Mare Nostrum

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

I started playing through the strategy with a relative standard UK move in the Med area:  a successful Taranto sunk the SZ97 fleet with the loss of a cruiser (about average).  Ethiopia also fell on UK1, with the help of a transport from India along with a cruiser bombard.  Net cost: 1 infantry.

Italy responded with the proposed I1 move, succeeding with a lucky Greece attack but failing badly in Yugo with the very weak amount of forces sent in there.  Tunisia fell with no casualties.  At the end of turn 1, Italy collected 7 PUs.  Convoy raids cost 5.  This leads them with too little money to buy that planned I2 factory in Greece.

By turn 2, I have the following Allied forces in Egypt: 7 inf + 1 mech + 3 art + tank + tac + 2 fighter + bomber

If Italy attacks on I2, there still will be 9 units left in Egypt.  Building an Allied airbase in Egypt also wrecks the plan.  Now on to Germany:  you will likely to have lost 4 planes during the first couple of rounds of attacks.  That leaves you with 9 German planes.  I also only see one transport that can reach Egypt on G3.  There is a good chance that you could take the territory IF you are willing to sacrifice your entire German air force to achieve the goal.

Delay the attack by another round and the Uk forces in Egypt will grow much bigger with additional fighters flown in and ground troops transported over.  You aren’t taking it unless you devote almost nothing into the Russia campaign.  I don’t think that is a wise plan since you also have to deal with America who can build mostly transports because Germany sacrificed too many planes.

Perhaps you can explore the details of building an aircraft carrier on G1, bringing it into the Med by G3, and then launching attacks of opportunity starting on G4.  If you can keep the Med clear, you get an Axis bonus, can deny UK a bonus, and prevent those pesky convoy raids against Rome.

[MarshmallowofWar]

Perhaps he doesn’t build with Italy on I1, which would give him enough for a factory in Greece. But why bother? He already has a 13 unit capacity in sea zones 96 and 97…

Baffled…

[Afrikakorps]

Thanks for the feedback!

I plan to eventually start playing TripleA. I indeed love writing about it and looking at the board for things to try out, but only play twice a year. This will be my last strategy for now, soon will try them.

Some reactions:

We now had two games in a row the Axis (not me) took Greece in its first turn, however I see the point. Three lucky hits and Italy is toast. As Greece is crucial to the plan, I will need to to look how to do this.

I indeed forgot UK navy convoying!

Ethiopia is very uncommon in our play, only I have used it so far. Usually UK pacific liberate Itan as soon as possible. I should be prepared however.

G1 attack the UK cruiser for the med, S110, S111, S106. Reinforce Tobruk with two fighters. I could also reinforce Italy with 2 fighters and a tactical for scrambling. Especially with the cruiser taken out this might complicate things for the UK1.

G2 attack med fleets, morocco, luftwaffe lands in africa.

The Grand Strategy is that the Axis Europe are in a much stronger position to attack Russia when they have control over the oil fields. In order to control the oil fields you have to secure the two gateways (Egypt and Caucasus). This gives Germany extra income but especially Italy benefits most and becomes a third major Axis (instead of minor). If I have to adjust my buys, or wait for my attack on Russia, that is OK. However, I do not want to buy fleet for Germany besides 1-3 transports to attack Egypt from Southern Greece.

I could also DOW4 with Germany and build
G1: 2 bombers, 1 sub
G2: 4 bombers, 3 transports
G3: 10 tanks
G4: 10 tanks

That gives G3 attack on Egypt all 3 infantry, 3 artillery, 8 bombers + all surviving luftwaffe.

Also very important: when Egypt / Middle East is secured by the Axis, the UK can not send stacks of fighters to Moscow. Therefore taking Moscow as Germany will be easier than normal.

[Omega1759]

G1 attack the UK cruiser for the med, S110, S111, S106. Reinforce Tobruk with two fighters. I could also reinforce Italy with 2 fighters and a tactical for scrambling. Especially with the cruiser taken out this might complicate things for the UK1.

You attack S110, S111 with what?

How can 2 German fighters make it to Tobruk, 2 fighters to Southern Italy and one Tactical to Southern Italy? None of these planes can attack 110/111.

I do this G1 as well and the Death Star clears out the Med!

[Cow]

My opponents won’t play Allies unless they have a 24 bid now a days.

It is really hard to bust Egypt when the Allies place 2 subs 2 Arty 1 mech

[Afrikakorps]

@Omega1759:

G1 attack the UK cruiser for the med, S110, S111, S106. Reinforce Tobruk with two fighters. I could also reinforce Italy with 2 fighters and a tactical for scrambling. Especially with the cruiser taken out this might complicate things for the UK1.

You attack S110, S111 with what?

How can 2 German fighters make it to Tobruk, 2 fighters to Southern Italy and one Tactical to Southern Italy? None of these planes can attack 110/111.

I do this G1 as well and the Death Star clears out the Med!

Lol tobruk OR southern italy

S110 = 1 sub, 2 fighters, 3 tactical bombers, 2 bomber
S111 = 1 sub, 1 battleship, 1 fighter, 1 tactical bomber
S106 = 2 subs
S91 = 1 sub

France = 1 tactical, 1 fighter, 2 mech, 6 infantry, 2 artillery, 4 tanks
Normandy = 1 infantry, 1 artillery, 1 tank
Southern France = 1 tank, 2 mech
Yugoslavia = 7 infantry, 2 artillery, 1 fighter

I see indeed miscalculation, only 2 fighters in rome, no tactical bomber

[Lil Blue Spider]

Again, you are spreading yourself way too thin here!

S111 = 1 sub, 1 battleship, 1 fighter, 1 tactical bomber

-> Scottish Fighter Scrambles, making it a fight slightly in the favour of the British. (2, 4, 3, 4 against 2, 3, 4 and 4, but you will lose one 4 if your fighter has to go down).
In S110 you are bound to lose a fighter.

Normandy and especially Southern France are gambles and you will likely lose a lot in France itself especially if that AA hits something. S91 is not in your favour either.

Not to mention that in this plan you would be sending 3 German transports without any form of escort down. With the RAF (or even the French fighter from London) looking for every opportunity to take that down, you would only really be safe if you stuck to Italian seas and a scramble there. But then, that defeats the purpose of sending them down in the first place.

Not to mention this would all leave London free to do as it pleases with 2 transports and 2 destroyers left and no real worries about the Luftwaffe which you send down to the Med. And Russia might also just go more aggressive as long as it sees you are not in a position to attack yet and stack on your border.

Do not get me wrong, I favour an empower Italy strategy. But you try to do everything at the same time and that usually means all will fail or succeed with marginal troops left over. The advantage that Axis turn 1 have is a sheer might of numbers. Do not easily discard that in your plans. Overpower, do not go for even fights where the allies stand a chance with a good roll of the dice.

[Afrikakorps]

I could send another sub to S111 instead of S106, however because of the strafe and the importance of killing the S106 destroyer + transport (as otherwise gibraltar might be reinforced I am not sure if it is worth it. I could also leave the cruiser of S91 alone for another hit on S110. However killing that cruiser might mean NO taranto. Also scrambling in S110 usually means, no taranto, especially when there are German fighters in Rome.

I can lose 1-2 planes in G1. However in a S110 trade and therefore stopping taranto I am able to trade, as I do not have to use those planes to mop up S97 in G2.

I could stall both Normany and Southern France for a turn and wait patiently for G4 to attack Egypt so that the atlantic ships (bismarck) can protect the transports. The normal fighters can not attack the transport, however that british bomber is indeed able to sink them before they arrive in Egypt.

London has 1 transport and 1 destroyer in the atlantic but I will have build bombers and the German fleet is still in the Atlantic at the start of G3.

The plan is based on the quote of a fellow Axis and Allies player

The best way to force your hand in Egypt as Germany is to land heavy air Tobruk first turn (atleast 2 fighters).  Build two bombers G1.

Italy moves into Alexandria I1 no issue, or obliterates the allies stationed there.

G2, Build all bombers again, and land ALL planes in Alexandria (or bombers in Rome).   You should have 12-14 planes in Alexandria and upwards of another 5 in West Germany.  Egypt cannot stop a G3 air blitz; and UK cannot counter the italians in Alexandria.  At best the british can run.  (which happens 3/4 times).  Bombers can be used against the Russians G2 during attack if necessary.

• If the british run, Italy walks into Egypt I2; Germany builds mech and continues terrorizing Russia.  Land enough German fighters in EGY to hold against british counter attack.

• If the British try to hold, Italy can strafe for a turn, or if it makes most sense - Germany alone pounds Egypt into dust G3.

The cherry on top - if you load a german infantry G2 into an Italian transport, it can land on a subsequent turn for the +5.

Yes - this manuever is expensive; and costs air power.   But it also costs the UK it’s traditional airpower arriving in Russia, and gives the Italians a huge boost.

If America does not intervene, Italy becomes a monster.  If America does intervene, Japan becomes a monster.

This is why I usually prefer to skip Taranto, and nuke Tobruk as allies now.

I could go for the strike on Egypt in G4 with 4 more bombers and the Atlantic fleet joining the amphibious assault if G3 is not a good idea.

G1: 2 bombers
G2: 5 bombers
G3: 4 bombers

[Afrikakorps]

As germany I will indeed buy 5 more bombers in G2. Also no unprotected transport by Southern France. Maybe just the troops from Morocco in G2 to Egypt in G4 for the bonus while doing an airstrike only in G3.

Italy still takes gibraltar, alexandria and greece in I1. All other attacks are bonus but not a must. It can save it income, however it must build a minor factory in I2 to work as that allows invading Caucasus in I4.

G5 should collect 20 IPC with NO

• Sweden
• Egypt
• Leningrad
• Caucasus

I2 should collect 15 IPC with NO

• Gibraltar
• Northern Africa
• Med

My assumption is that in case Italy is unleashed and Egypt in Axis control, it does not matter how much planes Germany has lost, as both are so rich that they will be able to win against Russia.

[Afrikakorps]

@Arthur:

I started playing through the strategy with a relative standard UK move in the Med area:  a successful Taranto sunk the SZ97 fleet with the loss of a cruiser (about average).  Ethiopia also fell on UK1, with the help of a transport from India along with a cruiser bombard.  Net cost: 1 infantry.

Italy responded with the proposed I1 move, succeeding with a lucky Greece attack but failing badly in Yugo with the very weak amount of forces sent in there.  Tunisia fell with no casualties.  At the end of turn 1, Italy collected 7 PUs.  Convoy raids cost 5.  This leads them with too little money to buy that planned I2 factory in Greece.

By turn 2, I have the following Allied forces in Egypt: 7 inf + 1 mech + 3 art + tank + tac + 2 fighter + bomber

If Italy attacks on I2, there still will be 9 units left in Egypt.  Building an Allied airbase in Egypt also wrecks the plan.  Now on to Germany:  you will likely to have lost 4 planes during the first couple of rounds of attacks.  That leaves you with 9 German planes.  I also only see one transport that can reach Egypt on G3.  There is a good chance that you could take the territory IF you are willing to sacrifice your entire German air force to achieve the goal.

Delay the attack by another round and the Uk forces in Egypt will grow much bigger with additional fighters flown in and ground troops transported over.  You aren’t taking it unless you devote almost nothing into the Russia campaign.  I don’t think that is a wise plan since you also have to deal with America who can build mostly transports because Germany sacrificed too many planes.

Perhaps you can explore the details of building an aircraft carrier on G1, bringing it into the Med by G3, and then launching attacks of opportunity starting on G4.  If you can keep the Med clear, you get an Axis bonus, can deny UK a bonus, and prevent those pesky convoy raids against Rome.

I indeed start to like the aircraft carrier buy on G1. I think I will change the G1 buy to
G1: 1 Aircraft Carrier, 1 Bomber

I hope that it will give a strong Sea Lion signal to UK, building defensively, not scrambling and not doing taranto attack. However I will not place fighters on it, as they would be useless anyway against Morocco. Maybe this invites a UK1 attack on S112 (as also the wounded Bismarck is there), maybe the UK fleet gathers in S109. In G2 I can attack that fleet with my fleet + bombers (1 battleship, 1 cruiser, 1 carrier, 3 bombers) starting to convoy the UK while the bombers can still participate on a Egypt G3 strike and that transport still takes Morocco in G2.

To make the other attacks a bit safer, I will only get 1 fighter to Tobruk or Rome, likely Tobruk as the Carrier + destroyed Cruiser will likely influence the UK player to do not do Taranto.

This changes my attacks a bit
S110 = 1 sub, 3 fighters, 3 tactical bombers, 1 bomber
S111 = 1 sub, 1 battleship, 1 tactical, 1 fighter, 1 bomber
S106 = 1 sub
S91 = 2 subs

Italy
Greece (2 Infantry, Tank, Bomber, Fighter)
Alexandria (Tank, 1 Artillery, 3 Infantry)
Tunesia (1 Mech, 1 Artillery, 1 Infantry)
Gibraltar with 1 transport and destroyer (1 Tank, 1 Inf)
Yugo still with 2 Art and 2 Inf, after German strafe this should be enough
French with 1 Cruiser, 1 Fighter, 1 Sub

However with my Taranto fleet alive I have 2 transports, 1 Battleship, 2 Cruisers, 1 Destroyer and 1 Sub and lots of options.

The big benefit from the 2 subs attacking the Cruiser is that if the UK still did Taranto and has its fleet in S97, the surviving subs can act as fodder. Or it forces the UK destroyer to hunt them down and be in S91, where I also want to be in my G2.

[Argothair]

I love the idea of a strong Italy and especially of exploiting the Greece / Black Sea connection, but your battleplan just doesn’t sound practical to me. Some other commenters have touched on some important reasons why the Allies will almost always win against your Mare Nostrum plan, including (a) Taranto attack drains Italy’s income, (b) UK Atlantic fleet left free to plunder Norway, © high chance of losing battles against UK fleets with so many planes down south, and (d) Moscow is probably safe if you sacrifice that many planes against Egyptian ground units.

Here are two more reasons that I don’t see in the comments yet:
(e) there’s not as much income in the Middle East as you think, especially early on, and
(f) your Black Sea fleet is very insecure, and
(g) Allies can fly fighters to Moscow via the northern route.

So, don’t get me wrong, there’s plenty of money in the Middle East, but maybe not as much as you think. New Roman Empire is 5 bucks, Persian Oil is 6 bucks if you get all three territories, and Egypt + Jordan + Syria + Iraq + Persia = 8 bucks. So that’s 19 bucks a turn. You’re not going to be able to break into Stalingrad / Caucasus money until later in the game, if at all, because there are just too many territories in the way. If you’re taking Egypt on I4, then even with perfect can-openers, that means you get to Iraq on I5, Northwest Persia on I6, and you don’t get to Caucasus until I7. Income you collect on I7 doesn’t help you at all with a G8 attack on Moscow, and if you’re much later than G8, you’ve lost your window of opportunity. At that point the Americans have contained Japan and are pouring fighters into Europe.

So let’s say you collect an extra $19 per turn on I4, I5, I6, and I7. That’s less than 80 bucks. If you throw away 8 German planes to take Egypt (easy enough to do when there are 12 land units defending Egypt), then there’s your $80 right there. You’re not actually making a profit here.

Next up is your Black Sea fleet, which apparently is defended by nothing more than 1 airbase with 3 German fighters. Russia starts with 3 planes. When they see you fly 3 German fighters to Greece on G3, then if they’re thinking clearly, they’ll buy 2 more planes on R3. Those planes will be perfectly helpful for trading and defense of Moscow; it’s a reasonable purchase. Then if you try dropping 2 Italian transports in the black sea on I3, then on R4 the Russians attack your transports with 5 planes, and if you scramble the 3 German fighters, then the Germans lose all 3 planes for only an average of 2 Russian planes, which is fine for Russia.

Finally, taking Cairo and Leningrad isn’t enough to stop the flow of fighters to Moscow. You need to take Archangel, which is not going to happen if you’re buying bombers and sending your planes south. Planes from a London airbase can reach Archangel in one move, and then can fly to Moscow from there – there’s no requirement that Allied planes flow through Egypt / the Mideast.

[simon33]

@Cow:

My opponents won’t play Allies unless they have a 24 bid now a days.

It is really hard to bust Egypt when the Allies place 2 subs 2 Arty 1 mech

But busting Egypt before Moscow is a pretty non standard play. Does the second sub go into SZ91?

[Afrikakorps]

My new German buys will be

G1: 6 Artillery, 1 Sub (S125)
G2: 5 Bombers (G3 Egypt Raid)
G3: 8 Mech, 2 Tanks
G4+: Bomber Spam

Germany swarms the med and Egypt with its Luftwaffe while preparing a concentrated slow push for Moscow G6 by DOW3. Lack of second round fast movers will be compensated with extra bombers for punch.

[weddingsinger]

I do love having a lot of bombers and a couple of subs available because it makes Gibraltor a difficult spot for the U.S./UK unless they over spend (then Japan can win)

Or use bombers to sink UK transports in Southern side of Suez Canal or even in the SZ next to Ethiopia (you have to land there, but to sink 2 transports?  totally worth losing 1 bomber)

And if you’ve still got lots of bombers after round 3, you can just use them to annihilate Russia or slip a few over to China and help Japan.

[Afrikakorps]

@weddingsinger:

I do love having a lot of bombers and a couple of subs available because it makes Gibraltor a difficult spot for the U.S./UK unless they over spend (then Japan can win)

Or use bombers to sink UK transports in Southern side of Suez Canal or even in the SZ next to Ethiopia (you have to land there, but to sink 2 transports?  totally worth losing 1 bomber)

And if you’ve still got lots of bombers after round 3, you can just use them to annihilate Russia or slip a few over to China and help Japan.

Yes I agree, upgrading your Luftwaffe from 2 to 7/8 bombers in G2 will add a lot of flexibility to your play I think, especially because all Allies need to take their firepower and range into account. Kill that small UK fleet, bomb Russia to hell, strike Egypt, prevent USA landings etc. That artillery buy G1 will add some nice body and punch to your Russian stack while still keeping Sea Lion open.

[A Former User]

What do you all think is busting / clearing Egypt with the Luftwaffe worth? It’s some “ok, it will cost me x planes and that’s fine”-acceptance or could it even cost nearly all of the Luftwaffe and that would be fine, too?

[Witt]

I don’t think it would be worth it and have  never done it. Better to conserve your Air for  flexibility.

[weddingsinger]

@hecatomb:

What do you all think is busting / clearing Egypt with the Luftwaffe worth? It’s some “ok, it will cost me x planes and that’s fine”-acceptance or could it even cost nearly all of the Luftwaffe and that would be fine, too?

It REALLY depends on a few things:

How many planes will you lose?
Will Italy be able to keep it?
Can you get a German unit into Cairo, too, to get your NO bonus which would help pay for the lost planes?

[A Former User]

Answer it for me without having a detailed example. Does this tactical advantage could become a strategical disadvantage in the long game? Or would this raid mean a strategic goal, even with short-term hindrance?

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

If the SZ 110 dice go slightly against the Axis on the first round of rolling, UK might take take 3 hits while the Axis takes 4. The Germans would lose three planes which changes the odds in Moscow on G6. Meanwhile UK is left with an intact battleship and needs two fewer loaded carriers to defend the fleet compared to normal. That is a horrible first round. My guesstimate is that the odds of Axis victory would drop from an initial 75% down to 40% just from one slightly bad round of dice rolls. Why take that risk?

Play conservative when you have an advantage. Take more risks if you are falling behind in the game.