Simon, Marc, Krieghund Thank you for input and clarification. This will avoid any confusion or debate later.
Sean…
Mongolia and Neutrals - rules summarized here
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Oh my goodness Black Elk spoke eloquently for me and I love it on the rare occasion that someone does that
What was wrong with the +12 to Moscow or Tokyo when the other one breaks it?!
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Hmm, wasn’t it 12 IPC’s that could be spent on troops in Siberia (for Russia)? Or am I misremembering?
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Hmm, wasn’t it 12 IPC’s that could be spent on troops in Siberia (for Russia)? Or am I misremembering?
First Edition of G40, yes, not the Second Edition.
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If the rules were that simple, this thread probably wouldn’t need to exist.
:-DBut the Dutch rules create a kind of separate class of “Allies” with a different treatment for taking possession of Dutch territory and landing aircraft there, which are unique to UK/Anzac.
The Mongolia rules create a third class of neutral, which behaves differently than true Neutrals or Pro-side neutrals, which is why they have to be treated as a separate “nation” in tripleA. And these cover Korea as well, which isn’t a territory bordering Mongolia itself.
My point is just that the gameplay benefits/excitement introduced by having such territory and nation specific rules is rather insignificant, when compared to the confusion and need for clarification and examples that seems to attend to them.
But yeah, I was being intentionally flippant for emphasis.
;)I just think you could probably have achieved similar ends, with rules that were more universal and less nuanced.
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- You CAN’T fly over neutrals
Interestingly, during Operation Torch, planes from the UK flew over Spain on their way to Algeria.
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Well I’d complain about those too, if the “special case” rules didn’t go back to Classic, and if I thought anyone would pay attention to my views.
:-DThe two canals that limit naval movement in A&A, could have both been handled the same way, (control of a single territory) with the canal feature clearly denoted graphically on the gamemap so you know which territory is relevant. In other words, movement through the Suez Canal could have just been through Egypt instead of between Egypt and Jordan, so it worked exactly like Panama does, which would have been simpler. ;)
Straits are straightforward enough, the key difference between those types of rules and the ones I was grumbling about, is that they are the same for all player nations. The way they work doesn’t change from nation to nation, or as a result of the political situation. They are universal.
The Dutch rules are bizarre. If the rules for French territory worked the same way (after the fall of Paris) at least it would be consistent. Wouldn’t the same “special relationship” to the British/Anzac hold as much for free French territory as it does for the Dutch? But the UK cant take control of such spaces until they are first occupied by Axis. This puts limitations on air base and naval base locations, that might otherwise provide some gameplay interest.
And anyway, why make it UK/Anzac exclusive? It’s as if the American-British-Dutch-Australian Command never even existed heheh! I mean who hasn’t heard of ABDA Com? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-British-Dutch-Australian_Command
Salt in the wounds, as always.
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Haha, in real life, after mainland France fell, the colonies would become pro-Axis neutrals that were never activated.
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The Dutch rules are bizarre. If the rules for French territory worked the same way (after the fall of Paris) at least it would be consistent. Wouldn’t the same “special relationship” to the British/Anzac hold as much for free French territory as it does for the Dutch? But the UK cant take control of such spaces until they are first occupied by Axis. This puts limitations on air base and naval base locations, that might otherwise provide some gameplay interest.
The OOB rules don’t actually replicate the historical Vichy/Free French situation; they treat France as though it had continued to fight alongside the British as a government-in-exile after the loss of its homeland territory – so there are actually no Free French territories on the map. But your point is a good one because, under the OOB non-historical rules, France and the Netherlands are both governments-in-exile who own foreign colonial territories, and who are thus technically on an equal footing.
The real explanation for the difference in treatment between the DEI and the French colonial empire is probably therefore due to two things. First: France is a player power in the game, whereas Holland is not. The French player would be understandably torqued off if the rules allowed other Allied players to simply walk into his territories and take them over, but in Holland’s case no player-power feelings need to be considered. Second: the DEI situation is in essence a special variation of the game’s “pro-Allied neutral” mechanism, hidden from view by the fact that the DEI territories have a Dutch roundel rather than diagonal shading bars. And that mechanism is probably there because the DEI played such a crucial role in the outbreak of the war in the Pacific in the first place. You’ll note that no such special rules apply to Suriname, Holland’s colony in South America, because Suriname – unlike the DEI – had no significant role in WWII.
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Wait, but the British Empire troops can take control of Suriname, right?
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Yes, Calvin
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Yes, Calvin
Perhaps I’m interpreting this incorrectly, but the rules say:
“These two powers [meaning the United Kingdom and ANZAC] have an arrangement with the Dutch government in exile (Holland having been captured by Germany) and have taken guardianship of the Dutch territories in the Pacific. As a result, they are free to move units into these territories as a noncombat movement at any time, as long as they have not yet been captured by Japan. They may actually take control of them (gaining their IPC income) by moving land units into them. Additionally, the United Kingdom and ANZAC consider attacks against any Dutch territories to be acts of war against them directly. Once a Dutch territory has been captured by Japan, however, it may be captured and controlled by any power.”
Because these rules are specifically referring to “the Dutch territories in the Pacific”, I’m assuming that the part which says that the UK and ANZAC “are free to move units into these territories” only applies to the DEI. Suriname is in South America, on the continent’s Atlantic side, not its Pacific side, so it’s not a “Dutch territory in the Pacific.” The later part which refers to “attacks against any Dutch territories” certainly seems broad enough in scope to cover Suriname, but it concerns what the UK and ANZAC consider to be an act of war, not what territories they can occupy by special arrangement with the Dutch government.
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It’s written like that because it’s written in the Pacific rulebook only
Which brings up another gripe. There should be a complete rulebook that is designed for the global game. This hodgepodge of putting 2 different games together… -
It’s written like that because it’s written in the Pacific rulebook only
Nope, it means what it says - Pacific only.
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Well, I guess TripleA is wrong then…not that it matters much.
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thanks this was helpful
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Thank you for the feedback
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Refresh my memory on neutrals…
say an ally attacks a neutral, but not myself. does it then mean my whole alliance is at war with all neutrals or just that player who attacked the neutral?
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Yeah, it doesn’t matter that it’s an ally -
If your ally attacks a strict neutral, all other strict neutrals go pro-the other side -
Question: Can an ANZAC FTR land in Dutch New Guinea even though it has yet to be taken by an Allied force? i.e. Still Orange in colour
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Yes
They’re friendly allied territories when Dutch controlled - they’re not like neutrals or anything
Think of them as French territories - the difference being that France has a capital that could be liberated, and the other difference being the “special relationship” ability of UK/ANZ ground units to claim them in non-combatPlease see also the 2nd post of this thread, reply #1
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