This plan doesn’t ignore Japan, that’s a compete foolish move in my opinion. I just build bombers enough to keep Germany annoyed while maintaining a Pacific Fleet. As I said before, I build a 1:1 build against Japan and make sure Hawaii doesn’t get captured.
Sea zone 102
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Yes Germany could do all of that, but it would take all of their money. Again, Russia gets the upper hand in the east because Germany didn’t spend a dime there. They would basically be spending everything they had in the first 3 turns plus 20 ground units from the opening set up. Also, if they save their battleship then there’s a strong chance that there are UK boats left to assault 110 after America throws their planes at it. The loaded carrier in 102 plus bombers makes Sealion a very bad idea any way you look at it. Those units are not a waste of money after that either as they can be used effectively. Also, you might have noticed that I still managed to place a carrier and a sub in the Pacific on the first 2 turns. If Germany doesn’t buy a ton of transports then you can spend most or all of US 3 in the Pacific now. Mission accomplished with boats in both oceans to move forward.
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I think we are looking at SZ110 the wrong way.
Lets make the assumption that Sea Lion is a go and Germany is going all in.
Why are they building CV again? You can spend 30 IPC for 2 airfields, one for Normandy and one for Belgium and have 6 planes able to scramble into that SZ and provide the same as 3 CV in FTR protection on that SZ.
The idea that Germany needs a CV to be able to provide FTR protection of the fleet is not needed and can be covered with Airfields.
SZ112 is covered by a airfield SZ 113 is covered by a airfield. There is no need for CV from Germany to cover the fleet. Germany with the purchase of just one airfield can cover SZ110.
Maybe it is just me but a CV can be sunk. A Airfield who does the same role, protect the fleet, does it better with 3 aircraft scramble, cannot be destroyed in less taken by land units on a invasion is the way to go.
Hey, I get it, having a German CV looks cool on the board but in the big picture is a total waste of IPC in the early game. Land based aircraft on coastal Airfields is all Germany needs.
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You’re ignoring the additional defence that a CV provides. A CV can be moved later but an airbase can’t. You’re also assuming that you have additional planes that could be placed on the airbases.
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Well that is very true, Iam making some assumptions.
#1 if you have a CV you need two planes. Regardless of bought or on the board.
#2 If you have airbase it has 1-3 planes on it regardless of bought or on the board.
So, that is a total wash. The planes have to come from some where.
#3 A CV’s defense in a naval stack is of no importance. So, you have a stack of navy with a CV and 2 FTRS. You replace that out with 3 FTR land based units and remove the CV from the defense you are actually better off for inflicting CAS. Now, I will concede that a airbase on the coast cannot take a hit and absorb one CAS against you. That is the one advantage a CV has over a Airbase on the coast.
#4 Where again is this German CV moving again? It is not like a German CV is going on a rampage across the Atlantic headed for USA. It is sticking to the coasts of Europe or the coasts of the Med, where they also have Airbases to guard them.
Bottom line for me
There are very few places a German CV is needed because land based units on a Airbase perform the exact same function on the Europe map.
The Pacific map is a totally different beast and requires CV to move air power forward to project a threat. FTR and TAC on the Pacific map almost require a CV to move them into a position to attack.
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Germany will need to leave a number of those planes in 110 or the navy will be wiped out in the scramble from London. Those are planes that they need to assault the land units in the UK.
Again, buying 2 air bases means that Germany has spent all of their money in the west. Russia wins the war in the east, America takes back London through SZ 109. If you’ve never tried using SZ 102 then I recommend that you give it a shot. Pray Germany goes Sealion so you can make it a short game for Berlin. If they don’t go Sealion then you have a loaded carrier and 4 bombers to throw at the Axis.
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#4 Where again is this German CV moving again? It is not like a German CV is going on a rampage across the Atlantic headed for USA. It is sticking to the coasts of Europe or the coasts of the Med, where they also have Airbases to guard them.
SZ91 to defend a fleet assaulting Gibraltar is the main thing for Germany. Yes, you can get away with Italy taking Gibraltar and moving directly from SZ110 to SZ92, although that does assume that the Allies don’t fortify Gibraltar significantly.
Then they can move into the Med and be used in the assault on Egypt, or even sail towards Cape Horn.
CV are better then airbases in any case.
I wouldn’t say any case. What about if the Allies are convoying SZ6 or SZ97? An airbase is way, way better because you only lose one destroyer and sink 2 1/3 subs on average. Two airbases allow sinking 4 1/3 subs per turn.
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Wow, I wish I would have seen this before my game… I needed something like this.
Thank you General HandGrenade for your video’s I am enjoying them. (Question-I dont use Youtube much what good does it do me to subscribe to your channel?)
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Wow, I wish I would have seen this before my game… I needed something like this.
Thank you General HandGrenade for your video’s I am enjoying them. (Question-I dont use Youtube much what good does it do me to subscribe to your channel?)
You would be updated when (GHG) has a new Video out.
We could open a Thread on what is better: CV over AB?.
But in all actuallity it is more a question about Tactics then strategy.
You may place a CV strategically or have an AB in a strategic Key position, but Gentlemens…
Let’s get the use of both for the best benefit of each individual Player.With a CV you are able to have four Planes max. in combat plus an AB for maximum reach.
In defence you have a Max of five Planes in combat plus one Hit could be absorbed by a CV (1 CV plus 1x AB= 5 Ftr’s).
To get the best benefit is to start thinking when, where and how can i combine CV w. AB instead of waging them against each other.
A CV for Germany can be useful if it is purchased with the Intention of a rightful sie of it.
If you Buy a CV just so you have It? My advice? Let it be.I had a few times were i bought an AB for Germany.
But it was in combination w. A CV stationed on the board.My two cents.
Sz 102 is def. a good spot for the US to put up pressure in the e.game.
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Just to add to GHG sz102 set-up: To aid UK when there is a Sea lion threat, you can also have the UK send their mech over to activate Eire on UK1 (the mech can generally make it back to London on UK2). When the Germans see your US bmr build they could free up a transport to take Scotland when they invade leaving you nowhere to land those bmrs. Activating Eire would all but insure that you have a landing place because I can’t see the Germans taking both Scotland and Eire in a Sea lion. Sparing one transport would be ruff, but 2 would be devastating.
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The lesson is that SZ102 should not be ignored.
Staging loaded carriers there is a deterrent to Sea Lion. Even if Sea Lion happens, the SZ102 aircraft along with US bombers from eastern Canada could counter-attack the German navy in SZ110. After this counter-attack, US bombers could possibly go to Scotland or Eire and the SZ102 aircraft can stage in SZ104 with the CVs and any other navy from SZ101 or UK navy from SZ106. Also, new aircraft from Eastern US could replace any air lost in the SZ110 counter.
Nothing is guaranteed, but this is a strong counter position to Sea Lion.
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Wow, I wish I would have seen this before my game… I needed something like this.
Thank you General HandGrenade for your video’s I am enjoying them. (Question-I dont use Youtube much what good does it do me to subscribe to your channel?)
Thank you for your kind words. As the next poster stated you would see alerts when a new video is posted on my channel if you also click on the little bell beside the subscribe button. That could be worth your while when I hold contests and you need to be the first to answer a question or jump through a flaming hoop of some sort. Who knows, you might even win something this week and receive it just in time for Christmas. Wouldn’t that be cool?
Other than that subscribing to anyone’s channel will not help get you chicks or raise at work or even prevent dandruff. I subscribed to Hunter Jones’ channel and I still get heartburn, although I’m not blaming him for that.
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@GHG
Dang man, I had no idea that the Axis have no chance to win this game in less they are in a tournament, time limited, format.
Stack SZ102
Perform middle earth
Hawaii shuck
S.Europe shuck
Use the vague nature of the rules to ones advantageSo, we stop sea lion, stop the Moscow crush, stop the Calcutta crush, stop Japan from taking Sydney or Hawaii and in essence the Allies win the game on Turn 15-20.
Makes all these Axis plans off attack seem, so, newb? Axis need a bid of 40?
:-D :-o :lol:
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CV are better then airbases in any case.
That is a bold statement good sir. There are no cases where it would be preferable to have a AB defending a SZ with 2-3 FTR than a CV?
@ShadoHAwk:
The AB cannot move to protect transports somewhere else, and it does not increase the range of the planes that much.
CV can be used in an invasion of gibraltar or novgorod or protect western germany, an AB is just sitting there.Lets just look at Germany, specifically their FTR and TAC.
The AB in W. Germany can hit Novgorod and have units land in Baltic states.
The AB in W. Germany covers the German Fleet in two SZ
You can hit Gibraltar from Algeria with FTR/TC OR build a AB in S. Europe and FTR/TAC can hit them and go to Northern Africa. Plus now you cover every SZ along the Med for a Allied invasion.
I seem to be confused. Is it not the Dark Skies Axis plan of attack that uses all this AB ability for Germany/Axis to project a huge amount of air power all over Europe?
I simply propose buying a few AB in some key spots to double down on this projection of power and all of sudden it is the death of Germany.
Iam discombobulated by the power of SZ102, a total mind blowing experience.
:-o
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@GHG
Dang man, I had no idea that the Axis have no chance to win this game in less they are in a tournament, time limited, format.
Stack SZ102
Perform middle earth
Hawaii shuck
S.Europe shuck
Use the vague nature of the rules to ones advantageSo, we stop sea lion, stop the Moscow crush, stop the Calcutta crush, stop Japan from taking Sydney or Hawaii and in essence the Allies win the game on Turn 15-20.
Makes all these Axis plans off attack seem, so, newb? Axis need a bid of 40?
:-D :-o :lol:
The only thing I was talking about on this thread was stopping Sealion. If you do this move that I was advocating and Germany stills goes forth with Sealion then it will be a big mistake. Barring ridiculously fortunate rolling on their part, Germany will not take Moscow if they just threw away over a hundred bucks on boats that are in the bottom of the English Channel. As long as Russia is aggressive and doesn’t allow them time to recover they will win the battle in the east. Don’t take my word for it, put the pieces down on the board like I did and try it out as many different ways as you want. Air bases, Carriers, Samurai swords, Stalin is laughing his butt off because none of those things are going to hurt Russia. If Germany doesn’t do Sealion then they will maintain the advantage. I’m not sure what you’re talking about.
The other thing that I was saying is that these first 2 US turn purchases don’t hurt you and still leave you with options. You will still need to play a great game to beat the Axis.
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I’d be interested in a vid on regaining London after Germany places 9 transports in the Ocean G2, when you can assume that they will take London. Some German players might assault Scotland to block the landing zone for the bombers.
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I’ll get to that this weekend Simon.
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Respectfully disagree to those who say a Sea Lion strategy can ever be stopped, if Germany wants to Sea Lion they will. USSR will not automatically win the game. There is a way to do it. After reading this the AB is absolutely required on turn 1. all focus must be dropped on the U.K. Navy. The opener result the is the key whether you can do it or not. I won’t elaborate too much more but will gladly test this with anyone on Triple A. I prefer live games and don’t do PBEM. My screen name is the same. I’ve been working on a way to do it and after this thread I think I found the answer to the counter. Maybe I’m wrong but I would like to try
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Respectfully disagree to those who say a Sea Lion strategy can ever be stopped, if Germany wants to Sea Lion they will. USSR will not automatically win the game. There is a way to do it. After reading this the AB is absolutely required on turn 1. all focus must be dropped on the U.K. Navy. The opener result the is the key whether you can do it or not. I won’t elaborate too much more but will gladly test this with anyone on Triple A. I prefer live games and don’t do PBEM. My screen name is the same. I’ve been working on a way to do it and after this thread I think I found the answer to the counter. Maybe I’m wrong but I would like to try
You are saying that a sea lion strategy will always get on London in spite of a G1 buy of 6art 2inf and a UK1 buy of 9inf all in London? I can’t understand your point here.
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No I’m saying there is no way to stop it if you want to do it
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No I’m saying there is no way to stop it if you want to do it
I don’t think that anybody is disputing that point. I think that what this thread has decided is: If Germany does a Sea Lion, even if it is successful there are ways that the Allies can make Germany pay for spending the time and resources to launch that attack.
But I could be wrong. I do agree with your statement: The Allies can’t stop Germany from launching Operation Sea Lion. I just also happen to agree with what I think every everyone else is saying: Germany occupying Great Britain in G2 or G3 is far from “lights out” for the Allies.
-Midnight_Reaper
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