The Inherent Problem with Axis and Allies



  • Hey so I have one issue with Axis and Allies.

    Say the Allies have liberated France, took Poland, and are on the doorsteps of Berlin. That’s where what I like to call “phony war” syndrome. Its where both sides do not want to attack each other. For if the Allies attack, and lose, then Germany survives and may have enough to take back some territories. Germany Doesn’t what to attack, cause he will lose his capital. Its even worse for Japan. With Some foresight, Japan can become a fortress, having huge stacks of infantry, and lots of planes. Its almost impossible to amphibious assault Japan with Transports. Maybe if it was like one round of combat, it would fix this. Eventually however, the Allies just out produce Germany and maybe Japan, but it takes longer than it should. Any suggestions?



  • The problem is that you can’t fix what would of happened in real life. Your issue with Germany and Italy doesn’t happen in the games. If UK and US are in France with France as a returned power and USSR in Poland. Both allied factions will take turns attacking Germany, true Germany will not have any power to launch an invasion but USSR and the West will take turns seeing who captures Berlin. Japan however cannot escape her fate. You basically will have to naval bombard and air strike the hell out of that island or being a massive invasion force, no way around it. However, very rarely does the Axis powers play a game to the last man, usually when their fate is sealed, they just surrender.


  • 2019 2017 2016

    A title like “Victory conditions for the Allies” would be much more helpful!

    Yes, they suck.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Multi round combat is the key thing that allows the Axis who as a total aggregate are in a deficit compared to the Allies. The compensation is to allow the Axis to use their superior forces to attack and destroy the allies, then slowly gain an economic balance. That story line is prevalent in every AA game and it can’t be changed. Its not impossible to invade Japan, you need to play more games and gain an understanding .



  • @DessertFox599:

    Hey so I have one issue with Axis and Allies.

    Say the Allies have liberated France, took Poland, and are on the doorsteps of Berlin. That’s where what I like to call “phony war” syndrome. Its where both sides do not want to attack each other. For if the Allies attack, and lose, then Germany survives and may have enough to take back some territories. Germany Doesn’t what to attack, cause he will lose his capital. Its even worse for Japan. With Some foresight, Japan can become a fortress, having huge stacks of infantry, and lots of planes. Its almost impossible to amphibious assault Japan with Transports. Maybe if it was like one round of combat, it would fix this. Eventually however, the Allies just out produce Germany and maybe Japan, but it takes longer than it should. Any suggestions?

    As allies you will win in this scenario, japan will have 0 income, US has over 80. Us can put 4 BB next to japan and land 2 inf 2 art each turn and basicaly kill off 3-4 defenders a round. Sure takes a few rounds this way but you will in. You can have UK pac join in with a few inf as well. Just bombard them to hell every turn, worst case you lose your land forces and dont do damage that turn, big deal japan does not produce every inf is 1 that never comes back.

    Germany has what 10 income, every other country next to it has 50+ income same deal, just attack with russia then UK and then france even if you lose germany will not have much left to attack with, and your reinforcements will be there also so germany isnt going anywhere. If you dont take it the first time you take it the next time.



  • Exactly. If you’re knocking on Axis home land, in no way shape or form can the Allies powers NOT capture Axis capitals unless the Allies play very badly or somehow Axis are getting insane rolls, you basically have the game in the bag.


  • 2017 2016

    Oh, I totally misread the topic post… I thought this was going to be about finding local opponents to play!  😐



  • You face the same problem in every game known to mankind.  There is always a way to stall or cheat or knock the table over to prevent defeat.  The solution is to only play with opponents who will surrender when they have no chance of winning.  If the Axis have no conceivable way to get their victory conditions but refuse to give up, claim that you have to feed your goldfish, congratulate the opponent on “winning” the game, and never play him again. Life is too short to waste hours of it going through 5-10 rounds before you inevitably conquer everywhere.


  • 2017 2016 2015

    the game represents the German and Japanese leaders of WWII well in this regard @Arthur:

    …  If the Axis have no conceivable way to get their victory conditions but refuse to give up, …before you inevitably conquer everywhere.

    🙂



  • Just do what I do. I force the enemy to completely defeat me. This is easy to do if you’re an island nation or the US.



  • @Arthur:

    You face the same problem in every game known to mankind.  There is always a way to stall or cheat or knock the table over to prevent defeat.  The solution is to only play with opponents who will surrender when they have no chance of winning.  If the Axis have no conceivable way to get their victory conditions but refuse to give up, claim that you have to feed your goldfish, congratulate the opponent on “winning” the game, and never play him again. Life is too short to waste hours of it going through 5-10 rounds before you inevitably conquer everywhere.

    Once your the only person playing it doesnt take that long as you can basicaly do the same thing every round.
    Since both germany and italy are not making any money ( str-bombing vs germany and convoy raiding vs japan ) he can only sit there while you are playing the game.

    Under those conditions 10 rounds can be played in like 1 hour max. You know what to buy what to move and the attack is the same. I doubt that after 2 rounds he will want to continue.



  • I guess this is really a problem in games like revised where there is no way to convoy. I mean, this scenario doesnt happen often, but it has happened.



  • In old school Axis and Allies, this was a problem as I was once Japan and Germany was captured outright so before the big push against the Japanese, I just began to stack infantry on the home island until I couldn’t any more. I had around 78 infantry and refused to surrender until they beat it down to the ground.



  • @DessertFox599:

    I guess this is really a problem in games like revised where there is no way to convoy. I mean, this scenario doesnt happen often, but it has happened.

    No problem as strat bombing did direct damage to your cash supply so same difference, sure the allies lose a bomber once in a while but whats the big deal if you make 200 and the other guy makes 8 a round.

    In old school Axis and Allies, this was a problem as I was once Japan and Germany was captured outright so before the big push against the Japanese, I just began to stack infantry on the home island until I couldn’t any more. I had around 78 infantry and refused to surrender until they beat it down to the ground.

    But in that version you just bought 10 battleships, put 1 inf on land and had 10 bombardment shots. Yes it will be a verry boring game, but as opponent i would insist you stay at the table the whole duration not doing anything but roll your dice once a round. and yes refusing to surrender if there is no way you can ever win is just bad sports. If there is a slim chance where the opponent makes a mistake or you get a few nice rolls fair enough. If japan i surrounded only on the home islands with a huge fleet around it your chances of winning are 0.



  • @DessertFox599:

    Hey so I have one issue with Axis and Allies.

    Say the Allies have liberated France, took Poland, and are on the doorsteps of Berlin. That’s where what I like to call “phony war” syndrome. Its where both sides do not want to attack each other. For if the Allies attack, and lose, then Germany survives and may have enough to take back some territories. Germany Doesn’t what to attack, cause he will lose his capital. Its even worse for Japan. With Some foresight, Japan can become a fortress, having huge stacks of infantry, and lots of planes. Its almost impossible to amphibious assault Japan with Transports. Maybe if it was like one round of combat, it would fix this. Eventually however, the Allies just out produce Germany and maybe Japan, but it takes longer than it should. Any suggestions?

    I am not an expert on this, but isn’t this the reason they gave us Victory Cities, so we dont need to capture the Capitals any more ?

    On your suggestion about one round of combat, I think that fits the A&A 1914 game very well, with trench warfare and the meat grinder, and men moving on their feets. But, as far as I understand, WWII was more of a Blitzkrieg experience, with fast moving halftracks, Tanks, aircrafts. I dont see why a Tank, or a Fighter, should fire one round, then take a long rest and holiday, waiting for the next season. The supply chain moved pretty fast, so lack of supply was never an issue during WWII. And I dont think A&A 1914 plays out much faster than the other A&A games



  • @Narvik:

    ….lack of supply was never an issue during WWII…

    Oh yes, it was.

    @Caesar:

    In old school Axis and Allies, this was a problem as I was once Japan and Germany was captured outright so before the big push against the Japanese, I just began to stack infantry on the home island until I couldn’t any more. I had around 78 infantry and refused to surrender until they beat it down to the ground.

    I have seen this in a game too, but the stack was tanks in Japan  :roll: The Allies invested heavy in research and eventually got rockets and heavy bombers. That Tokyo stack of tanks came down pretty fast.



  • The point I am trying to make is that if the allies are not pushing into capitals, it’s because those players are being too conservative when they don’t need to be. Even though if you have allies knocking on your door, I am pointing out the purpose of refusing to surrender is pointless and just stalls the game to prove a point which I make by making you force your hand to win. I do this in Axis and Allies, I do this in RTS games. OP is trying to point out a problem that simply doesn’t exist.


  • 2019 2017 2016

    @Herr:

    @Narvik:

    ….lack of supply was never an issue during WWII…

    Oh yes, it was.

    Yeah, the Allies paused their assault after D-Day I think shortly before reaching the Rhine because of a lack of supplies. Supplies were also an issue in the Solomons for the Allies IIRC.

    :?



  • Not tomention russia as well. Germany lost an entire army and general due to suppliea and being encircled.

    Thx for the suggestions. I never thought about buying bb. Good catch!


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '12

    I don’t get this post.

    If the Allies control all of Europe except Germany, the IPC swing would be so huge that the allies could make up any losses if their attack on Berlin failed….

    Also, how could it fail if the allies are that far in?  They’ve got have tons of stuff already… if not, then how did they get there?

    Turtling is not a viable strategy for the Axis under any circumstance.  Even for Japan.  You convoy the heck out of them, build up a bunch of bombers and knock them off.  The IPC swing in favor of the allies would be insane such that they could make up any losses in a blink of an eye.



  • OP seems to think that any player would chicken out at the last second when trying to capture the capital and either build or play very conservative. Which doesn’t make sense as if you’re knocking on your enemies capital, the best move is to attack as odds are, your enemy is very weak. It makes sense the side that lost the initiative would play defense as Germany exactly did, it never mounted a major offensive inside Germany when the allies were taking German cities. But I don’t get why he thinks the other side would cower out unless he plays against players who do that. I play as the USSR and usually when UK and US enters France, I begin my massive invasion.



  • @Caesar:

    OP seems to think that any player would chicken out at the last second when trying to capture the capital and either build or play very conservative. Which doesn’t make sense as if you’re knocking on your enemies capital, the best move is to attack as odds are, your enemy is very weak. It makes sense the side that lost the initiative would play defense as Germany exactly did, it never mounted a major offensive inside Germany when the allies were taking German cities. But I don’t get why he thinks the other side would cower out unless he plays against players who do that. I play as the USSR and usually when UK and US enters France, I begin my massive invasion.

    Still even if the allies play conservatively in this situation they are building units while the axis are not building anything. Combined with a russia-> US->UK->France attack on germany even if they all lose germany will be so weak next round will do the trick.
    And still that is the problem of the axis player really, he cannot do anything but sit there and wait while the allied player is building up forces or he can surrender.
    I know only a few people that want to sit for hours at the table waiting for someone else to play.



  • @Herr:

    @Narvik:

    ….lack of supply was never an issue during WWII…

    Oh yes, it was.

    Lack of supplies was the only issue in WWII



  • Dunno where’s the problem. I really like a “>50 TT / 90 Inf Finale” on the shores of Japan. Bought some extra dice though…
    Honestly, it’s 4 vs. one. After an attack of 30 russian planes and the bombardment of some ANZAC BBs, the US can bring a huge invasion force built up in no time, and  the UK can easily walk in if necessary.



  • @Wicked:

    Dunno where’s the problem. I really like a “>50 TT / 90 Inf Finale” on the shores of Japan. Bought some extra dice though…
    Honestly, it’s 4 vs. one. After an attack of 30 russian planes and the bombardment of some ANZAC BBs, the US can bring a huge invasion force built up in no time, and  the UK can easily walk in if necessary.

    Well i dont like the inevitable but im also playing with 120 dice of 4 collors just to speed things up.

    But i will generaly give up if there is no chance to win anymore, ofcourse if by delaying the inevitable on 1 side i gain time to maby win on the other side i will do that.


Log in to reply
 

Suggested Topics

  • 17
  • 27
  • 3
  • 2
  • 24
  • 62
  • 16
  • 6
I Will Never Grow Up Games
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures
Dean's Army Guys

75
Online

13.6k
Users

34.0k
Topics

1.3m
Posts