Global 1940 Italy before UK?



  • Has anyone given any thought to moving the Italy turn to before UK.  This would create more balance between Allied turns and give Italy a little boost it could use?


  • 2019 2017 '16

    @MMC:

    Has anyone given any thought to moving the Italy turn to before UK.  This would create more balance between Allied turns and give Italy a little boost it could use?

    With no setup changes? Italy could crush too much of the UK in the med. I reckon it could take Alexandria, SZ98 and probably Egypt with the bomber. UK would have no comebacks. By I3, Italy should have Iraq, UK wouldn’t be able to hold Persia.

    Not a starter on its own.

    But welcome to the fourm.



  • I like the idea of Italy before UK in G40: because it allows Italy to beat UK easier in Africa which I agree isn’t historical at all, it will force UK and US to actually do something about going into Africa; IE UK will actually have to use South Africa and US might have to land in Africa instead of Spain or Norway. Plus the added effect is that it will allow USSR to take some heat against Italy as it will have to worry even more about a possible third front from Persia.


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16

    I think Italy before UK makes sense if France can go before Germany.


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Italy should be neutral turn 1 until they decide. IN the real war they did not enter until Germany took Paris. And they did push UK around in late 1940, which is historical



  • @Imperious:

    Italy should be neutral turn 1 until they decide. IN the real war they did not enter until Germany took Paris. And they did push UK around in late 1940, which is historical

    I totally agree, but UK is at war and what should stop UK from attacking a neutral Italy ? The same special rule that stop UK from attacking neutral Japan ? Or another special rule ?


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    UK cant attack Italy till turn when Italy enters the war



  • The problem with doing that rule forcing Italy to start the war with UK is that it ignores game logic. Forcing UK to be the victim to Italy means you should also force ANZAC and UK to be a victim of Japanese aggression however no one in their right mind would allow Japan walk all over China. So the game if it forces Axis to be aggressive, you should add a rule that UK can declare war of Italy but suffers some kind of backlash for it.


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    No. the rule only accounts that Italy is neutral. It has nothing to do with ANZAC or other effects. The only effect is against UK and they have a turn to move out of harms way, while the Axis have one less nation acting aggressive. It is Italy that takes it in the shorts, not UK as they lose alot of their dynamic. in 1940 they were toe to toe with UK and this allows this. The Historical sequence is Germany takes Paris, Italy pushes UK around in Africa, Then Taranto raid. Its not Germany takes Paris, Italy cant land anybody, and Italy loses 75% of her fleet before she enters the war. Larry was just lazy with the dates/sequence and didn’t want to figure it out after play-test data came in, because it would be a waste of resources replaying all those games. When it was play-tested Taranto probably wasn’t thought of or tried.



  • The problem is that you are forcing UK to sit on their a$$ while Italy has all the time in the world to build, you said that Italy starts neutral and can not go to war with UK unless THEY make the first move which makes the British fleet in the Med free to leave but also forces UK to watch and see Italy reinforce Africa all they want, this can be abused by Italy as Italy can target neutral and French colonies freely as USSR lacks a med fleet in G40 and US doesn’t want to fight.


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Before France fell, UK did sit on their A$$. they had no idea what was going on. Its like having Russia play before Germany and attacking her in 1939. Its the same rule that they out on them… they cant attack unless they are attacked or until latter. You just do the same with Italy


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    Italy should be Neutral on UK’s turn 1. It gives Italy some punch now in game. Other wise as simon stated you then would have to probably change setup a bit if Italy went before UK.

    Why ask ? Just to see if anybody has tried it ? As I always say play test it.

    Try a test game with Russia going before Germany and UK cannot attack neutral Italy only on turn 1. But Italy can attack UK on turn 1.



  • So lets test this in my mind. Italy is neutral to UK on turn 1 so Italian colonies are in better shape, Ethiopia can protect it self and if it wants, break UK’s NO easier. Italian Marina can link up and reinforce Africa or even crazier, can pull units out of it. I think the biggest advantage is that it can allow Italy to invade Syria which means that Iraq is basically going to convert to Italy. This will allow the “Roman Empire” NO be easier for Italy to get as it can go after the three corners unopposed.


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    @Caesar:

    So lets test this in my mind. Italy is neutral to UK on turn 1 so Italian colonies are in better shape, Ethiopia can protect it self and if it wants, break UK’s NO easier. Italian Marina can link up and reinforce Africa or even crazier, can pull units out of it. I think the biggest advantage is that it can allow Italy to invade Syria which means that Iraq is basically going to convert to Italy. This will allow the “Roman Empire” NO be easier for Italy to get as it can go after the three corners unopposed.

    What no pics ?


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    And with that AAE40 will have no bid or a very small one


  • 2019 2017 '16

    With Italy starting neutral you would still need setup changes. In particular you would at least need to remove the sz96 transport.

    What’s this talk about these changes reducing the bid? They would increase it!  :?



  • I think the whole point of having Italy before UK is so that Italy will have full access to their navy.



  • @Caesar:

    you should add a rule that UK can declare war of Italy but suffers some kind of backlash for it.

    I think you are on to something. In fact every player, except USA, should be free to declare war on any enemy or neutral, but if they do they will suffer a backlash. USA did not have this freedom of DOW because they had the Congress, but every other nation could. The only ting that prevented them from making favorable DOW,s were fear of suffering backlashes. In fact every nation that unprovocely attacked innocent neighbours did in fact get banned and blocked from the international trade. When Benito attacked France, then Italy was denied American oil the next day, forcing Germany to share the Romanian oil, which led to all Italian battleships staying in port for the rest of the war. Same with UK, they wanted to attack neutral Norway and Sweden to cut of the iron ore trade, but did not dare that because USA warned that in that case they would be banned from trade, so they had to wait and let Adolf do the first move.

    I suggest that the German 5 IPC trade NO can be used on every playing nation. Every player start with a 5 IPC international trade NO. If you make an unprovoced attack on any neutral or enemy not yet at war power, then you lose that 5 IPC NO. But if you are the victim then you keep it. Now UK must decide if an unprovoced Taranto raid is favorable, or is it better to let Italy make the first move. I think this is in the spirit of A&A, and all the silly special rules we have seen the last years are not. Tanks you for listening, man



  • Since G40 “tries” to favor history in their NO and actions of war, UK understood at some point they would end up at war with Italy due to Italian alliance with Germany which Germany is a belligerent against UK so I’d try to work something along those lines.


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