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Pacific Turning Point: Midway or Guadalcanal
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One answer to ABWorsham’s question would be to say that Midway was the turning point in the Central Pacific theatre of operations (which was the theatre for which Nimitz and the Navy were primarily responsible) and that Guadalcanal was the turning point in the South West Pacific theatre of operations (which was the theatre for which MacArthur and the Army were primarily responsible).
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Let’s not forget that the Japanese in a last ditch attempt to gain air control over Guadalcanal sent most of their carrier aircraft to Rabaul in use of land operations.
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I would say the tide had started to turn at the battle of the coral sea where zuikaku and shokaku were knocked out of action and kept from midway. With 24 Essex class carriers that would eventually enter the war Japan needed to win huge lopsided victories to have a shot so losing 3 carriers at midway was obviously a disaster. If zuikaku and shokaku were in action and Japan had 6 carriers for midway perhaps the results would have been none lost for the Japanese and 3 for the americans.
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US Intellegence had improved dramatically between the battles of the Coral Sea and Midway.
The combination of Yorktown’s
1 Coral Sea survival,
2 return to Pearl Harbor, and
3 feverish rapid repair work by the yard workersenabled her meeting up with other forces for the Decisive victory at Midway.
#3 is very important not only since the Japanese pilots reported her already sunk at Coral Sea but also because initial repair estimates were around 3 months of dock time repairs to be sea worthy.
#3 is considered a providential miracle.
Yorktown was finally sunk in that battle.
But the balance by then had already shifted away from the IJN.
The Almighty had knit together a victory for the Americans that day from threads back to Dec 7 and beyond.The keels of each major US ship in the Midway battle were all laid prior to WWII.
US Carriers and naval fighter planes participating in subsequent battles were products of our increasing wartime industrial production.
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The decisive battle wasn’t really won until “the great marianas Turkey shoot”
The only early war carrier the USN still had (IJN had sunk the rest) was the enterprise but the introduction of the essex class carriers in large numbers had made their navy larger then ever.
The IJN still had
Taiho (new)
Shokaku
Zuikaku
Junyo
Zuihowhich were all good carriers (there was a bunch of lighter ones as well in the battle).
Plus the introduction of the Jill Torpedo bomber and the Judy (an improvement on the val).
Even though the elite air crews were rarer thanks to midway and guadacanal there still was elite personal available at the phillipine battle infact it was mostly these elite people who survived it while the newer pilots and crew got massacred.
The point is that even at the phillipines battle the IJN was still a force to be reckoned with and had better numbers and units then they did at Midway. It was the absolute destruction of carriers and especially planes at this battle which was the decisive one in the conflict which led to leyte gulf where the IJN carriers were empty decoys.
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Marines fighting over dirt, PALES in comparsion to fleets fighting over area’s of operation. � IMO anways, and certainly at the Axis and Allies level.:P
Case in point… a Midway that goes sideways for the Allies, could quite possible could mean, a Guadalcanal that never happens.
I agree with Gar on this one. Without the win at Midway the invasion of Guadalcanal would not have been attempted when it was.
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Midway of course!
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Midway. The carriers were irreplaceable.
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Midway!
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As a navy guy, when we say fleets, please keep in mind that the fleets never saw each other, and this is not only THE turning point in the Pacific, but a historical first, and why we have our “super carriers” of today. This is also why missing the carriers by a week in Pearl Harbor in concert with the fuel tanks was COSTLY for Japan.
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As a navy guy, when we say fleets, please keep in mind that the fleets never saw each other, and this is not only THE turning point in the Pacific, but a historical first.
Actually, the first naval engagement in which the opposing fleets never saw each other was the Battle of the Coral Sea, which took place shortly before Midway.
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ack…you’re right…should have fact checked it before looking dumb…too late!
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gotta be careful of that, there a a few lurkers here, that would jump all over you for such an error :roll:
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Guadalcanal relieved the enemy of any idea that the United States was going to be a push over. The marines showed themselves willing to endure sacrifice.
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I once stated in football terms, that Midway was similar to Japan throwing a interception returned for a touchdown during a tied game. Guadalcanal was a 20 play drive for a touchdown.
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Was Hiroshima an on-side kick?
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The turning point was when Japan attacked USA.
Japan winning those battles only postpones the the final result.
Japan needed to finish off China, or settle that war by armistice.
Then take the dutch assets and the British alone and consolidate for 10 years.
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@ABWorsham:
I once stated in football terms, that Midway was similar to Japan throwing a interception returned for a touchdown during a tied game. Guadalcanal was a 20 play drive for a touchdown.
Since I know zero about football, I don’t grasp any of this – but your analogy sounds interesting. Could you explain or restate it in different terms?
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I thought it pretty too Wors, but wasn’t going to say: eh?
Funny how we speak the same language, but still are worlds apart at times. -
@Imperious:
The turning point was when Japan attacked USA.
Japan winning those battles only postpones the the final result.
Japan needed to finish off China, or settle that war by armistice.
Then take the dutch assets and the British alone and consolidate for 10 years.
The reason why japan attacked indonesia and UK was because they needed the resources for the war in china.
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