Anzac question!



  • Hey guys, can Anzac land, aircraft and troops r1, on java ? not at war with Japan, not that it thinks it matters!

    PPP


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 '13 Moderator

    Yes. Most Anzac players would do that as their first move.



  • ty wittman, are u 100% ? the guy im playing with wont accept it ;(



  • Wittman is right.

    Tell your friend that Java isn’t a neutral country. Not even a pro-x one.
    Technically, Java (and all other DEI islands) are allied from the start. The only reason why the allies need a land unit in it (during NCM because it is a friendly area), is for claiming its IPCs and being able to build facilities there.
    So in extremis, ANZAC can even land its FTR there without putting a land unit on it first.

    Be careful though;
    Java will fall (with or without the FTR still on it) and those FTR are never going to get back into Sydney, which becomes a juicy target for Japan…


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 '13 Official Q&A TripleA Moderator

    @PeterPaaPan:

    … the guy im playing with wont accept it ;(

    Maybe you can convince him just by showing him the rulebook.

    @Rulebook:

    ANZAC

    Political Situation: ANZAC begins the game at war with Germany and Italy, both of which are on the other side of world.
    ANZAC may declare war on Japan at the beginning of the Combat Move phase of any of its turns, resulting in a state of
    war between Japan and both ANZAC and the United Kingdom. When not yet at war with Japan, in addition to the normal
    restrictions (see “Powers Not at War with One Another,” page 15), ANZAC may not move units into or through China. It
    may, however, move units into Dutch territories as a noncombat movement at any time, as long as those territories have not
    been captured by an Axis power. It may actually take control of Dutch territories (gaining their IPC income) by moving land
    units into them.
    Additionally, ANZAC considers attacks against any Dutch territories to be acts of war against it directly.



  • @ItIsILeClerc:

    Wittman is right.

    Tell your friend that Java isn’t a neutral country. Not even a pro-x one.
    Technically, Java (and all other DEI islands) are allied from the start. The only reason why the allies need a land unit in it (during NCM because it is a friendly area), is for claiming its IPCs and being able to build facilities there.
    So in extremis, ANZAC can even land its FTR there without putting a land unit on it first.

    Be careful though;
    Java will fall (with or without the FTR still on it) and those FTR are never going to get back into Sydney, which becomes a juicy target for Japan…

    Careful, facilities means naval bases(NB’s) and air bases(AB’s), not Industrial Complexes. Your FTR’s(fighters) on Java, may or may not survive. Depends on what round it is and depends on what round Japan attacks. You may want to build an AB on W. Australia. From there, you can stage your fighters to India in one turn or Yunnan or back to W. Australia from India. A lot of players will use the Aussie FTR’s for extra defense in India, Yunnan, Moscow or the middle East. From W. Australia you can also reach a lot of other Seazones(SZ’s) w/your FTR’s. That’s good for killing Japan’s undefended transports and navy.

    As Panther pointed out in the rulebook, Anzac can absolutely land troops and aircraft on Java or any other Dutch territory starting Round 1. As mentioned in this thread, once an Allied player lands troops on a Dutch territory for the first time, while the territory is still Dutch, it becomes that country’s territory and that country gets the IPC’s for that territory. In this case Anzac. Sounds like this guy is being difficult. If he persists, you can point him to the many online games in the Boardgame section or League section of the Forum, where almost every Anzac player takes Java on Round 1. Pretty standard move for Anzac Turn 1.

    The TripleA engine(online app) has this functionality built into it, where the Allies, during non-combat, can land troops or aircraft on Java on Round 1, while Java is still Dutch. Again, if the Allies, land troops on Java while it’s Dutch, then that Allied country gets the IPC’s for Java and Java immediately becomes a territory for that Allied player.

    FYI, you can also land aircraft in French IndoChina(FIC) while it’s still French. If you have aircraft in India or other territories you might be able to catch the Japanese player sleeping and nail some of his navy that isn’t protected enough.

    I’ve attacked many Japanese navy units with Brit and/or Anzac aircraft and navy in SZ’s, where the Japanese player is unaware you can land in FIC.



  • I should clarify, facilities means AB’s, NB’s and IC’s normally. However, players can’t build new IC’s on islands in the Global 1940 game.



  • Love u guys! Ty very much! This forum is 2 great 😉

    PPP



  • But these sentences from the rules above confuses me!

    “It may, however, move units into Dutch territories as a noncombat movement at any time, as long as those territories have not been captured by an Axis power. It may actually take control of Dutch territories (gaining their IPC income) by moving land units into them.”

    The second sentence clearly says “land units”, how can i then lan a FTR in an empty Java the first round???


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 '13 Official Q&A TripleA Moderator

    @DiscoKnekt:

    But these sentences from the rules above confuses me!

    “It may, however, move units into Dutch territories as a noncombat movement at any time, as long as those territories have not been captured by an Axis power. It may actually take control of Dutch territories (gaining their IPC income) by moving land units into them.”

    The second sentence clearly says “land units”, how can i then lan a FTR in an empty Java the first round???

    “Units” in the first sentence refers to land and air units. When moving an ANZAC land unit in you take control over the territory. When landing a Fighter only, you can “park” it there but not take over control over the territory.



  • Thanks Panther, 100% clear now! 🙂


  • Official Q&A

    @Commando:

    As mentioned in this thread, once an Allied player lands troops on a Dutch territory for the first time, while the territory is still Dutch, it becomes that country’s territory and that country gets the IPC’s for that territory.

    This applies to UK and ANZAC only.  While other Allied powers at war may land on Dutch territories, they may not take control of them unless recapturing them from the Axis.


  • TripleA

    It is a good ANZAC move round 1. Do not do it and Japan steam rolls the Pacific, which it will do anyway, but you can stall him a bit.



  • @Krieghund:

    @Commando:

    As mentioned in this thread, once an Allied player lands troops on a Dutch territory for the first time, while the territory is still Dutch, it becomes that country’s territory and that country gets the IPC’s for that territory.

    This applies to UK and ANZAC only.  While other Allied powers at war may land on Dutch territories, they may not take control of them unless recapturing them from the Axis.

    Good catch Krieg.



  • just have a question that what is the ownership of java if US capture it from japan hand.?



  • @kku:

    just have a question that what is the ownership of java if US capture it from japan hand.?

    US would control it because they captured it from Japan.



  • Those DEI are considered Allied as the Dutch Royal Family was in exile in London when Germany occupied the Netherlands in 1940.

    That is why allied aligned nations can land on them with aircraft, as they are considered Allied friendly.  However, to access the resources they offer, you will need to land a ground unit on them.

    This is also why Japan taking control of them is considered an act of war by the Allies, which enables the US economy to go into full gear and UK / ANZAC to realize their NO bonuses while at war.

    Once ownership is taken, they act like any other territory on the map and play by the normal rules.

    They are just unique as the controlling government is in exile to start the game, so no one realizes their economic benefit until someone occupies the territory and puts the resources to work for their side.

    If you’re interested in why the DEI are so resource rich, think about this:  During WW2, the DEI were the third largest oil producer behind the US and USSR.  In the Pacific, controlling that oil was paramount to any naval warfare success.  Particularly as there was an oil embargo on Japan, these islands were a strategic necessity for Japan, which theoretically led to Pearl Harbor.


  • '14 Customizer

    Well said Spendo and thanks for the history on the DEI.


  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    Depending on J1 (and how many loaded carriers in Z36), it is usually a great move to move everything into Java with ANZ on round 1.  Besides many other reasons, this may be your best opportunity to get those fighters to India on turn 2, and from there they could go to Russia.  ANZ fighters are key to stifling the Italian can openers on Russia.


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    @Spendo02:

    Those DEI are considered Allied as the Dutch Royal Family was in exile in London when Germany occupied the Netherlands in 1940.

    Also, the Dutch actively partnered with the Americans, the British and the Australians in late 1941 and early 1942 to try to contain the Japanese advance in the region.  They formed a short-lived joint command structure, ABDACOM, and a Dutch naval officer, Admiral Doorman, was at one point in charge of the joint Allied naval forces in the area (which unfortunately suffered several naval defeats).  ABDACOM was ultimately dissolved, but it did provide some valuable early experience in the requirements of coalition warfare.

    Since there are a few Dutch roundels on the game map (in the DEI, plus one in South America), and in view of Holland’s contribution to the fighting in the DEI and surrounding seas in the early months of the war I think it would be fun (and historically appropriate) to have a couple of minor Dutch units in the DEI area at the start if the game.  Has anyone here experimented with any house rules along these lines?



  • Meaning something like a Dutch DD off each island until America enters the war?  Similar rules to that of the US Pre-war navy where you restrict them to their starting SZ?


  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    This G40 game is just begging for lots of house rules, I know that!  🙂


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    @Spendo02:

    Meaning something like a Dutch DD off each island until America enters the war?Â

    I haven’t really given it a lot of thought, but maybe someting even smaller-scale than this, since Holland’s forces in the DEI were pretty weak.  Let’s say just one Dutch destroyer for the whole DEI region, and one Dutch infantry unit on each of the three Dutch territories that have an IPC value – Java, Sumatra and Celebes.  None could be replaced when lost, so they’d have the same kind of status as China’s Flying Tiger unit.  The idea would be to give the Dutch a token combat-unit presence in the DEI without unbalancing the game, but I’m not sure if 1 destroyer and 3 infantry would be the right blend of units to achive this.


  • Customizer

    I agree with you CWO Marc. There should be a small Dutch presence on the DEI Islands. The way it is now, if Japan attacks early or for some reason India and ANZAC doesn’t take the Dutch islands, Japan can get those expensive islands with no fight. That isn’t right. Granted, the Japanese attacks were so sudden and quick that they overwhelmed what defense there was, but it was still a fight. So there should be something there for them to fight, even if it is a single Dutch infantry.
    As for the sea zones around them, I really don’t have a clue as to what would be proper.


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    @knp7765:

    I agree with you CWO Marc. There should be a small Dutch presence on the DEI Islands. The way it is now, if Japan attacks early or for some reason India and ANZAC doesn’t take the Dutch islands, Japan can get those expensive islands with no fight. That isn’t right. Granted, the Japanese attacks were so sudden and quick that they overwhelmed what defense there was, but it was still a fight. So there should be something there for them to fight, even if it is a single Dutch infantry. As for the sea zones around them, I really don’t have a clue as to what would be proper.

    From a quick check, it looks like Holland’s naval forces in the DEI area at the time of the Japanese invasion consisted primarily of the light cruisers De Ruyter, Java and Tromp and of the destroyers Van Ghent, Evertsen, Kortenaer, Piet Hein, Witte de With, Banckert, and Van Nes.  By March 1942, all but Tromp had been sunk in combat or scuttled after sustaining heavy damage.

    So on the naval side of the game, I’d say that Holland should indeed have some naval presence in the DEI area.  The minimum I’d give it would be one ship (either one cruiser or one destroyer), the maximum I’d give it would be three ships (one cruiser plus two destroyers), and my feeling is that the best combination would be the middle-ground option of two ships (one cruiser and one destroyer).  This would reflect the modest size of Holland’s WWII navy and the types of ships that the Dutch actually had on duty in the DEI in 1941 (notwithstanding Holland’s grandiose pre-war ambitions to build three battlecruisers for its DEI fleet).  A force of just one cruiser and one destroyer probably wouldn’t drastically unbalance the situation on the Pacific 1940 side of the game – but at the same time, as you noted, it would prevent Japan from simply walking unopposed into the IPC-wealthy DEI.  On land, the same approach could be used: a mimimum of one infantry unit and a maximum of three, with two being perhaps the optimal number.

    There could even be an elastic element to this house rule option.  The Allied player who is picked to control the token Dutch forces could be given some limited options for choosing a set-up at the start of the game.  For instance, there could be a prescribed minimum of one infantry unit, one cruiser and one destroyer, and the player could then choose to add either a) two more infantry; or b) two more destroyers; or c) one infantry and one destroyer, for a total of five units in each case.  If this is considered too powerful, the ceiling could be four units: one infantry, one cruiser and one destroyer, plus either one extra infantry or one extra destroyer depending on what the Dutch player would prefer to have.

    At the Dutch player’s discretion, the naval units could initially be placed (in any combination) in sea zones 41 and/or 42 and /or 44 (and perhaps even in SZ 45, though I don’t see much point in doing so).  The infantry could initially be placed (in any combination) on Sumatra and/or Java and/or Celebes (and perhaps even in Dutch New Guinea, though this too would be rather pointless).  The house rule could state that Dutch naval forces are prohibited from operating in sea zea zones other than 41, 42, 44 and 45 (similarly to the restrictions that China has on the territories it can enter).  China does get a limited entry dispensation with regard to Burma and Kwantung, so perhaps the Dutch player could get a limited dispensation to enter SZ 43 (since in real life part of the island of Borneo was Dutch).  The house rule could also state that Dutch infantry units must remain on the Dutch territories to which they were initially assigned, with perhaps their being allowed, at most, to travel by naval transport from one DEI territory to another.


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