any obvious single major upgrade, but perhaps several small ones would do just as well – for example, filling the minor gaps I’ve already mentioned, plus giving China a distinct artillery piece, plus perhaps reviving the concepts from the original Pacific game to give the US a distinctly-coloured Marine unit.

[Black_Elk]

That would be cool. I’d buy in for sure. It would be a pretty legit offering if it gave the US those warhawks in the Europe set, and the lightnings in the Pacific set. That way we’d get a bunch of warhawks and when you combine the boards you’d have a nice substitution at the ready for the Flying tiger in G40. I’d probably get more excited about seeing some of the 1941 scultps in a 3rd edition than France, but it would be nice for completion. Especially if the manual provided some extra options to expand the game, and perhaps put a new spin on it maybe with marines or vichy stuff. I think a second set up for the Global Board with an alternative start date would be cool and well received. Like they did for AA50

What would also be nice some map corrections for the roundels on Western Canada and Sierra Leon, if doing a new reprint.

[MGregersen]

@baron-Münchhausen Does a definite document with these interesting changes exist so that it could be applied to the G40 board version?

[barnee]

@MGregersen

Hi Welcome to the site :)

Not sure which Baron document you mean. A lot of the changes are available on triplea in “Global 40 House Rules”. It’s a conglomeration of a lot of the ideas on this thread for use in the digital triple a game. It can be found here:

https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/category/28/triplea-support

[MGregersen]

@barnee

Thank you :-)

Ah, I see. Just found your redesign of different unit statistics interesting and wondered if there was an “easy” way of implementing changes to the A&A G40 board version. It’s hard in this thread to to tell which were changes and which were changes to changes :-) And e.g. somewhere Baron wrote “Also, cheaper boats will increase the pressure on Axis much earlier in game.” I just can’t figure out if this means the game will break if you implement the changes written before that without doing anything else.

Btw, awesome work from everyone of you for even taking on the task of looking at changes for gameplay like this.

[barnee]

@MGregersen
heh heh yea Baron was balls to the wall until he got a girlfriend :)

@Black_Elk pretty knowledgeable about this stuff too. I’ll tyr and put rules in a doc if you don’t wanna check it on triplea. Been thinking of doing it

Peace