• '19 '18

    Hello everybody and welcome to the Match Spotlight thread.

    Here I will write match reports from time to time and analyze the game. I will point out the general strategy from both sides as well as crucial points.
    I hope this will be entertaining as well as helpful. Especially beginners should profit, since they can see major strategic flaws and some fine tricks and moves that will help improve their game.

    Note: English is not my first language, so I start by apologizing for unclear sentences or any other grammar / spelling mistakes. Additionally I want to emphasize that this is by no means a strict regular thing you can expect like “every week” or something.

    If anyone wants to write reports too, I have no objections to you posting them here.

  • '19 '18

    Match Spotlight #1: ArtofWar1947 (Axis) vs Amon-Sul (Allies + 7) LL, G40 League

    Note that this is a Low Luck game, which is not my preference since it takes away one of the most important skills in this game: Being able to cope bad dice results. While it is possible to completely get diced in crucial 99% battles and thus losing despite playing perfectly, most of the time bad dice wont cost you the game immediately since your opponent should face the same issues if the game just goes on long enough.

    I write the report WHILE watching the game. So I don’t know what will happen next and any assumptions I make are just that - assumptions. Let’s see how good I can predict what will happen next.

    Placement

    Placement almost always goes at least partly into the Mediterranean area. And for a good reason: More often than not, the game is decided by holding Egypt or not. Additionally, the Axis have a hard time capturing Egypt, if they are failing to do so in the first 3-4 turns. And on top of that, this is one of the few regions, where immediate action is guaranteed in round 1, and 1-2 more units will really make a difference!

    Allies decide to place Inf+Art in Alexandria. Strong placement, since it kicks Italy almost completely out of North Africa. It kinda forces you to attack SZ97 though. Germany could abuse this knowledge to plan a sealion attempt.

    Germany 1

    Highly unsual purchase. 6 Art are strong for a Barbarossa campaign. However, I personally prefer at least leaving the Sealion option on the table. With this opening, you nearly guarantee capturing Moscow. However, it gives UK a lot of freedom, for example to purchase an Egypt factory right away.

    The combat is pretty standard. Only the Tac in North Italy is weird - probably a mistake by accident.

    UK scrambles from Scotland, which is a possible decision here. If Germany attacks 111 with the Battleship and this constellation of planes, it highly suggests he wants to retreat after one round, leaving behind a damaged British battleship without harbour and saving the own one. BUT the German purchase didn’t imply that option, so in the end, I personally would not have scrambled.
    In this case however, ArtOfWar didn’t retreat and the Allies had a little bad luck, killing only one tac and the sub.

    Nothing special otherwise.

    Russia 1

    Very risky purchase! 3 Inf+7 Art instead of the usual 7Inf+3Art or 11Inf+1Art. Germany showed a clear will to play Barbarossa and thus Russia should normally play as defensive as possible.
    Additionally Russia moved all fast units to China! Amon-Sul is basically begging for Moscow to be captured, if he really goes through with it.
    Russia should have also moved the Cruiser in the Baltic Sea to prevent a landing in Novgorod.

    Japan 1

    Starting with Factory + 2 Transports is the normal way. You can also start with 3 transports. Both have advantages and disadvantages. I don’t like ArtOfWar leaving the majority of the fleet in SZ6. If you place them at Carolines or similar, you are at least threatening to move in on Anzac or even Hawaii in J2. You are also basically giving away the information, that you intend to do a J3. This gives India sooo much freedom. Big mistake here already!
    And also: Factory in Korea? WTF? Why?

    USA 1

    Splitting the purchase nearly half-half in both oceans is not what I really like, but okay. You can do that. As long as you make sure to always put more into Pacific than into Atlantic in USA1, you’re fine.
    Moving the sub+Destroyer from Philippines to India is something new to me. Normally they go to Canberra to unite with the rest of the fleet faster. But since Japan’s fleet was mostly in Japan, this was okay.

    China 1

    Attacking Yunnan with only 4 Inf +1 Fighter would be crazy with regular dice! This first recapture of Yunnan is very important for China and must not fail. But this is LL.
    I really don’t recommend stacking Szechwan, unless Russia will reinforce it too (which leaves Russia in a bad state however). Japan can attack Szechwan with the planes for an average of -10 TUV, which is TOTALLY worth it!!! And Japan could have had even more planes in Kwangsi (but they are on the carriers in SZ6…, totally useless there). But it seems Amon-Sul plans on supporting China with Russia.

    UK 1

    I would have decided to use the London destroyer and one Fighter to kill the German Battleship. That’s a +12 given there! Plus, you keep one fighter in London (after losing the Scottish Fighter already!) against a possible Sealion. You could move the Mech to Suriname for Brazil in UK2.

    Since Amon-Sul wiped out the Italian Navy AND Tobruk, he does not need early reinforcements in Africa. Thus, placing all in London is wise. Especially after sending off every single fighter.
    For the record: Not scrambling was the right decision as well from ArtOfWar. The additional German plane there has just the task of forcing the UK to send fighters from London to the attack.

    Ita 1

    I don’t like the Malta attack. After losing the Navy, Italy really needs the small airforce. Additionally, you give up the last transport without even getting Gibraltar or something similar important.

    French 1

    Leaving the German Battleship for the sole French fighter is a risky move. You only have 60% chance of killing the Battleship and you lose the last fighter defending London in 80% of the time.

    Germany 2

    Nothing very special here. I would have bought fast units (mech+tanks) instead of slow ones. Since the German “fleet” is pretty much non-existent, Germany is relying on conquering Moscow as fast as possible, before USA knocks on Europe’s door.
    Adding 3 transports is especially weird. On the one hand, UK has no planes anymore (another reason not to throw them all away!), on the other hand attempting a sealion via Scotland is doomed after that first round purchase of Germany and UK. Especially since Russia bought so many Art and sent away mech+tanks to China, Barbarossa would be the better solution here.

    Russia 2

    Even after the 3 transports from Germany, buying 7 art AGAIN is highly risky! Especially since Russia now has 33 Inf and 17 Art, which is not really a good proportion.
    Also: Why do you leave so much at Novgorod? This place is usually undefendable and you can’t reach anything from there!

    Japan 2

    ArtOfWar really needs to improve his Japan play. Another 3 transports? Isn’t that a little over the top?
    Moving one transport to SZ 19? It can’t reach anything from there besides Philippines (already covered by 3 (!) transports from Japan).
    Moving the Infantry out of Siam? These have direct connection to Shan State! They are very valuable in every Shan State attack.
    The Fleet is still sitting totally idle in SZ6, doing NOTHING.
    Buying NO fleet at all? Not wise, my friend.
    And most of all: Why so many ground units in the North? Even your 4 transports can’t carry 11 units from Korea/Japan. AND 6 more in Manchuria!

    USA 2

    More Planes even though you already don’t have enough carriers to carry your existing ones? It looks like Amon-Sul is planning to attack SZ6. Which is a bad idea, since a good Japan player would just move the fleet to Philip or similar. With only 2 transports you can’t hope to capture Korea or Japan either (and Japan can still transport most of the units from there, since he has so freakishly many). Thus, the harbour in Midway is basically wasted as well. Now the US fleet is miles away from the money islands in the south, which is always dangerous, since Japan will very likely attack them next round.
    The US fleet could have been in Canberra now, threatening every major island and Malaya at once.

    UK 2

    See, this happens when Japan leaves too much freedom to India. A horror scenario. The Allies are stacking Yunnan with a bazillion units. Making a J2 DOW or at least placing the fleet+transports at Malaya would threaten India much more. I can’t see how Japan will recover from these 2 bad rounds already. It is doomed already, this early in the game!
    In Europe however, UK2 makes a big flaw. The German purchase of transports threatens a Scotland-sealion. And since there are zero fighters in London, placing 24 IPC in Africa is very risky. Especially since those 3 mech in South Africa are not needed at all (I mean look at poor Italy).

    Germany 3

    The only logical thing here after that poor UK purchase. A strong strategic bombing, followed by another transport purchase and the afforementioned Scotland landing. Suddenly buying slow instead of fast units in Germany 2 turn out to have been a good decision. Make no mistake though, against another UK2 purchase, this would not have been possible.
    And by the way: Convoying London when you plan to take it is kinda counter-productive.

    Russia 3

    Oh my. Again, a poor decision (buying so many art) turns out to be a good one because the opponent didn’t capitalize on that mistake. Having so much offense power may be very helpful now that Germany sent a big part of the army to the Sealion operation.
    However, if Russia would have moved the Novgorod units last round to Belarus, he could have stacked in Eastern Poland. How much better would that be!!! I can’t empasize this enough: If the Axis are attempting Sealion, Russia needs to sit for as long as possible in Eastern Poland, to threaten 3 Axis territories at once, making millions of cash! ATTACKING Eastern Poland, however, will prove to be difficult since Italy will be defending as well and Germany will be able to land planes there.
    And also: More Artillery? You do realize, you WILL need Infantry? I would have suggested to buy 6 inf, 2 tanks, 1 fighter at this point. You will need planes!

    Japan 3

    Ok, Japan was doomed already. But this is the third consecutive horrible round.
    Still no factory in Kwangtung or Harbour in Hainan. MORE ground units in Korea? And worst of all: You don’t take Philippines? Or French Indochina? (Well ok, in this case you would just lose it and give India 2 more IPC. So that may even be a good decision)
    You STILL leave your fleet in SZ6, despite NOT declaring war on USA?

    I won’t write anything anymore to Pacific. Since from this point on, the Allies can’t possibly ruin it here, whatever they do.

    UK 3

    Attack on Scotland? Losing 5 Inf to kill 5 Inf is a bad trade…
    Attack on Sudan? The Italian troops there were no danger at all. You are more likely to lose TUV there. And even if you win that battle, you just give 1 IPC to Germany for free.

    Italy 3

    ArtOfWar makes the biggest European mistake so far in this game. After Russia failed to get his troops in position to stack Eastern Poland, he now fails to stack it himself. Italy could have easily attacked it. Germany will then send everything else there too (except for 3 Inf defending Poland). Russia can’t push you out, you save all 3 German territories. Without Italy, Germany might have problems defending Eastern Poland alone. You would also be one step closer to Ukraine and West Ukraine.

    Germany 4

    Why on earth did you not send one of the subs to 125?
    But, nice job on the purchase. ArtOfWar bought just right enough to deny Eastern Poland stacking from Russia.

    Russia 4

    You are already suffering from not having enough Infantry to stack Eastern Poland or a fighter from Moscow that could defend it immediately and yet you still buy no Infantry. I am at a loss, Amon-Sul, for so much ignorance to Infantry!

    USA 4

    Your planes are sitting idly in Western United States for the second round in a row now and you still didn’t move them to Hawaii? As I said earlier - you don’t have enough carriers!
    And why do you buy 3 transports, if you do not have enough troops for them? That’s a waste. You could have at least replaced it with a sub that would have been in action one round earlier.

    Ita 4

    Finally! Eastern Poland! Hurray!

    Axis 5

    Now we begin to see a major strategic flaw in Europe. If you want Sealion, you have to either

    a) Hold Gibraltar
    b) Be able to Recapture Gibraltar
    b) Give up Gibraltar but don’t invest into the Mediterranean

    Since ArtOfWar did none of these he will now have the problem of defending two fleets against one. He needs to reinforce both his fleets if he does not want to lose them, while USA will only reinforce one. Or the axis could decide to just give up one or both of the fleets in which case - lots of wasted IPC.

    Allies 5

    5 Strategic Bombers for Pacific? First of all, China+Anzac+India can take on Japan by themselves at this point. And you don’t need more offense power, your fleet needs more defense power! Carriers!!! Also your pacific fleet is positioned soooo poorly. You are basically threatening NOTHING from Midway. And poor Anzac can’t buy ships now, because there is no protecting fleet in Canberra.
    Factory in Brazil? 12 more IPC completey wasted. This factory has no purpose at all.

    Amon-Sul should definitely have used the Russian cruiser to block a Novgorod landing! And additionally, he threw away 3 inf, 3 mech and 3 tanks there for no apparent reason.

    Axis 6

    Factory in Greece? I have no idea what that is for.
    It’s also always more efficient NOT to defend London with ground units. Because USA is threatening The Med, Normandy, Norway, Denmark, Western Germany AND London from Gibraltar, you might end up having fortified London only to lose Paris, Western Germany or Norway.
    Instead, maintain a fleet+airforce, that could kill the US navy. This way you have multiple benefits:

    a) USA has to constantly reinforce the navy and thus is not buying transports.
    b) USA can’t go into the Med to help Egypt or land in Greece / Italy, because you would cut them out off reinforcements by landing in Gibraltar
    c) Always buy a stack of ground units in Western Germany. This way USA can’t liberate London, because Germany would just recapture it and gain the bonus IPC. You can move these ground units every round to Russia, if USA didn’t land in London. That way you don’t waste ressources at all! This works for “protecting” Paris as well.

    Half-time!

    I will make some conclusions now.

    Pacific:

    As I said, Japan played very, very poorly in the first 3 rounds. Amon-Sul made big positioning mistakes as well with his fleet, but they are not as essential for the Allies. As soon as China+Anzac+India make more IPC as Japan after Round 4, it’s over!

    Europe:

    Both players made big mistakes here.
    The Allies first played very risky with Russia. Luckily for them, Germany didn’t exploit that fact. But then they ended up with no fighters in London and somehow fell for a Sealion, despite 4 transports being a huge warning signal. Since Russia made poor positioning decisions, he was not only able to use the sealion for Russias benefit (Russia could have easily gone up to 50-60 IPC). Amon-Sul also thew away many units unnecessarily (like in Novgorod).

    ArtOfWar on the other hand couldn’t decide for one proper strategy. He started with Barbarossa in G1 only to then switch to a Scotland-Sealion (That would not have worked with another UK2). But that sealion wasn’t backed up by
    a) a strong Axis fleet to defend Gibraltar or
    b) a strong Axis stacking in Eastern Poland earlier

    Now he ended up with a weak Russia project AND the necessity to defend London, France, Rome and Western Germany all at once with ground units.

    From this point on, the Allies can’t really lose the game anymore. Let’s have a look at the rest of the rounds

    Allies 8

    What the hell were you thinking, Amon-Sul, when you moved to 109? Especially since this is Low Luck!!! You lost 100 TUV there and another 25 in Eire. Wow

    And by the way, that’s the reason why you don’t spam Strategic bombers. Imagine instead of 9 Strats you would have had 3 full carriers with fighters! Your situation would have been so much better!

    At least Russia is doing just fine

    Axis 11

    What. The. Freaking. Fuck? You moved your entire Med Navy into SZ95? For no reason at all! Only to be slaughtered!

    Well there’s nothing much left to say. Everything was basically clear after Round 6. Germany didn’t have enough power to overcome Russia AND defend against USA. ArtOfWar could have been able to exploit the US blunder at Eire, if Japan would not have been in a horrible state from Round 1 on. That suicide in SZ95 just ended every speculation in Europe as well.

    GG, I hope you had fun reading. Please bash me now with harsh comments.

  • '19 '18

    Sorry, should have added the link to the specific game: http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=32880


  • Bump

    Nice idea MrRoboto!  This is very interesting to read.  8-)

  • '17 '16 '15 '14 '12

    MrRoboto, I appreciate the work you put into doing this.  It is an interesting thing to read and its educational, but I think it would be a good idea if you or anyone else is going to continue doing these, that you make sure both players want you to do it.  I myself would not want all my many mistakes put under the spotlight.  There is a fine line beyond constructive criticism and outright bullying the weaker players.

  • '19 '18

    That is a fair point and I have not thought about that. Thanks for that input.

    While the games we play are indeed public you are right -> it’s still different if someone specifically points out mistakes.

    I will ask for permission in the future.


  • I forgot to repeat that point that I have made before, when suggesting that someone commentate on games now -

    Yes, I think no commentary should occur until you have the consent of both players, and even after that, if they see the commentary and wish it wasn’t there, they need to communicate that to you and you will respond accordingly, I trust.

    Good point, variance


  • Wow, that’s awfully negative, Roboto

    I guess what I had in mind was more general, high level reporting of facts with a little subjective content, not a full-blown critical review of 2 players who are weaker than yourself….  But maybe this can evolve into a good thing too, and if you have player consent, then whatever should be fine.

    But I’m not sure you will be appreciated by many if you’re just comparing play to what you would do, and criticizing when it’s not the same as you would do…

    I frequently send USA sub and destroyer to the south and west from the Phillipines on USA1.  An extra destroyer blocker for India, and the sub can harass/distract in the future.  Attacking Malta is not necessarily a bad idea either, because it can be a stronghold with that extra inf/AA for UK planes, and of course it disrupts the UK NO and Med islands can be hard to take back.  It’s also a good territory for Italy to be able to control to land aircraft.
    Just 2 examples of why I’m not sure it’s a good idea to criticize/question every detail of another player’s play.  They have ideas of what they’re trying to do.

    I mean all this in a positive and constructive manner…  Just my thoughts after skimming your first report.
    I asked a moderator to sticky the thread.  He hasn’t been online for a month, though.

  • '17 '16 '15 '14 '12

    On the other hand, sometimes us weak players might like the commentary even if it is harsh.  I know I must make the same mistakes over and over.  :-)

  • '19 '18

    You are totally right. After rereading it, I have to admit it came off way harsher than I would have liked it to be. While writing the post, I somehow got drawn in more and more. So if I got too negative I want to apologize to both players.

    The critic I wrote is by no means “set in stone”, it’s just my personal opinion. After all, this is no official match report made by a commentator. If you read a movie or album review, this review is obviously very biased as well and we all know there are reviews ranging from 1/10 to 9/10 for the exact same project.
    And I would enjoy it very much, if discussion erupts about some of my assessments. Like if you make good points about thing that I did criticize, I might be persuaded and thus learn as well. I know very well, that I’m not a top notch player. There are at least a dozen people here playing way better than me, if not more. So a discussion will benefit everyone.

    On a side note, I planned to make a review about one of the Tier 1 playoff games (which means two of the best players available right now) as well as one of my own losses. In the first instance, it should be very helpful to see some nice longterm plans, even if I might not even detect them. And in the second case, well - of course I can see my own mistakes very clearly so I’m even more able to point out every single mistake I made.

    What I want to say is - I don’t want to be personally offensive to people. It’s just who I am - I usually don’t sugarcoat failures. Not others, but not mine either. I, personally, appreciate a negative critic way more, because I don’t learn anything from people who tell me I was doing fine.

    That being said, I will definitely try to be more positive and less offensive.

  • '20 '18 '17 '15

    i think the only games a person should analyze should be their own.  I mean, if you’re going to do this, why not make it one of your own games so that you know what you were thinking rather than try and second-guess someone else’s strategy?  Not every strategy is apparent from a few rounds of play.  Also, someone might not want their strategies revealed, giving a future opponent an advantage.  yes, they are public, but they aren’t on open display, either.

    Also, i second that you should get permission to critique the games from those who played them.  I mean, being critical of someone else’s mistakes is just mean.  Even if it is “just your opinion”, it doesn’t give you the right to insult someone else’s game play.  It comes across as you just talking @#&* and claiming to be a better player.  There is no single path to vicotry in this game, and just because you would not have moved the same doesn’t make that move wrong.

    If you want to do something like this, then it may be best to ask someone you are about to play.  Find someone willing, then have both sides write these analysis AS YOU PLAY.  You don’t have to post right away, but at least it will be easier for someone to note what they were thinking.  I mean, some of my games have lasted past 20 rounds.  Asking me what I was originally thinking on Round 4 is long gone.


  • I pretty much agree with Whack, and just want to say that what I had in mind was more of an objective news reporter standpoint, calling attention perhaps to compelling or interesting games, or just an interesting strat being tried (like Japan is going for Australia first or something)

    I’m not trying to say I think you should do exactly what I had in mind, but I just agree with Whack that criticism should really only be used with player’s permission - and many player’s would probably welcome that.

    It will also make everyone more comfortable if they know that permission has been asked for and granted each time, even though they don’t see it (I mean, if they know that’s how it’s working behind the scenes)

  • '21 '20 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13

    Mr. Roboto,
    You got my permission for the criticism. :-)

  • '20 '18 '17 '15

    Or perhaps there’s a way to further illustrate why you disagree with something.  Show the priorities of what you’re thinking.  If I go here, then I can do THIS on the following round, because X,Y,Z are more important to me at this point in the game.  But if you weren’t a part of that game, and someone is using a strategy different from what you’d do, it will just boil down to agree to disagree, while you call all of their moves “mistakes”.  For that reason, i really think any analysis should be from someone that actually played, and not a 3rd party.

    If someone is going for a longview, economic victory, rather than a smash-and-grab take Russia in 6 turns, attacking malta is a very viable option.  Bonus denial is huge if the game lasts for 20 rounds, leading to lamentations like: “If only I had had that extra 5 ics every turn for the last 19 Rounds!”

    And one last point, i think very few tactical choices are complete “mistakes”; they are simply using different logic and tactics than you, reaching towards a strategy you can’t see.  Mistakes would be things like leaving a capital undefended for the 1-2 US takes Denmark UK takes Berlin type.  Until you know what someone’s overall strategy is, what you think of as a mistake in an early round could all be a setup for a Round 5 attack on territory X.


  • It is good thing this started.

    I think U do not have to do such a detailed review. It takes too much time.

    Not too short either.

    As for criticism I do not have anything against it, I would just separate it from the game review as a separate thing, in the end of the whole story. More or less U did it.

  • '15 '14

    Much is said, I might want to give my 2 cents.
    First of call a big praise to Mr Roboto, finally someone invests some effort to keep strategy discussions alive. great job!!! :-) :-) :-)

    I do not want to focus on the way criticism is transported but about the format of the analysis.

    the point is: I think on One might imo save time and effort by waiving a turn by turn by country analysis of every move. The reason is that without studying the game file many of the comments can not be brought into context unless opening the game file and then the information is present anyway and does not need to get summarized.

    So what would I have in mind? Could it save the reviewer some time and effort if he/she would describe the general game setup in the beginning in a meta story and from there only mention turns where the reviewer thinks he wants to comment on.

    Just some examples:

    The game characteristics are that Germany went for a Cairo first approach after taking SF G1 while Japan decided to DOW3 and kept pressure on China. Russia built an early bomber and kept an offensive 1/3 Inf, 1/3 Mech 1/3 art approach for a couple of rounds. US played a KJF approach in the first 4 rounds while the Chinese were wiped out in Sze by an airstrike in J2. UK played a standard 97 attack and focused on the middle east and the SA IC in the early rounds.

    OR

    Germany played super hard G1 ground only purchase DOW Barbarossa sending Air to France and attacked only sz111 around UK accompanied by a J1 DOW by Japan. Russia turtled and US played a balanced approach. Things became messy in the Pacific while the Germans were steaming to Moscow, however UK/US started early to harass in the West.

    OR

    This is a sea lion game. After a fleet build 110/111 G1 with good dice for the Germans, UK decided to build fleet and almost no ground in UK. Germans took UK G3 with 6 tanks remaining. Japan did DOW3 and invaded Amur J1 pushing the Russians back therefore giving up any threat on India in the early game.
    US went hard to keep the threat to reclaim UK

    The advantage could be that this is written withing minutes and it still gives the reader what kind of game this is. Assuming one day many of such reports exist one would have the chance to pick a certain game such as DOW1 Barbarossa or J1 DOW or sea lion or “standard” Barbarossa.

    From here it could be an advantage to not have the need to comment on every single turn but to either:

    • Comment meta strategy such as “given the strong China the Allies did a great job in turn 2 by buying fast units with UK Pac which later would act as tanks combined with Chinese can openers” OR "in turn 7 the US switched theaters entirely and moved the entire Pacific fleet to the Atlantic

    • Make comments when you think they are necessary:
      UK3: I think UK Pac should have bought
      US4: I think the blocker in sz25 was an unnecessary as the Japanese couldn’t have afforded to attack the Hawaii seazone anyway as they would be annihilated in a counter attack
      Ru5: You retreated from Bryansk although the Germans would have had only 40% to attack
      Or any kind of comment you made in any of the turns

    I just learned from other strategy game communities I was in that many ideas died in case they were linked to a lot of afford and that any kind of strategy discussions or analysis lasted the longer the less effort was necessary to do them.

    Maybe this could give some input to not only create a great format but to reduce the burden to do such analysis:)

    Last point: In case the analysis is done for games that ended already I think attaching the final game file in the OP is best.
    Cheers,
    Tobias

  • '15 '14

    “linked to a lot of afford and that a”

    “effort” obv:)


  • Please include a link to the game or at least the 5 digit ID # when you do reports in the future, thanks!


  • Put in sticky request to Guerilla Guy, but he has not been online since Jan. 5.  Surely he won’t be gone much longer?

  • '19 '18

    The link to the game is in my third post in this thread - I’ve merely forgotten to add it

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