I can certainly see you’ve made a bunch of modifications to the game.
What you do in Classic to remove the Eastern Europe/Karelia standoff?
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How would you propose to alter:
Eastern Europe
Karelia
Ukraine
Caucasusso that:
- The huge stack between EE and Karelia is instead moved to Caucasus or Ukraine and
- The Germans can take a ‘southern’ route to Moscow, rather than getting pinched from adjacent Soviet Factory ( in karelia)…What im saying is typically moving out of EE to say Ukraine, means the Karelia force kills you because it is adjacent, my thinking is to cut Ukraine into two spaces ( White Russia and Ukraine) and cut (Caucasus into Rostov-on-Don and Caucasus)…would Rostov and Ukraine touch? Would White Russia and Caucasus touch? would all of them touch?
Also, note usually when Germany moved to Ukraine and or Caucasus, the Soviets would pinch EE and be adjacent to Berlin…not good. For this i feel EE should have a new area between EE and Karelia ( Baltic states?). - in your solution would you place the Karelia factory in another area to avoid the stack issue? perhaps one space back, or in Caucasus?
- would you cut EE into two areas?
I feel the rest of the map are perfect, but i always never really liked the WW1 feel of EE and Karelia. It was too static.
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Add the Pripet Marshes?
As you stated, breaking up the territories some how is the only way…
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No reply policy…remember.
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@Imperious:
How would you propose to alter:
Eastern Europe
Karelia
Ukraine
Caucasus
….I feel the rest of the map are perfect, but i always never really liked the WW1 feel of EE and Karelia. It was too static.
I think the best way would be to split Karelia into two pieces and remove the factory. This would give Germany the choice of either going north or south (though the US/UK would probably still be dumping forces to Norway, then the adjacent Russian territory). Germany could opt to go North in hopes of cutting the US/UK from the USSR (unlikely unless the game was otherwise changed such as by a bid) or South and avoid (for a while) the allied troops.
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where is the 2nd soviet factory going? They need 2.
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Long time ago when I played the old version, I had a strategy where Germany would push out a 10+ stack of infantry into Ukraine and then push that one to Caucasus and then move the main army with tanks from EE to Ukraine. The USSR player had the hard choice of either attacking both or one of the stacks and/or pull back to Moscow. Basically the USSR could probably kill the front stack, but that would weaken the Karelia army so it would have to retreat. Usually they had to pull back to Moscow and Germany could take Leningrad.
Call it the centipede creep
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@Imperious:
where is the 2nd soviet factory going? They need 2.
(I kn ow I am late to this thread, but anyway…)
One option would be to put it in Russian held Manchuria (so Japan could potentially pick it off early). I think this would further tilt the game towards the axis (though perhaps Russia would be better able to hold the far east in this case :? ).
But I think I would place it in Novo which best represents the actual movement of Russian industry during the war.
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Yea novo. Manchuria cant help the other end. Novo can at least shuck to either side
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Is it out of the question to move Moscow westwards?
It really should be in the northern half of Caucasus.
See if I can rough up a map.
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Or perhaps…
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Nekro’d
My friends Griff and Oddie, the older kids that lived down the street who I first started playing with in the late 80s early 90s used to have an option rule where Russia could elect to move their Karelia factory to Novosibirsk before the game started, and another version of the Rule where Russia could do this after the first round (restricted opening). It was our favorite because it allowed for a somewhat more dynamic situation around China/South Asia and less boring grind on Karelia. They also had a rule where factories could be destroyed by their owner, at the end of their turn. It was like a final gamephase of the turn, option to scorch the earth.
In general I am fond of adjustments that don’t require people to alter the physical map. So splitting Eastern Europe is somewhat less desirable for me as a solution to the stagnant Eastern Front, because I don’t want to draw lines on the board. I think moving the factory to Novosibirsk was a pretty cool solution that was pretty simple to implement. It didn’t totally screw the Eastern dynamic, since UK could still cover on the shuck, basically it just turns Karelia into a deadzone.
The first map flashman posted looks almost dead on to the games I remember they used to play.
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Easy and it is what I did immediately upon seeing the ABORTION of a map that A&A had at the time. Make the boundaries of these 4 places realistic……
- Have the Caucasus be the actual mountainous area plus the southern plains to the immediate north only.
- Have Ukraine directly border Caucasus, Moscow & Eastern Europe (& Balkans)
- Have Eastern Europe border Ukraine, Russia, Karelia (& Southern Europe & Germany)
- Have Karelia border Eastern Europe, Russia & Khanty-Mansi (as it should)
‘Easy - peasey’.
That original map was a giant turd! One of the worst, if not the worst, map produced for a very popular game. The game is great - that map crap.
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