Star Wars Lives!

[lexgreat]

@LHoffman:

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2017/01/01/disney-could-receive-50m-for-carrie-fishers-death.html

I was wondering if something like this would happen.

Hmmm… now I wonder if in fact they do make a digital version of the elderly Princess Leia just as they did with the young one.

well, no way they rewrite the Resistance leader General Solo out of the movies. Not that I really care, to be honest, Leia didnt add something essential to the plot, other than grief for Ben. But one parent is dead, I am sure they had plans, how else to keep up the “emotions”. Let Rey fall in love with Ben?

[CWO Marc]

I finally saw Rogue One over the holidays, and I quite liked it.  It certainly did have some problems – I’ll say more about those in a moment – but it more than held my attention for its entire length.  I appreciated the fact that it’s set in the same era as the original trilogy, and that it involves what I call the “classic” Empire as opposed to the degenerating Republic of the prequel trilogy and the neo-Imperialistic context of the sequel trilogy.  It also struck me as being a more adult movie than The Force Awakens, and indeed quite a dark, modern-style war film in many respects.  I managed to avoid learning very much about the film before seeing it, so that I could watch it with as few preconceptions as possible, but I wasn’t suprised when the only “happy” part about the ending was that the Rebel Alliance (as we already knew decades ago from the opening scroll of Episode IV) sucessfully got its hands on the Death Star plans, an event that would eventually lead to the destruction of the Empire’s ultimate terror weapon.  It was appropriate that this accomplishment would be purchased at a very high price.

That said, there were a few things about the movie that were problematic, though none of them got in the way of my enjoying the film.  The storyline was somewhat clumsy, and I was perplexed by the lame “well, we might as well throw in the towel” reaction of the Rebel Alliance leadership when they learned about the Death Star.  A few picky details annoyed me; for example, there was the fact that the Imperial Stardestroyers and the AT-AT walkers seemed much mure vulnerable to weapons fire in this film than we saw in the opening half-hour of The Empire Strikes Back.  I also kept wondering why an Imperial pilot who had recently defected would have long and unkempt hair worthy of a rock musician; I had always assumed that TIE fighter pilot had neat crew-cuts under those helmets of theirs.  Less annoyingly, because I found his dry humour appropriately calibrated (in contrast with Jar Jar’s annoying slapstick in the prequel trilogy), I got the impression halfway through the movie that the reprogrammed Imperial robot was more or less a cross between a Star Wars droid and Marvin the Paranoid Android from the old TV version of the Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy – the (depressed rather than paranoid) robot who keeps complaining with lines like “The first three billion years were the worst.”

All in all, though, a movie that I liked and that I’m planning to get for myself when it’s released on DVD – which is more than I can say about The Force Awakens, or the entire The Hobbit trilogy.

[LHoffman]

@CWO:

A few picky details annoyed me; for example, there was the fact that the Imperial Stardestroyers and the AT-AT walkers seemed much mure vulnerable to weapons fire in this film than we saw in the opening half-hour of The Empire Strikes Back.  I also kept wondering why an Imperial pilot who had recently defected would have long and unkempt hair worthy of a rock musician; I had always assumed that TIE fighter pilot had neat crew-cuts under those helmets of theirs.

The Star Destroyers bit annoyed me slightly, because it did seem unusually easy for the Rebels to take a couple out, without showing the requisite punishment they would first need to absorb. You have to hammer the shields a good while before you can just take out the shield generators at the top. It was kinda cool how the Rebels actually made explicit use of ion cannons to disable one. The resulting push by the smaller Rebel ship was over the top though.

I believe the rationale for the AT-ATs was that they were not standard armored AT-ATs, but rather some larger, less combat capable version that was used for transport/construction. At least that is what I read somewhere, so take that for what it’s worth. I couldn’t understand why, but it looked like the sides were made of plywood.

I think the Imperial defector was some kind of shuttle or cargo pilot and not a tie fighter pilot. That would explain the image and nervous attitude. Not that Imperial Navy members should have long hair; no answer for that.

[General Veers]

I found ion torpedoes an overpowered plot device; who needs to set up and power a huge KDY-150 Planet Defender Ion Cannon on Echo Base when you can have a few Y-wings take down a Star Destroyer? The easy answer is Kuat Drive Yards learned their lessons from this battle and increased the shield capacity of Star Destroyers and the armor plating on AT-ATs.

I did not care for the droid at all, and was glad he finally bit the dust.

[aequitas-et-veritas]

The AT-AT’s on Scarif are AT-ACT’s (All Terrain-Armored Cargo Transport).
They were designed for armored Cargo and to defend them selfs .

HTH

[LHoffman]

@General:

I found ion torpedoes an overpowered plot device; who needs to set up and power a huge KDY-150 Planet Defender Ion Cannon on Echo Base when you can have a few Y-wings take down a Star Destroyer? The easy answer is Kuat Drive Yards learned their lessons from this battle and increased the shield capacity of Star Destroyers and the armor plating on AT-ATs.

I did not care for the droid at all, and was glad he finally bit the dust.

Hahaha! Amen and well said!

[Wolfshanze]

Geez guys whats with all the Android hate?  I found him neither a great joy, nor annoying… just another character to me… and compared with the Jar Jars and Ewoks of past movies… really… REALLY, you found this droid annoying? I would think you would be jumping for joy we didn’t get more Ewoks or Jar Jar… what does it take to please you folks… an emo, all-black wearing droid saying “you don’t understand me” and killing himself 5 seconds into the movie?  Man you guys are impossible to please… order up more Ewoks to give these guys something real to complain about.

[LHoffman]

@Wolfshanze:

Geez guys whats with all the Android hate?  I found him neither a great joy, nor annoying… just another character to me… and compared with the Jar Jars and Ewoks of past movies… really… REALLY, you found this droid annoying? I would think you would be jumping for joy we didn’t get more Ewoks or Jar Jar… what does it take to please you folks… an emo, all-black wearing droid saying “you don’t understand me” and killing himself 5 seconds into the movie?  Man you guys are impossible to please… order up more Ewoks to give these guys something real to complain about.

There was no android in the movie.

And what are you even talking about? Emo/goth, you don’t understand me, killed himself 5 seconds in… ?? If you are talking about K-whatever, then yeah, he is the one I didn’t like either. The character was fine, appropriate even, but the way they wrote him was so transparently as a comic sidekick and his lines were delivered at what felt like inappropriate times. Your characterization of him is exaggerated, especially in that he didn’t kill himself. He wasn’t ridiculous on the level of Ewoks and Jar Jar; he just wasn’t good and, in my opinion, was distracting.

[Wolfshanze]

@LHoffman:

There was no android in the movie.

Oh no, I added “An” to “droid”… these aren’t the droids you’re looking for… Its this mindset… some people will sit and nitpick every little thing till there is nothing left to enjoy.

Stop going to Star Wars movies, you will never enjoy any of them, you will always find something wrong to complain about.

Some people just can’t relax and enjoy a good movie without trying to pick it to pieces.

[lexgreat]

I dont mind the unkempt cargo shuttle pilot, but what really was striking was the apparent worthlessness of Imperial stormtrooper armour. Jeez, even a stick (wielded by a Force sensitive or not, if he was one) would penetrate and kill with every stroke. Or was it supposed to find the armour gap in every blow? Also blaster fire killed a trooper with every shot, while Rebels seemed to absorb much more. But well, not only KDY apparently had improvements to make.

Edit: AAAnd there is some love for the droid. I found his drier type of humor quiet nice, even if I know why he is there and how much they try to make SW humorous by all the droid stuff. This reprogrammed over C3PO any day :)

[CWO Marc]

@alexgreat:

I dont mind the unkempt cargo shuttle pilot, but what really was striking was the apparent worthlessness of Imperial stormtrooper armour. Jeez, even a stick (wielded by a Force sensitive or not, if he was one) would penetrate and kill with every stroke. Or was it supposed to find the armour gap in every blow? Also blaster fire killed a trooper with every shot, while Rebels seemed to absorb much more. But well, not only KDY apparently had improvements to make.

This is actually a very old problem dating all the way back to the first movie.  The stormtrooper armour looks fantastic (to the point where it’s become a pop culture icon), but its military practicality has been questioned on the grounds that: a) it makes the wearer highly visible, b) it restricts the wearer’s vision, and c) it appears to offer little or no protection against enemy weapons (ranging all the way from sophisticated blasters to primitive Ewok stone axes).  As for the offensive effectiveness of Imperial stormtroopers, Ben Kenobi made a comment to Luke in the first movie about the precision and accuracy of their marksmanship – but in fact, a typical Star Wars battle scene (even a largely one-sided battle like the one in the Luke-and-Leia-swinging-over-the-bottomless-shaft scene in Episode IV) shows the stormtroopers as having a rather bad hit-to-miss ratio with their blasters.  There’s even a name for this phenomenon: the Stormtrooper Effect (also known an the Inverse Ninja Law), which basically states that the firepower accuracy of stormtroopers in a given scene is inversely proportional to their numbers.

[CWO Marc]

I don’t know if this has been commented on previously, but here’s something about Rogue One that didn’t consciously register with me when I saw it a week ago: the scene at the beginning in which we get our first glimpse of Director Krennic, who’s dressed in white and is surrounded by stormtroopers in black armour, is the reverse of the scene in Episode IV in which we get our first glimpse of Darth Vader, who’s dressed in black and is surrounded by stormtroopers in white armour.  Does anyone know, by the way, if the stormtroopers in black have a special name or represent members of some kind of special unit?

[Private-Panic]

@Wolfshanze:

Stop going to Star Wars movies, you will never enjoy any of them, you will always find something wrong to complain about.

Or go and see a decent movie! :-P

Oooh err! Have I just incurred the wrath of millions of Star Wars lovers?  :|

[aequitas-et-veritas]

@CWO:

I don’t know if this has been commented on previously, but here’s something about Rogue One that didn’t consciously register with me when I saw it a week ago: the scene at the beginning in which we get our first glimpse of Director Krennic, who’s dressed in white and is surrounded by stormtroopers in black armour, is the reverse of the scene in Episode IV in which we get our first glimpse of Darth Vader, who’s dressed in black and is surrounded by stormtroopers in white armour.  Does anyone know, by the way, if the stormtroopers in black have a special name or represent members of some kind of special unit?

They are elite Stormtroopers called Death Troopers, acting also sometimes as guards for high ranked officers.

[CWO Marc]

@aequitas:

They are elite Stormtroopers called Death Troopers, acting also sometimes as guards for high ranked officers.

Ah, okay – thanks.  It’s good name for these fellows because they didn’t exactly look friendly.  Definitely not guys from the Empire’s public relations department, if it has one.

[LHoffman]

@Wolfshanze:

Oh no, I added “An” to “droid”… these aren’t the droids you’re looking for… Its this mindset… some people will sit and nitpick every little thing till there is nothing left to enjoy.

It was a brief statement to correct your inaccuracy. It isn’t my fault that you aren’t consistent in your terms.

I agree, we are getting to a point of critical oversaturation. Everyone has an opinion and when everyone also has a social media voice, they all become critics. Over-analysis is prevalent, but this was not a case of that. Both I and General Veers said we didn’t like him, not that he ruined the movie.

If you liked the droid, that’s great for you. I didn’t say you should share my opinion.

@Wolfshanze:

Stop going to Star Wars movies, you will never enjoy any of them, you will always find something wrong to complain about.

Some people just can’t relax and enjoy a good movie without trying to pick it to pieces.

When something goes right, you don’t remark about it. It is expected; the default. When something is wrong and out of place, it is noticed and gets criticized. That’s just the way humans work. By your rationale I shouldn’t go to any movies since me disliking stuff is not limited to Star Wars.

[LHoffman]

@CWO:

As for the offensive effectiveness of Imperial stormtroopers, Ben Kenobi made a comment to Luke in the first movie about the precision and accuracy of their marksmanship – but in fact, a typical Star Wars battle scene (even a largely one-sided battle like the one in the Luke-and-Leia-swinging-over-the-bottomless-shaft scene in Episode IV) shows the stormtroopers as having a rather bad hit-to-miss ratio with their blasters.  There’s even a name for this phenomenon: the Stormtrooper Effect (also known an the Inverse Ninja Law), which basically states that the firepower accuracy of stormtroopers in a given scene is inversely proportional to their numbers.

Ha, I never realized the irony of Obi-wan’s statement until you said that. That is amusing.

@CWO:

I don’t know if this has been commented on previously, but here’s something about Rogue One that didn’t consciously register with me when I saw it a week ago: the scene at the beginning in which we get our first glimpse of Director Krennic, who’s dressed in white and is surrounded by stormtroopers in black armour, is the reverse of the scene in Episode IV in which we get our first glimpse of Darth Vader, who’s dressed in black and is surrounded by stormtroopers in white armour.

Oh crap!… it’s the Ring Theory coming back! http://www.starwarsringtheory.com/

[CWO Marc]

@LHoffman:

@CWO:

As for the offensive effectiveness of Imperial stormtroopers, Ben Kenobi made a comment to Luke in the first movie about the precision and accuracy of their marksmanship – but in fact, a typical Star Wars battle scene (even a largely one-sided battle like the one in the Luke-and-Leia-swinging-over-the-bottomless-shaft scene in Episode IV) shows the stormtroopers as having a rather bad hit-to-miss ratio with their blasters.  There’s even a name for this phenomenon: the Stormtrooper Effect (also known an the Inverse Ninja Law), which basically states that the firepower accuracy of stormtroopers in a given scene is inversely proportional to their numbers.

Ha, I never realized the irony of Obi-wan’s statement until you said that. That is amusing.

Another good example is the scene in Episode IV in which a squad of stormtroopers is led by an informer to the Mos Eisley docking bay (number 94, I think) where the Millenium Falcon is preparing for takeoff.  Han Solo is standing all alone near the ship’s boarding ramp; all the other good guys are already aboard.  The squad enters the docking bay, their military-grade heavy blasters at the ready, and the squad leader says (as I recall) “There they are – blast them!”  You’d think that Han Solo – whose blaster pistol is small and lightweight compared to those of the Imperial troops, and which is still in its holster when the stormtroopers start shooting – would be a dead duck.  What happens instead?  Solo not only manages to retreat into the ship without a scratch, he even manages to gun down a couple of troopers in the process.  It’s no wonder that one of the entries in the Evil Overlord list says “My Legions of Terror will be trained in basic rifle marksmanship.  Any who cannot hit a man-sized target at ten meters will be used for target practice.”  Or, to quote the scene from Tora, Tora, Tora in which Admiral Halsey expresses his opinion to another officer about the torpedo bomber practice runs he’s been observing: “Tell Lieutenant Dickerson for me that he couldn’t hit a bull in the butt with a bass fiddle.”

[LHoffman]

The stormtrooper marksmanship stereotype has been around for a while, I just never connected it to what Obi-wan said in Ep IV. The irony is tremendous. Maybe he was thinking back on the clones, who seemed to have far better marksmanship. They were the good guys at the time.

[CWO Marc]

@LHoffman:

The stormtrooper marksmanship stereotype has been around for a while, I just never connected it to what Obi-wan said in Ep IV. The irony is tremendous. Maybe he was thinking back on the clones, who seemed to have far better marksmanship. They were the good guys at the time.

In fairness, Obi-wan in Episode IV gives what could be called a balanced review.  On the one hand, he tells Luke about the accuracy and Stormtrooper-like precision of the blast points left on the Jawa sandcrawler.  On the other hand, just a short while earlier, he had told Luke that lightsabers were not as clumsy and random as blasters.  Perhaps the single explanation that fits all the seemingly-contradictory evidence has to do with who a blaster is pointed at, not who’s holding it: blasters are accurate and precise when they’re fired at a particular movie’s bad guys and secondary characters, but clumsy and random when they’re fired at the film’s heroes.