How to balance out the game for the Allies in one easy step


  • 2016 2015 '14

    Start the game with France going first, then Germany.  Isn’t it that simple?  😮  :roll:  😄


  • 2017 2016 2015 '14 '12

    That’s actually a very good idea.  Start France Neutral so they can’t attack Holland/Normandy, but let them use the cruiser to protect the UK navy by moving the cruiser to z112 and stack Paris or maybe build some destroyers.  Germany could still wipe Paris but they could not do that AND also sink half the UK navy AND invade Russia all at the same time in Fall 1940 which is ridiculous.

    As it stands the axis have a huge advantage.  For a while there was hope that people would figure out some magical way to defend VCs on both maps, but that doesn’t seem to have panned out yet and meanwhile people keep coming up with axis strategies that seem to keep getting better and faster.



  • Agreed.  France going first sounds pretty good actually.  Germany would have to contend with a much larger France though- either they build up Paris with 6 more Infantry and move the Normandy/Southern France units to Paris or they move every French unit to Southern France to threaten Italy…


  • '12

    That could cause a bit of a problem though regarding balancing issues against the Italians.


  • 2018 2017 2016

    It’s simple yet very effective. The French player has the choice of turtling in Paris to force Germany into use a lot more planes to take the territory.

    Gives them a head start in Africa as well.



  • Well, that’s in effect a 19 point bid for the Allies right? Are the current bids in that range?

    In addition, France could move her fleet out of harms way or move to link with the British so as to preserve it and keep it in play for an extended period. France could then add 6 more infantry to Paris, plus move in more troops to make even taking it not a sure thing.

    Is this what you want? Not sure that’s a “balancing” change, might just be too much for Germany to overcome and have anything left for the UK turn one.

    Kim


  • 2017 2016 2015 '14 '12

    Bids don’t seem to be cutting it.  As of today, in the 2013 G1940 league there are 91 wins for axis and 75 for allies even with bids.

    Letting France go first as a neutral for 1 turn seems like such an elegant solution to so many problems (UK fleet too vulnerable, Paris too easy, Russia too weak), and it would be so easy to implement it, even with TripleA (ie just edit changes for France before Germany goes).



  • I don’t know, it is worth a shot- but I think the biggest issue is to move ALL available French units to Southern France-  Can threaten Northern Italy from there, and Germany cannot take Southern France in this case-  it would have to Garrison Northern Italy and take Paris (and Normandy).



  • 93 moves to 91, 110 moves to 112, paris fighter moves to scotland.  Or 93 fleet moves to 96 to help out the brits.


  • 2017 2016 2015 '14 '12

    What I would do is build a destroyer in z93, move a destroyer to z94, a cruiser to z112, a cruiser to z91, and load up Paris with a second AA gun and 2 infantry, then move all land units and Scotland fighter to Paris.



  • @variance:

    What I would do is build a destroyer in z93, move a destroyer to z94, a cruiser to z112, a cruiser to z91, and load up Paris with a second AA gun and 2 infantry, then move all land units and Scotland fighter to Paris.

    I realize you want to put damage on Germany, but you could seriously threaten Italy with a French stack in Southern France.


  • 2017 2016 2015 '14 '12

    Its nice that there could be a couple approaches to what France could do.


  • 2016

    A fully loaded French Carrier in the Med to compliment the cruiser and the destroyer.  Just what the Italians need!



  • Or maybe attack northern italy straight up, kills the major and the precious bomber.


  • 2017 2016 2015 '14 '12

    @majikforce:

    A fully loaded French Carrier in the Med to compliment the cruiser and the destroyer.  Just what the Italians need!

    or 110



  • Maybe this is too much… Maybe the French cannot move but can spend its money?  Or they don’t start with any money?


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Moderator

    You cannot have France attack Italy with the units as they are, as Italy would be neutered worse than it normally is by UK’s attacks upon it.

    Remember Italy declared war 12 days before Paris fell.
    They were Neutral for one month (10th May-10th June) of the German invasion of France.
    France cannot attack them, because Mussolini only DW when it looked like France was finished.

    Sorry everyone, but I do not think France going before Germany will work with the set up and history.


  • 2016 2015 '14

    I love hearing all of these different ideas.  In order to not unbalance it too much, perhaps France starts as a neutral (similar to Russia).  At least then there would be some play with the French units, while not allowing France to neuter Italy and so forth.  It just seems like a much better concept than the Allied 18ish bid.  France going first would allow the Allies to dictate some of the initial play in the European theatre, something which they don’t currently have, and certainly do not have in the early Pacific war.



  • If you’re worried about historical accuracy just go with the France neutral idea and say that France can’t DOW on anyone.

    Also…… French infantry in FIC please!  :roll: Not for balance issues. It just annoys me.



  • if you want france to go before germany, it could work, but only if you let italy go before france 🙂

    that way you could save the italian fleet, and make sure france could not destroy italy, but germany would not be able to do everything 🙂


  • 2017 2016 '13 '12

    It would make the game more dynamic and more fun for the Allies, who are otherwise just responding to Axis initiative.



  • One problem with having France go first (among others) is the time line would be incorrect. Fance was not neutral having declared war in 1939 after the invasion of Poland.

    the game actually begins on the eve of the invasion of France. Demmark and Norway where captured by Germany in April of 1940 and are already in German hands at teh start of the game. The UK starts with control of Iceland, where infact Britain invaded Iceland the same day Germany invaded France.

    Having France go first and you would have to back-up the game timeline from where it was designed to start. Also, having the Germans roll over the French right off the bat is the way Larry wanted this game to work. Changing that design concept makes this a very different game.

    Kim


  • 2017 2016 2015 '14 '12

    If france starts the game neutral for a turn, Germany could still steamroll it even if they put all available units in Paris.  In terms of historical reality, the setup as it is right now is ridiculous.  Just imagine Germany in Fall 1940 sweeping France, sinking most of the royal navy, invading East Poland, Baltic States, Bessarabia and Yugoslavia, and at the same time Japan taking Malaya, Borneo, Hong Kong and the Philippines.  That’s what is happening when some people do a G1 and J1 combo, which may or may not be an efficient way to win the game but it is certainly possible to do it.



  • @variance:

    If france starts the game neutral for a turn, Germany could still steamroll it even if they put all available units in Paris.  In terms of historical reality, the setup as it is right now is ridiculous.  Just imagine Germany in Fall 1940 sweeping France, sinking most of the royal navy, invading East Poland, Baltic States, Bessarabia and Yugoslavia, and at the same time Japan taking Malaya, Borneo, Hong Kong and the Philippines.  That’s what is happening when some people do a G1 and J1 combo, which may or may not be an efficient way to win the game but it is certainly possible to do it.

    That’s just it. France is NOT neutral, she declared war in 1939. That’s why there are British troops on French soil when the game starts.

    I suggest that if anyone wants France to start the game first to please play some games and report how they go, we would all be interested in the results.

    Kim



  • Remove 19 IPC worth of french units from France, then let it go first 🙂

    I think a french-first scenario would require a whole new board setup for all powers. In terms of gameplay speed, often (as the axis) i play a long german turn, then after a short russian turn i take my time with japan, then i dont play again for an HOUR. I would enjoy a setup where the axis powers are more spread out in the turn order.


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