Enjoyed the article, Marc. Thank you.
Was Twitter that reminded me it was the 9th April though (Lee’s surrender); is the holidays still, so have my hands full.
Top 10 World War II action films of all time
-
Although I am in the camp of appreciating the Thin Red Line for what it is, I can’t argue with your assessment. I tryed to watch a movie recently called the Tree of Life, which began with the same slow poetic narrative as the Thin Red Line, not sure if it was the same director but I shut it off fast. The best things about TTRL was the battle scenes (it was the only film in which bodies were flung by the blast waves of mortar explosions rather than actors jumping away or being pulled by invisible tether lines), and the amazing performance of Nick Nolte of all people. However, that alone is not worth sitting through the mind numbing and never ending narrative about the meaning of life while watching tree bark grow and butterflies humping. I’m quite happy to keep it off the list, although I understand a new category of WW2 films may be better suited for it, I liked Inglorious Bastards… but it’s totally artsy in my opinion the way TTRL is.
-
@CWO:
Perhaps the closest parallel to The Thin Red Line would be Apocalypse Now (set in Vietnam, not WWII), since both movies were long, big-budget, artsy, semi-experimental war movies that are not to everyone’s tastes…though I did manage get all the way through the latter film.
I was thinking Apocalypse Now the whole time while I was reading your post, so I am glad you brought it up. It was much more an art film than a war film, though I do believe that it was able to capture a certain aspect of Vietnam (or perhaps any war) better than most standard war films do. The pure incomprehensibility of what you were watching, the ridiculousness of it and the confusion of what was going on really put you as a viewer into the film. It was a very effective method. I can’t say I enjoyed the film very much, but I thought certain aspects were very well done.
@Young:
I liked Inglorious Bastards… but it’s totally artsy in my opinion the way TTRL is.
I did not like Inglorious Basterds at all. It was not a war film, it was an art film. But I tend to dislike avant garde in any form, not just movies. I can appreciate Tarantino’s artistry, the meaning he conveyed with color and objects. He truly is a filmmaker because Inglorious Basterds felt more like an old-school film (the idea you get in your mind when you think of what a film is) than any other I have seen recently. I appreciated the acting and the well done costumes. But it wasn’t a serious film and I guess I just prefer more serious films. Felt like some sort of vaudeville theater production. I disliked the story, the fancifulness and the incomprehensibility at times.
-
I see that Hoff does not think much of Enemy at the Gates and no-one has replied to disagree - so I will!
I like this film! The depiction of the Soviet pre-Stalingrad politico-war machine works for me and I do care what happens to the main characters. Bob Hoskins is brilliant as Khrushchev. The hell of Stalingrad is on the screen.
Accepting the action (or battle) tag, it would be higher on my own list than a number of others featured.
Does anyone agree?
-
@Private:
I see that Hoff does not think much of Enemy at the Gates and no-one has replied to disagree - so I will!
I like this film! The depiction of the Soviet pre-Stalingrad politico-war machine works for me and I do care what happens to the main characters. Bob Hoskins is brilliant as Khrushchev. The hell of Stalingrad is on the screen.
Accepting the action (or battle) tag, it would be higher on my own list than a number of others featured.
Does anyone agree?
Full disclosure: it has been years since I have seen the movie. I will need to re-watch to fully confirm and support my opinions.
-
I am afraid, PP, that I was thoroughly disappointed with the film.
I think the characters were very badly cast and the acting was atrocious. -
@Private:
I see that Hoff does not think much of Enemy at the Gates and no-one has replied to disagree - so I will!
I like this film! The depiction of the Soviet pre-Stalingrad politico-war machine works for me and I do care what happens to the main characters. Bob Hoskins is brilliant as Khrushchev. The hell of Stalingrad is on the screen.
Accepting the action (or battle) tag, it would be higher on my own list than a number of others featured.
Does anyone agree?
I really like this film, but only for the battle scenes.
-
@Private:
I see that Hoff does not think much of Enemy at the Gates and no-one has replied to disagree - so I will!
Does anyone agree?I’ve never seen it, so I can’t help with that one. The only dramatic (i.e. non-documentary) film about Stalingrad that I’ve ever watched is an English-subtitled version of the two-part b&w 1949 Soviet film “Stalingradskaya bitva” (The Battle of Stalingrad), which is a very odd movie. Its battle scenes are in some ways very impressive – the director clearly had access to unlimited help from the Red Army, which provided lots of real tanks and other equipment – but they also include some of the worst combat-related acting I’ve ever seen on film. Much of the film is devoted to showing Stalin running the war as a one-man show from an impressive military conference room, equipped with a long, impressive conference table, that is completely unoccupied except for Stalin and one other person (sometimes it’s a general, sometimes it’s an enlisted man receiving information on a radio). I there are a couple of scenes where the number of officers in the room with Stalin rises to two, and their main job seems to be to answer, “It will be done, Comrade Stalin” (in a suitably impressed and reverential tone) whenever Stalin announces a decision. The message seems to be that Stalin was such a military genius that he didn’t really need a general staff.
Oddly enough, I first watched this film after I had seen another Soviet film of the same ilk, “Padeniye Berlina” (The Fall of Berlin), which was released in 1950 and which was (ironically) shot on German colour Agfa film stock captured in Germany by the Russians. Padeniye Berlina is so bizarre that it made Stalingradskaya bitva look like a documentary when I got around to seeing that one, and it makes the b&w film’s portrayal of Stalin look restrained and non-partisan by comparison.
Both films, by the way, include actors who portray a Russian-speaking Hitler. This makes for an extremely strange viewing experience, to put it mildly.
-
Hitler always sounds more authentic speaking Scottish.
-
@wittmann:
I am afraid, PP, that I was thoroughly disappointed with the film.
I think the characters were very badly cast and the acting was atrocious.Oh witt! Oh Hoff! Oh YG!
Perhaps the presence of Rachel Weisz blinded me to these shortcomings! :-)
-
I thought it might have been Bob Hoskins, so that is a relief!
-
Why? Did you want him all to yourself?
-
Been a long time since I saw “Enemy at the Gates”. It was ok, but not as interesting an experience as watching the German film “Stalingrad”. I don’t know if “Stalingrad” deserves to be in a Top 10 list, but if any Stalingrad themed movie makes an elite list, I would back that one. Yes, Stalingrad is a dark and frankly depressing film, but in this respect it reflects its subject matter.
-
Stalingrad is a very authentic movie and I agree with you Zhukov44.
It should be on the list. :-) -
Really weird thing in enemy at the Gates - Ron Perlman dubbed into an English accent. If he’s supposed to be Russian what the hell? :?
-
If Stalingrad goes on, what comes off?
-
Is this the latest list YG?
1. Das Boot (The Boat)
2. A Bridge to Far
3. Saving Private Ryan
4. Patton
5. The Battle of the Bulge
6. The Longest Day
7. Tora, Tora, Tora
8. Went the Day Well
9. The Battle of Britain
10. MidwayNot seen Stalingrad, but have seen all of the above and hardly remember Tora, Tora, Tora - so for me that’s the most likely candidate for removal.
-
@Private:
Is this the latest list YG?
1. Das Boot (The Boat)
2. A Bridge toO Far
3. Saving Private Ryan
4. Patton
5. The Battle of the Bulge
6. The Longest Day
7. Tora, Tora, Tora
8. Went the Day Well
9. The Battle of Britain
10. MidwayNot seen Stalingrad, but have seen all of the above and hardly remember Tora, Tora, Tora - so for me that’s the most likely candidate for removal.
I would say No. 8 Went the Day Well… granted I have never seen the film, however there are a couple reasons I would say it should come off for another to put on:
a) it is entirely fictional - For some reason, I have always thought that historical or based on actual event war movies are more legitimate (deserve higher regard) than those completely made up. No other film in this Top 10 list is completely fictional; they all closely follow or are based on historical events/battles.
b) it is a propaganda film - I personally give less critical regard to many of the 1940s “flag waving” films, precisely because they are as biased/narrowly written as possible. This film may be an exception, I really don’t know, but the war films of that era (when the war was taking place) were rarely made for creative or thought provoking purposes other than to motivate your people to defeat the enemy. Thus they often lack the nuance of later films, even if that “nuance” is simply that things were not always positive and not every battle was won. Narratives for these types of films tend to be very one dimensional.
c) they were made during the war - This relates to the above point, but goes further in that, by being made during the war, there was no time for the events portrayed to sink in to the collective consciousness of the world/society. This leads to propagandizing and flag waving, but it also means that people making the film are often deprived of the grander picture; the war is not often seen for what it truly is or regarded the same way that it is once it has ended and people can soberly look back on it.
Again… I cannot say that all these elements are included in this film, so Marc you may have to correct me. However, I would say that this film should be removed before any other currently on the list to make room for Stalingrad. I haven’t seen Stalingrad either, but from what I have read it is very much an action oriented film (what this list is about).
Tora, Tora, Tora IMO should remain unless bumped by a worthy movie. It is a classic take on the most famous (besides Overlord) US battle and is quite good for its time.
-
Again… I cannot say that all these elements are included in this film, so Marc you may have to correct me. However, I would say that this film should be removed before any other currently on the list to make room for Stalingrad.
I have no problem with taking “Went the Day Well?” off the list. My February 18 post, in which I first mentioned it, wasn’t actually a nomination of that film for the top 10 list. I simply mentioned it in the course of making a larger argument about film scale versus film quality – and in fact I specifically said that “I wouldn’t call it “one of the greatest” because it’s a very modest production.”
On a different subject, I once heard a funny (but actually rather believable) theory saying that films which depict and are titled after a historical battle tend to be less good than films which depict but are NOT titled after a historical battle. Some examples that fit are:
-
Pearl Harbor (2001) isn’t as good as Tora, Tora, Tora (1970)
-
The Battle of the Bulge (1965) isn’t as good as Battleground (1949)
-
D-Day the Sixth of June (1956) isn’t as good as The Longest Day (1962)
I haven’t seen either Stalingrad or Enemy at the Gates, so I don’t know if they fit this pattern.
-
-
@CWO:
On a different subject, I once heard a funny (but actually rather believable) theory saying that films which depict and are titled after a historical battle tend to be less good than films which depict but are NOT titled after a historical battle. Some examples that fit are:
-
Pearl Harbor (2001) isn’t as good as Tora, Tora, Tora (1970)
-
The Battle of the Bulge (1965) isn’t as good as Battleground (1949)
-
D-Day the Sixth of June (1956) isn’t as good as The Longest Day (1962)
I haven’t seen either Stalingrad or Enemy at the Gates, so I don’t know if they fit this pattern.
Interesting point and from the examples given I would agree with the theory.
An exception might be Midway, but then again I don’t know of any other film which depicts the Battle of Midway other than the Charlton Heston movie.
-
-
An exception might be Midway, but then again I don’t know of any other film which depicts the Battle of Midway other than the Charlton Heston movie.
John Ford – who was on the island itself during the battle – made a colour documentary titled The Battle of Midway. The title is, however, almost identical to the Charlton Heston film, so the pairing doesn’t actually fit the dichotomy I mentioned. I’ve seen both movies. The Ford documentary is okay, but the feature is infinitely more interesting and exciting. I think some of Ford’s footage ended up in the later movie. One notable aspect of the Ford picture is that it’s not staged; in some shots, in fact, you can see the frame registration jumping around because nearby bomb blasts shook up the camera as Ford and his assistants were shooting.
Suggested Topics
