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How could Germany have won the war?


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Lets stick to the topic guys. Everybody has a take and to not reflect on History’s success or failures is in itself a failure.

    “If you dont learn from the past you will repeat it” as the saying goes ( not from the internet)

    Hitler didnt learn from Napoleon. He didnt even read a book or the Internet to see he was commiting the same mistake. Thats why its important to learn the why and why not.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Im curious about so many “other” answers… what choices would you guys have made?



  • @Imperious:

    Lets stick to the topic guys. Everybody has a take and to not reflect on History’s success or failures is in itself a failure.

    “If you dont learn from the past you will repeat it” as the saying goes ( not from the internet)

    Hitler didnt learn from Napoleon. He didnt even read a book or the Internet to see he was commiting the same mistake. Thats why its important to learn the why and why not.

    Al Gore had not invented the internet yet. 🙂

    But you are right, Pre-41 Hitler somewhat paid attention to history (no 2 front war), then sudenly “forgot” what Napolean’s fiasco should have taught him.

    Squirecam



  • Forgive this for being simplistic.

    The successful assassination of Hitler early in the war would have done wonders for the Reich.

    Less economy/ trains tied up in the ‘final solution’.

    Liberation of eastern Europe/ White Russia/ Ukraine rather than war of extermination against the ‘inferior’ slavic peoples. This would have lead to much less partisan activity behind the lines, and would have provided easier access to food/ shelter/ conscripts etc.- rather than a population that quickly learned it had to resist or be killed.

    Sober choices regarding Stalingrad/ Kursk/ Battle of the Bulge etc. These battles cost the Wehrmacht hundreds of thousands of lives and thousands of armored vehicles/ artillery/ aircraft. Each loss was another broken vertabrae in Germany’s back. All of them were the result of Hitler’s personal hubris. Stalingrad could have been bypassed- instead the entire 6th Army was consumed and marked the official turning point on the East Front and the war in general. Kursk was pure stubbornness- the Red Army had over 10,000 pieces of artillery prepared, massive anti-tank earthworks, and outnumbered the German armor by over 2 -1, and knowing this Hitler still ordered Operation Citadel to continue. What a dufus.

    Less resources spent on ‘wonder’ weapons and V1 &2 (Vengeance) rockets. Negligible effect on the war, large amount of brain power and resources wasted. Again, this was personal and not rational.

    As said earlier in this thread, winter clothing for the start of Barbarossa.

    Implementation of total war economy. Hitler insisted on having life in the Reich stay as normal as possible. Oops. In the meantime Russian women were flying Yaks and driving T-34s, American women were working their asses off on assembly lines producing Shermans, and all the while German women were getting busy trying to push out as many aryan babies as possible. Another mistake.

    Allowing Goering to lose focus on the prize during the Battle of Britain. The RAF was exhausted and all but defeated. A few stray bombs fell on London by mistake, and the next thing you know the Luftwaffe is going after cities rather than the battered British air force. This break allowed them to recoup, and Britain remained alive and eventually became the staging ground for D-Day.

    There are a bunch more.

    If Hitler had been offed, and his generals had taken control of the state, Germany would have avoided myriad disasters and most likely would have kicked in Russia’s door.

    Thank god all the assassination attempts failed.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Yes… most of that is true except that if Reinhard Heydrich was not also assassinated he would then have been the Reich’s new leader because if Goering took over he would be murdered in 5 minutes… nobody wanted him to rule because he was fully incompetent. The only man who could usurp power would be somebody like Heydrich the “blond beast of terror” or somebody like Manstein or Rommel. This is not without precedent. In WW1 Ludendorf basically usurped power by 1918 from the Kaiser.


  • 2007 AAR League

    I haven´t read thrue the whole thread so this might have been mentioned earlier:

    Germany should have continued to Bomb RAF airfields and not stop and go terror bombing London becuse a lone american bomber bombed citizens of Hamburg…

    That would have cracke the RAF compleatly within 6 months, and an German Invasion would have ensured in UK.



  • Lemmee see…

    88MM - “…winter clothing…”
    Nix - “…bomb RAF airfields…”

    …I got a lil support here.

    Though I must say 88 covered “It woulda been better if…” quite well.



  • @Imperious:

    Im curious about so many “other” answers… what choices would you guys have made?

    History shows that the battle was lost vs the RAF.  Hitler used air power to overcome the UK naval supremacy.  Losses there lead to weaknesses in his air campaign vs Russia.  Air power could have also been useful in the Mediterranean and elsewhere.  I would have advised the German High Command to use the undersea constrruction subs to engineer a 200-300 yard wide isthumus between Calias and Dover.  A mere 21 miles.  Heavy, long-range cannons on armored barges can then be placed on the edge of this artificial isthmus to keep the Royal navy away and then project Nazi power onto the mainland. Â

    It may take 3 years to complete, but then you can blitz the rest of England in 6 months!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_channel



  • @88:

    Forgive this for being simplistic.

    The successful assassination of Hitler early in the war would have done wonders for the Reich.

    Less economy/ trains tied up in the ‘final solution’.

    Liberation of eastern Europe/ White Russia/ Ukraine rather than war of extermination against the ‘inferior’ slavic peoples. This would have lead to much less partisan activity behind the lines, and would have provided easier access to food/ shelter/ conscripts etc.- rather than a population that quickly learned it had to resist or be killed.

    Sober choices regarding Stalingrad/ Kursk/ Battle of the Bulge etc. These battles cost the Wehrmacht hundreds of thousands of lives and thousands of armored vehicles/ artillery/ aircraft. Each loss was another broken vertabrae in Germany’s back. All of them were the result of Hitler’s personal hubris. Stalingrad could have been bypassed- instead the entire 6th Army was consumed and marked the official turning point on the East Front and the war in general. Kursk was pure stubbornness- the Red Army had over 10,000 pieces of artillery prepared, massive anti-tank earthworks, and outnumbered the German armor by over 2 -1, and knowing this Hitler still ordered Operation Citadel to continue. What a dufus.

    Less resources spent on ‘wonder’ weapons and V1 &2 (Vengeance) rockets. Negligible effect on the war, large amount of brain power and resources wasted. Again, this was personal and not rational.

    As said earlier in this thread, winter clothing for the start of Barbarossa.

    Implementation of total war economy. Hitler insisted on having life in the Reich stay as normal as possible. Oops. In the meantime Russian women were flying Yaks and driving T-34s, American women were working their asses off on assembly lines producing Shermans, and all the while German women were getting busy trying to push out as many aryan babies as possible. Another mistake.

    Allowing Goering to lose focus on the prize during the Battle of Britain. The RAF was exhausted and all but defeated. A few stray bombs fell on London by mistake, and the next thing you know the Luftwaffe is going after cities rather than the battered British air force. This break allowed them to recoup, and Britain remained alive and eventually became the staging ground for D-Day.

    There are a bunch more.

    If Hitler had been offed, and his generals had taken control of the state, Germany would have avoided myriad disasters and most likely would have kicked in Russia’s door.

    Thank god all the assassination attempts failed.

    Factualy, everything you said is true.  But you are missing one HUGE point.  If there was no Hitler, there would have been no war.  His generals from day 1 were saying not to attack Poland (even b4 the war they were telling him not to get too aggresive politicaly).  Hitler demanded miracles from the german army early on, and for the most part they delivered.  Stalingrad… while it was a huge mistake German forces were encircled before (winter of 41) and goering did supply them by air.  So while it was stupid to keep his troops in Stalingrad, goering did make good on the promise of doing it in 41.  So Hitler figured he could do it again (he was corporal Hitler, There is a huge diff between the 2 situations).

    Germany not having a war time economy?  Good point, but do you remember one BIG reason Germany lost WW1?  Because people had to go w/o.  Hitler wanted to keep the people happy, and not re-live the same situation of WW1.  It actualy says something about Hitler’s bullshit mindset.  The Jews lost Germany WW1, but he knew all along (somewhere in his twisted mind) that the German people had enough by 1918 (even the non jews shock).

    Can’t blame the German people, becaue they are all so aryan… how could they do something wrong?  It had to be those damn jews.



  • Zooey, goering and the luftwaffe failed in supplying the encircled army.
    Also, if Hitler had to choose between having a happy home front or winning the war, he should have choosen winning the war.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Goering failed in everything he ever did! He alone basically was responsible for Hitlers demise. Adolf Galland should have led the Luftwaffe. He had all the correct ideas but was never taken seriously.



  • @Imperious:

    Goering failed in everything he ever did! He alone basically was responsible for Hitlers demise. Adolf Galland should have led the Luftwaffe. He had all the correct ideas but was never taken seriously.

    Yup, he did fail in just about everything.  He even pledged the luftwaffe to paradrop 300 tons of supplys everyday to the entraped 6th army at Stalingrad.  The luftwaffe was barely pushing 90 tons a day.  Just cause it worked in small scale doesnt mean its automatically going to work in large scale……silly Goering.  :roll:



  • Outcomes of wars more are reflective of what a country collectively does rather than the successful or failing efforts of a few.



  • ok, take a breather and think of your history.

    Winter of 41 the Russians stopped the assualt on Moscow.  At the same time they had encircled German forces.  The German airforce did supply them by air.  You all know the standard Hitler order (across the board), no retreat.  Remember the Russian winter offensive in 41?  It did not break Germany, but why do you think that was so?  Do your research, it was an orderly retreat (supplied from the air while encircled).

    The difference between the 2 scenerios is that in 41 it was a broad front, the Russians could not contest the air over so much territory (not to mention their AF was destroyed on the ground, and obsolete to boot).  In 42 the Russians could stop resupply.  They focused on Stalingrad as their “big trap”, and it worked.

    Am I wrong in this?  To the poster who said they barely got any supplies into staingrad… how many German planes were shot down trying to?  How many were JU52s were shot down in 41?  That says it all.



  • @Zooey72:

    ok, take a breather and think of your history.

    Winter of 41 the Russians stopped the assualt on Moscow.  At the same time they had encircled German forces.  The German airforce did supply them by air.  You all know the standard Hitler order (across the board), no retreat.  Remember the Russian winter offensive in 41?  It did not break Germany, but why do you think that was so?  Do your research, it was an orderly retreat (supplied from the air while encircled).

    The difference between the 2 scenerios is that in 41 it was a broad front, the Russians could not contest the air over so much territory (not to mention their AF was destroyed on the ground, and obsolete to boot).  In 42 the Russians could stop resupply.  They focused on Stalingrad as their “big trap”, and it worked.

    Am I wrong in this?  To the poster who said they barely got any supplies into staingrad… how many German planes were shot down trying to?  How many were JU52s were shot down in 41?  That says it all.

    Yea, you just said the exact samething I said but with more words and details.  Where are you going with this?  :?



  • You’re right, Zooey- Hitler was absolutely the driving force behind Germany being in position to bring Europe to its knees in the first place.

    But the question was- How could Germany have won the war? My take on the question is that it’s once the war had already begun.

    Hitler brought Germany to the edge of astounding success, but through a series of horrible decisions led them instead to ruin.



  • Oh god, Hitler’s F ups?  I can write a book on them, and many have.  Anyone with a passing knowledge of WW2 (which i think most of you have posting on this board) would know them.  To make it short (both ends of the war), why attack in 39… and why throw away your last remaining assets in the Bulge?

    Hitler knew what a corporal would know as far as tactics go,  and that is the rank he achieved when he fought in WW1.  The gains that Germany got early in the war (and why they were able to fight such a great def. battle after 42) were because of people like Rommel, kesserling, guadarian, and many others.

    All that has to be said about Hilter running the military is that when the Normandy landings were happening, no one wanted to wake up good ole adolf because it was too early.  1000s of Germans were dying, but they died it for a good cause, Hitler needed his sleep.


  • 2007 AAR League

    Bulge almost worked, actually it was a good surprise attack that the allies couldnt even think could happen.  ONce again the circumstances.


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