• Sponsor

    @knp7765:

    We have it house ruled that Mechanized Infantry cost 4, attack 1 (2 with artillery), defend 2 and move 2. Mechs can blitz by themselves, don’t have to pair with a tank.
    However, this towing artillery idea sounds pretty cool. I don’t think they should be able to blitz while towing artillery. It seems like one or the other would be right. Either blitz OR tow artillery, not both. Then if you play with techs and you get the Improved Mechanized Infantry tech, you can say now they can tow artillery AND blitz at the same time.

    By the way, this seems like the end of buying regular infantry except for strict defense.

    I like it… Bliz or Tow, but not both.


  • @Young:

    I like it… Bliz or Tow, but not both.

    Yes, and it’s realistic for it to work that way.  Towed artillery by its nature can either shoot or move but it can’t do both at the same time because the weapon needs to be in different configurations to carry out each purpose (as can be illustrated by comparing the two different versions of the A&A Japanese artillery piece).  Even self-propelled artillery typically either moves or shoots but not both; the fundamental difference between SPA and towed artillery isn’t so much how they’re used, but rather has to do with the fact that SPA can move itself whereas towed artillery needs to be moved by a separate towing vehicle.

    Japanese Artillery.jpg

  • Sponsor

    Nice post CWO Marc, Love the pic of the two artillery units.

    The only worry I have with this house rule is that it’s gonna favor the Axis in many more ways than the Allies. I’m wondering if there is a way we can add something similar to a different unit that the Allies can use more than the Axis.


  • I think Allied TTs should be able to transport a Mech with an Armour.
    Its Inf  were all Mechanized by the time it  got around to landing amphibiously anyway. Would help enormously in North Africa.

  • Sponsor

    @wittmann:

    I think Allied TTs should be able to transport a Mech with an Armour.
    Its Inf� � were all Mechanized by the time it� � got around to landing amphibiously anyway. Would help enormously in North Africa.

    I was thinking along those same lines…

    When using transports, Mechanized infantry can be used like regular infantry.

    Possible combinations for a fully loaded transport are as follows…

    Infantry / Infantry
    Infantry / Mech Infantry
    Infantry / AA Artillery
    Infantry / Artillery
    Infantry / Tank

    Mech Infantry / Mech Infantry
    Mech Infantry / Infantry
    Mech Infantry / AA Artillery
    Mech Infantry / Artillery
    Mech Infantry / Tank

    What I like about this is, we are changing Mech Infantry units which will benefit the Axis as well as the Allies.

  • Sponsor

    …Maybe Barron M can chime in to give us the stats, and wether or not Mech Infantry can stay at 4 IPCs with these new abilities.

  • '17 '16

    @Young:

    …Maybe Barron M can chime in to give us the stats, and wether or not Mech Infantry can stay at 4 IPCs with these new abilities.

    The ability to move along an Artillery unit is what make your Mechanized Infantry so popular at 4 IPCs. (Your first issue.)

    At 5 IPCs, it seems an interesting way to balance his offensive weakness by allowing 2 Mech infs on board a Transport.
    Or a Mech Inf and an Artillery unit.
    Or a Mech Inf and a Tank unit.

    It is hard to find a way to make this comparative evaluation based on numbers.
    Let’s just say, that it has no impact on the initial punch of an amphibious assault, except that it is slightly costlier:
    1 Inf + 1 Art = A4 D4 M1 Cost 7
    1 Inf+ 1 Tank = A4 D5 M1-2 Cost 9

    1 MI + 1 Art = A4 D4 M2, no blitz, Cost 9
    1 MI + 1 Tank = A4 D5 M2, blitz, Cost 11

    I missed the +1A Tank pairing bonus:
    1 MI + 1 Tank = A5 D5 M2, blitz, Cost 11


    To get a comparison basis, here is my customized combat values for 5 IPCs Mechanized Artillery:

    MECHANIZED INFANTRY A1-2 D2 M2 Cost 4,
    Get +1 if paired 1:1 with Artillery or Mechanized Artillery or Heavy Artillery
    Can Blitz when paired 1:1 with Tank

    (MECHANIZED ARTILLERY) (Self-Propelled Artillery / Assault Gun) A2-3 D2-3 M2 Cost 5 added for completeness
    Gives +1A to 1 Infantry or 1 Mechanized Infantry when paired 1:1 with.
    Tank Hunter as a Tank Support capacity: gets +1A/D when paired 1:1 with a Tank.
    Both bonus can work at the same time.

    TANK A3-4 D3-4 M2 Cost 6
    Can Blitz
    Allow Mechanized Infantry or Mechanized Artillery to Blitz on 1 on 1 basis or a 1:1:1 basis.
    _Gives +1A/D to Mechanized Artillery when paired 1:1 with

    MA+Tank: A6 D6 M2 Cost 11 IPCs.
    MA+MA: A4 D4 M2 Cost 10 IPCs.
    MI+MA: A4 D4 M2 Cost 9 IPCs.


    As we can see: 1 MI + 1 Tank = A5 D5 M2, blitz, Cost 11
    is 1 attack and 1 Defense point below my optimized MA+Tank.

    From a balance perspective, a A/D 3 should cost 5.5 IPCs to be in par to A/D 2 at 4.5 IPCs.

    You need 11 units Att@2 to be a match to 9 units Def@3:
    Overall %*: A. survives: 48.2% D. survives: 50% No one survives: 1.8%
    http://calc.axisandallies.org/?mustland=0&abortratio=0&saveunits=0&strafeunits=0&aInf=&aArt=11&aArm=&aFig=&aBom=&aTra=&aSub=&aDes=&aCru=&aCar=&aBat=&adBat=&dInf=&dArt=&dArm=9&dFig=&dBom=&dTra=&dSub=&dDes=&dCru=&dCar=&dBat=&ddBat=&ool_att=Bat-Inf-Art-AArt-Arm-Sub-SSub-Des-Fig-JFig-Cru-Bom-HBom-Car-dBat-Tra&ool_def=Bat-Inf-Art-AArt-Arm-Bom-HBom-Sub-SSub-Des-Car-Cru-Fig-JFig-dBat-Tra&battle=Run&rounds=&reps=10000&luck=pure&ruleset=AA1942&territory=&round=1&pbem=

    This 1 MI + 1 Tank = on avg. A2.5 D2.5 Cost 5.5 IPCs.

    The other 1 MI + 1 Art = A4 D4 M2, no blitz, Cost 9 worth on average:
    A2 D2 Cost 4.5 IPCs. It is right on balance cost! The optimized choice.

    The MI + Tank is slightly weaker A-.5 D-.5 to the rightly balance combat value for the price.

    Knowing that 1 Tank is .5 IPCs above his right price, I would add that MI+Tank Blitz is the only advantage over MI + towed Artillery mix.

    The bonus on transport (can hold 1 MI+ 1 Tank) can be also a pretty good way to balance it up.
    Especially to get a competitive situation against Axis._

  • '17 '16

    @Young:

    Nice post CWO Marc, Love the pic of the two artillery units.

    The only worry I have with this house rule is that it’s gonna favor the Axis in many more ways than the Allies. I’m wondering if there is a way we can add something similar to a different unit that the Allies can use more than the Axis.

    I used the smaller one as my Anti-Tank Gun sculpt for Italy and Japan.

    Help!: I cannot insert this CWO Marc’s image into my post. What am I doing wrong?

  • '17 '16 '15

    Added the new mech infantry unit to TripleA.

    C5 M2 A1 (2 w/arty) D2

    It gives +1M to artillery on a 1:1 basis. Can’t blitz on it’s own or with artillery unless you get improved mech infantry tech. Blitzes normal when paired with tank.

    Also per wittman’s suggestion reduced the transport cost of US,UK,UKP and ANZAC mech to two. So you can pack a mech and one other transportable unit.

    Haven’t had a chance to play a game yet. I agree with YG it looks like more of a boost to the Axis but Germany will have to spend an extra buck for mech now. It will be interesting to see what effect that has. They could set up a shuttle out of Germany and pack artilleries similar to what naval transports do. Also as wittman noted it should help the allies in N Afirca as well as the Brits in S Afirca. A lot of possibillities. Will be fun to find out how it plays.

    A couple things in regard to TripleA. Tanks also give movement bonus to artillery (which they shouldn’t) so you’ll have to player enforce. Also if you move both artillery and mech one space and stop it won’t let the artillery move again. It has to be done in one move. Occasionally there will be a legal move it won’t let you perform (usually to do with a alternate route instead of a blitz). Undo all your moves and edit accordingly. It won’t let you edit in the middle of a move.

    I’ll post this with the TripleA mods as well but wanted to put it here in case you don’t want 20 mods cluttering up your map space. Open TripleA, open maps, open the Global zip. Put the objectives there. Open games and put the xml there. Put the units in the units folder accordingly. Be sure to put the UK mech in all three UK folders.

    P

    MINf.zip

  • '17 '16

    @Young:

    New G40 unit profile created through discussion and collaboration.

    Mechanized Infantry

    Cost - 5 IPCs
    Move - 2
    Attack - 1 (2 when combined with an artillery or tank unit)
    Defense - 2

    Special abilities:

    _Each mechanized infantry unit may pull an artillery unit up to 2 spaces during the combat movement phase, or non combat movement phase (both units must originate from the same territory).

    Mechanized infantry may blitz when combined with a tank (both units must originate from the same territory), however, mechanized infantry may not pull artillery units when blitzing with a tank._

    Hi Barney,
    I suppose it was not possible to add the +1A bonus for pairing with Tank unit.
    MI bonus, is too much hard coded into Triple A, right?

  • '17 '16 '15

    Hi Baron

    You get the +1 A w/tank when you get Improved mech infantry tech. The tank just lets you blitz 1:1 same as OOB. Do you think the Mech at C5 needs to get the +1 A w/tank?  That seems a little too powerful. Also it would make the tech worthless but it could always be replaced w/ another one. Although improved mech would allow the arty to blitz as well.

    But no it shouldn’t be too hard to add the +1 A to mech.

  • '17 '16

    I’m fine with both.
    Whether a Tech or a starting feature it is balanced.
    On one side, Axis cannot used this bonus for Tank+MI and on the other hand USA can research to improve MI to reach the pairing bonus with Tank.
    That’s OK.
    The starting transport bonus for MI is balancing things out, anyway, even without the Tank bonus.

  • '17 '16

    @barney:

    Hi Baron
    You get the +1 A w/tank when you get Improved mech infantry tech. The tank just lets you blitz 1:1 same as OOB. Do you think the Mech at C5 needs to get the +1 A w/tank?  That seems a little too powerful. Also it would make the tech worthless but it could always be replaced w/ another one. Although improved mech would allow the arty to blitz as well.

    But no it shouldn’t be too hard to add the +1 A to mech.

    Hi Barney,
    Is it easy to change a Tech so such Mech Inf Tech gives Attack 2 by itself?
    And Attack 3 when paired 1:1 with either Artillery or Tank?

    I asked because that way, it can be easier to accept the changes coming in Opening Post Mechanized Infantry unit suggested by YG.

    @Young:

    New G40 unit profile created through discussion and collaboration.

    Mechanized Infantry

    Cost - 5 IPCs
    Move - 2
    Attack - 1 (2 when combined with an artillery or tank unit)
    Defense - 2

    Special abilities:

    _Each mechanized infantry unit may pull an artillery unit up to 2 spaces during the combat movement phase, or non combat movement phase (both units must originate from the same territory).

    Mechanized infantry may blitz when combined with a tank (both units must originate from the same territory), however, mechanized infantry may not pull artillery units when blitzing with a tank._

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