Hey Baron, I respect your math a lot when it come to game mechanics… here are the modifications.
Mechanized Infantry
Cost - 5 IPCs
Move - 2
Attack - 1 (2 when combined with an artillery unit)
Defense - 2
Special abilities:
_Each mechanized infantry unit may pull an artillery unit up to 2 spaces during the combat movement phase, or non combat movement phase (both units must originate from the same territory).
Mechanized infantry may blitz when combined with a tank (both units must originate from the same territory), however, mechanized infantry may not pull artillery units when blitzing with a tank._
@Young:
Hey Baron, I respect your math a lot when it come to game mechanics… here are the modifications.
Thanks.
Oups…
This time I was more on a feeling than a complex calculation. :-D
I play with Stug III as Mech Art/Assault Gun. And they have higher combat values for the 5 IPCs.
my MODIFICATION:
Mechanized Infantry
Cost - 5 IPCs
Move - 2
Attack - 1 (2 when combined with an artillery or tank unit)
Defense - 2
Special abilities:
Each mechanized infantry unit may pull an artillery unit up to 2 spaces during the combat movement phase, or non combat movement phase (both units must originate from the same territory).
Mechanized infantry may blitz when combined with a tank (both units must originate from the same territory), however, mechanized infantry may not pull artillery units when blitzing with a tank.
@Young:
For $5 they should be able to blitz
They can still blitz with a tank, they just can’t blitz with a tank if they’re towing a heavy artillery unit. Do you think they should blitz with artillery?
I was thinking the can blitz on their own without a tank. I don’t think you want them towing artillery in combat movement phase; just NCM or they will be too powerful and no one will ever build a tank again.
The Global 1939 rules have something like this. I forget the details right now but I recall it seems to work well.
@Imperious:
my MODIFICATION:
Mechanized Infantry
Cost - 5 IPCs
Move - 2
Attack - 1 (2 when combined with an artillery or tank unit)
Defense - 2Special abilities:
Each mechanized infantry unit may pull an artillery unit up to 2 spaces during the combat movement phase, or non combat movement phase (both units must originate from the same territory).
Mechanized infantry may blitz when combined with a tank (both units must originate from the same territory), however, mechanized infantry may not pull artillery units when blitzing with a tank.
First post revised…
@Young:
For $5 they should be able to blitz
They can still blitz with a tank, they just can’t blitz with a tank if they’re towing a heavy artillery unit. Do you think they should blitz with artillery?
I was thinking the can blitz on their own without a tank. I don’t think you want them towing artillery in combat movement phase; just NCM or they will be too powerful and no one will ever build a tank again.
The Global 1939 rules have something like this. I forget the details right now but I recall it seems to work well.
Baron says for 5 IPCs it’s not that powerful… 5 IPCs is a lot for a unit with 1 attack and 2 defense.
Hmm I suppose that’s true. $5 is a lot.
I like to call the German mechs “SS panzergrenadiers” to go with the “SS panzers”. Mobile units are SS.
This is sounding pretty good.
So the mech can tow an arty and move 2 it just can’t tow it into battle? Otherwise the mech can blitz on its own?
I agree with varaiance for 5 bucks it should be able to blitz.
We need a good unit at a cost of 5 ipcs to take the place of the Old Classic tank spot. There are many situations where it would be nice to have a unit with these mech abilities. I also think this unit would be fun to play in 1942.2 or even 1941 as well, if you wanted to port a unit from G40 into one of the smaller games. Seems like it would make for a slightly faster pace on the artillery push.
I also think it would be cooler if it blitzed at all times, as others suggest, unless its towing. “Blitz or Tow”, keeps the unit practical on attack, although the logistical movement advantage is better if you use them to tow artillery. Would give your unit some more flexibility on combat, and and non-combat positioning, but without being too overpowered. Artillery as a combat blitz unit just seems way too scary, but the tow or blitz would be a bit more manageable. Gives the Mech a stronger sense of purpose in the roster, for the increase in cost. I think I’d still buy them at 5
Would help both sides too. Japan mechs could drag their dudes through china, far east and india. Germany on the way to Russia. Italy as well. US and UK across North Africa.
Might benefit Germany a little bit more but Russia could respond to breakthroughs better. Especially from the east or the caucasus.
I’m really starting to like this. Really would change the logistics big time. I’m still testing some other things but this is next in line.
Good Action Guys!
We need a good unit at a cost of 5 ipcs to take the place of the Old Classic tank spot.
I know that this thread has been overlooked for a while but we have been playing with this house rule for a while in the Global 39 game. We have the cost of the mech inf at the regular 4ipc and the mech can blitz with the tanks while towing the artilery. It is a nice little force but it has not proven to be overwhelming. The attack values in Global 39 make tanks still the biggest bang for the buck but the added bumps in values make the combonation of inf+mech+art+tank quite a powerful little force. In the global 40 game, I still think that tanks will prove to be useful, especially in defense. I like the agility in movement that comes with having a mechanized attack force. To add to it, we have added transport trucks that carry one infintry and it too moves with the tanks and mech+art force. The tranport truck has no attack value but does have a defense of 1 (the driver would have a side arm atleast). This combo has added some “shock” value to the game but has not proven to be unbalanced or overwhelming (as I said before). Try it, you’ll likeit.
We have it house ruled that Mechanized Infantry cost 4, attack 1 (2 with artillery), defend 2 and move 2. Mechs can blitz by themselves, don’t have to pair with a tank.
However, this towing artillery idea sounds pretty cool. I don’t think they should be able to blitz while towing artillery. It seems like one or the other would be right. Either blitz OR tow artillery, not both. Then if you play with techs and you get the Improved Mechanized Infantry tech, you can say now they can tow artillery AND blitz at the same time.
By the way, this seems like the end of buying regular infantry except for strict defense.
We have it house ruled that Mechanized Infantry cost 4, attack 1 (2 with artillery), defend 2 and move 2. Mechs can blitz by themselves, don’t have to pair with a tank.
However, this towing artillery idea sounds pretty cool. I don’t think they should be able to blitz while towing artillery. It seems like one or the other would be right. Either blitz OR tow artillery, not both. Then if you play with techs and you get the Improved Mechanized Infantry tech, you can say now they can tow artillery AND blitz at the same time.By the way, this seems like the end of buying regular infantry except for strict defense.
I like it… Bliz or Tow, but not both.
@Young:
I like it… Bliz or Tow, but not both.
Yes, and it’s realistic for it to work that way. Towed artillery by its nature can either shoot or move but it can’t do both at the same time because the weapon needs to be in different configurations to carry out each purpose (as can be illustrated by comparing the two different versions of the A&A Japanese artillery piece). Even self-propelled artillery typically either moves or shoots but not both; the fundamental difference between SPA and towed artillery isn’t so much how they’re used, but rather has to do with the fact that SPA can move itself whereas towed artillery needs to be moved by a separate towing vehicle.
Nice post CWO Marc, Love the pic of the two artillery units.
The only worry I have with this house rule is that it’s gonna favor the Axis in many more ways than the Allies. I’m wondering if there is a way we can add something similar to a different unit that the Allies can use more than the Axis.
I think Allied TTs should be able to transport a Mech with an Armour.
Its Inf were all Mechanized by the time it got around to landing amphibiously anyway. Would help enormously in North Africa.
@wittmann:
I think Allied TTs should be able to transport a Mech with an Armour.
Its Inf� � were all Mechanized by the time it� � got around to landing amphibiously anyway. Would help enormously in North Africa.
I was thinking along those same lines…
When using transports, Mechanized infantry can be used like regular infantry.
Possible combinations for a fully loaded transport are as follows…
Infantry / Infantry
Infantry / Mech Infantry
Infantry / AA Artillery
Infantry / Artillery
Infantry / Tank
Mech Infantry / Mech Infantry
Mech Infantry / Infantry
Mech Infantry / AA Artillery
Mech Infantry / Artillery
Mech Infantry / Tank
What I like about this is, we are changing Mech Infantry units which will benefit the Axis as well as the Allies.
…Maybe Barron M can chime in to give us the stats, and wether or not Mech Infantry can stay at 4 IPCs with these new abilities.
@Young:
…Maybe Barron M can chime in to give us the stats, and wether or not Mech Infantry can stay at 4 IPCs with these new abilities.
The ability to move along an Artillery unit is what make your Mechanized Infantry so popular at 4 IPCs. (Your first issue.)
At 5 IPCs, it seems an interesting way to balance his offensive weakness by allowing 2 Mech infs on board a Transport.
Or a Mech Inf and an Artillery unit.
Or a Mech Inf and a Tank unit.
It is hard to find a way to make this comparative evaluation based on numbers.
Let’s just say, that it has no impact on the initial punch of an amphibious assault, except that it is slightly costlier:
1 Inf + 1 Art = A4 D4 M1 Cost 7
1 Inf+ 1 Tank = A4 D5 M1-2 Cost 9
1 MI + 1 Art = A4 D4 M2, no blitz, Cost 9
1 MI + 1 Tank = A4 D5 M2, blitz, Cost 11
I missed the +1A Tank pairing bonus:
1 MI + 1 Tank = A5 D5 M2, blitz, Cost 11
To get a comparison basis, here is my customized combat values for 5 IPCs Mechanized Artillery:
MECHANIZED INFANTRY A1-2 D2 M2 Cost 4,
Get +1 if paired 1:1 with Artillery or Mechanized Artillery or Heavy Artillery
Can Blitz when paired 1:1 with Tank(MECHANIZED ARTILLERY) (Self-Propelled Artillery / Assault Gun) A2-3 D2-3 M2 Cost 5 added for completeness
Gives +1A to 1 Infantry or 1 Mechanized Infantry when paired 1:1 with.
Tank Hunter as a Tank Support capacity: gets +1A/D when paired 1:1 with a Tank.
Both bonus can work at the same time.TANK A3-4 D3-4 M2 Cost 6
Can Blitz
Allow Mechanized Infantry or Mechanized Artillery to Blitz on 1 on 1 basis or a 1:1:1 basis.
_Gives +1A/D to Mechanized Artillery when paired 1:1 withMA+Tank: A6 D6 M2 Cost 11 IPCs.
MA+MA: A4 D4 M2 Cost 10 IPCs.
MI+MA: A4 D4 M2 Cost 9 IPCs.
As we can see: 1 MI + 1 Tank = A5 D5 M2, blitz, Cost 11
is 1 attack and 1 Defense point below my optimized MA+Tank.From a balance perspective, a A/D 3 should cost 5.5 IPCs to be in par to A/D 2 at 4.5 IPCs.
You need 11 units Att@2 to be a match to 9 units Def@3:
Overall %*: A. survives: 48.2% D. survives: 50% No one survives: 1.8%
http://calc.axisandallies.org/?mustland=0&abortratio=0&saveunits=0&strafeunits=0&aInf=&aArt=11&aArm=&aFig=&aBom=&aTra=&aSub=&aDes=&aCru=&aCar=&aBat=&adBat=&dInf=&dArt=&dArm=9&dFig=&dBom=&dTra=&dSub=&dDes=&dCru=&dCar=&dBat=&ddBat=&ool_att=Bat-Inf-Art-AArt-Arm-Sub-SSub-Des-Fig-JFig-Cru-Bom-HBom-Car-dBat-Tra&ool_def=Bat-Inf-Art-AArt-Arm-Bom-HBom-Sub-SSub-Des-Car-Cru-Fig-JFig-dBat-Tra&battle=Run&rounds=&reps=10000&luck=pure&ruleset=AA1942&territory=&round=1&pbem=This 1 MI + 1 Tank = on avg. A2.5 D2.5 Cost 5.5 IPCs.
The other 1 MI + 1 Art = A4 D4 M2, no blitz, Cost 9 worth on average:
A2 D2 Cost 4.5 IPCs. It is right on balance cost! The optimized choice.The MI + Tank is slightly weaker A-.5 D-.5 to the rightly balance combat value for the price.
Knowing that 1 Tank is .5 IPCs above his right price, I would add that MI+Tank Blitz is the only advantage over MI + towed Artillery mix.
The bonus on transport (can hold 1 MI+ 1 Tank) can be also a pretty good way to balance it up.
Especially to get a competitive situation against Axis._
