@Entek italy up
BOOM! G40BM3 Karl7 Axis +6 vs Gargantua and Canuck 12 This is for the 1st Born!
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TripleA Turn Summary: Russians round 20
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 3.4
Game History
Round: 20 Purchase Units - Russians Russians buy 4 bombers and 1 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - Russians 1 armour moved from Bessarabia to Yugoslavia Russians take Romania from Germans Russians take Yugoslavia from Germans 1 armour moved from Eastern Poland to Greater Southern Germany Russians take Slovakia Hungary from Germans Russians take Greater Southern Germany from Germans 3 infantry moved from Baltic States to Poland Russians take Poland from Germans 1 armour and 1 mech_infantry moved from Kazakhstan to Eastern Persia 2 armour moved from Kansu to Hopei 2 armour moved from Tsinghai to Hopei 1 infantry moved from Yakut S.S.R. to Buryatia Russians take Buryatia from Germans 3 infantry moved from Yenisey to Yakut S.S.R. 1 armour moved from Timguska to Suiyuyan 1 armour moved from Novosibirsk to Shensi 2 armour and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Belarus to Vologda 2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Novgorod to Shensi 2 armour and 1 mech_infantry moved from Volgograd to Tsinghai Combat - Russians Non Combat Move - Russians 4 aaGuns, 26 armour, 26 artilleries, 25 infantry and 14 mech_infantrys moved from Eastern Poland to Slovakia Hungary 1 armour and 1 mech_infantry moved from Bessarabia to Slovakia Hungary 2 infantry moved from Bessarabia to Eastern Poland 2 armour and 1 mech_infantry moved from Belarus to Slovakia Hungary 2 armour moved from Western Ukraine to Slovakia Hungary 1 aaGun moved from Baltic States to Poland 2 armour and 1 mech_infantry moved from Novgorod to Eastern Poland Place Units - Russians Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Karelia: 1 infantry EDIT: Adding units owned by Russians to Novgorod: 1 infantry EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode 4 bombers placed in Russia Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Kazakhstan: 1 infantry EDIT: Adding units owned by Russians to Tsinghai: 1 infantry EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode 1 infantry placed in Western Ukraine Turn Complete - Russians Russians collect 53 PUs; end with 53 PUs Trigger Russians 7 Great Patriotic War: Russians met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 56 PUs Trigger Russians 2 Persia Lend Lease Lane: Russians met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 58 PUs Trigger Russians 1 Lend Lease: Russians met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 60 PUs Objective Russians 2 Spread Of Communism: Russians met a national objective for an additional 18 PUs; end with 78 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
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TripleA Turn Summary: Japanese round 20
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 3.4
Game History
Round: 20 Purchase Units - Japanese Japanese buy 4 fighters and 8 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 3 SuicideAttackTokens; Combat Move - Japanese 1 armour moved from Kwangtung to 20 Sea Zone 1 armour and 2 transports moved from 20 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone 2 infantry moved from Philippines to 35 Sea Zone 1 armour, 2 infantry and 2 transports moved from 35 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone 1 armour and 2 infantry moved from 55 Sea Zone to Northern Territory 1 infantry moved from Kwangsi to 36 Sea Zone 1 infantry and 2 transports moved from 36 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone 2 armour moved from Shan State to 37 Sea Zone 2 armour, 1 infantry and 2 transports moved from 37 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone 2 armour and 1 infantry moved from 55 Sea Zone to Northern Territory 1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 1 transport moved from 56 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from 54 Sea Zone to Queensland 1 destroyer moved from 54 Sea Zone to 49 Sea Zone 2 fighters moved from 55 Sea Zone to Queensland 4 fighters moved from 56 Sea Zone to Queensland 11 fighters and 7 tactical_bombers moved from 54 Sea Zone to Queensland Combat - Japanese Battle in Northern Territory Japanese attack with 3 armour and 3 infantry Americans defend with 1 fighter Japanese roll dice for 3 armour and 3 infantry in Northern Territory, round 2 : 1/6 hits, 2.00 expected hits ANZAC roll dice for 1 fighter in Northern Territory, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.67 expected hits 1 fighter owned by the Americans lost in Northern Territory Japanese win, taking Northern Territory from ANZAC with 3 armour and 3 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 10 Casualties for Americans: 1 fighter Battle in Queensland Japanese attack with 17 fighters, 1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 7 tactical_bombers ANZAC defend with 2 aaGuns, 1 airfield, 3 armour, 3 artilleries, 1 factory_minor, 3 fighters, 1 harbour and 4 infantry; Americans defend with 1 bomber and 10 fighters AA fire in Queensland : 0/6 hits, 1.00 expected hits Japanese roll dice for 2 battleships in Queensland, round 2 : 2/2 hits, 1.33 expected hits Japanese roll dice for 17 fighters, 1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 7 tactical_bombers in Queensland, round 2 : 20/26 hits, 13.50 expected hits ANZAC roll dice for 2 aaGuns, 3 armour, 3 artilleries, 1 bomber, 13 fighters and 4 infantry in Queensland, round 2 : 12/24 hits, 12.67 expected hits 11 fighters owned by the Japanese, 3 armour owned by the ANZAC, 1 mech_infantry owned by the Japanese, 4 infantry owned by the ANZAC, 3 artilleries owned by the ANZAC, 2 aaGuns owned by the ANZAC, 9 fighters owned by the Americans and 1 bomber owned by the Americans lost in Queensland Japanese roll dice for 6 fighters, 1 infantry and 7 tactical_bombers in Queensland, round 3 : 7/14 hits, 7.67 expected hits ANZAC roll dice for 4 fighters in Queensland, round 3 : 2/4 hits, 2.67 expected hits 2 tactical_bombers owned by the Japanese, 3 fighters owned by the ANZAC and 1 fighter owned by the Americans lost in Queensland Japanese win, taking Queensland from ANZAC with 6 fighters, 1 infantry and 5 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 58 Casualties for Japanese: 11 fighters, 1 mech_infantry and 2 tactical_bombers Casualties for ANZAC: 2 aaGuns, 3 armour, 3 artilleries, 3 fighters and 4 infantry Casualties for Americans: 1 bomber and 10 fighters Non Combat Move - Japanese 2 carriers moved from 56 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone 3 destroyers moved from 56 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone 2 destroyers moved from 20 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone 1 infantry moved from Kiangsu to 19 Sea Zone 1 infantry moved from Shantung to 19 Sea Zone 2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 19 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone 2 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys moved from Anhwe to Kiangsu 2 infantry moved from 35 Sea Zone to Philippines 1 fighter moved from French Indo China to Kiangsu 1 fighter moved from Japan to Kiangsu 1 infantry moved from Chahar to Anhwe 3 aaGuns, 6 artilleries and 13 infantry moved from West India to India 5 armour, 3 infantry and 9 mech_infantrys moved from Burma to India 1 armour moved from Yunnan to India 1 infantry moved from Yunnan to Kwangsi 1 infantry moved from Szechwan to Yunnan 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Queensland to 54 Sea Zone 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Queensland to 54 Sea Zone 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Queensland to 54 Sea Zone 1 carrier moved from 54 Sea Zone to 45 Sea Zone 1 carrier moved from 55 Sea Zone to 45 Sea Zone 1 destroyer moved from 55 Sea Zone to 45 Sea Zone 1 destroyer moved from 41 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 42 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone 2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Queensland to 55 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from Queensland to 54 Sea Zone 1 carrier moved from 54 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone 1 carrier moved from 54 Sea Zone to 45 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from 54 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone Place Units - Japanese 3 infantry placed in Shantung 3 infantry placed in Kwangtung Japanese undo move 2. 3 infantry placed in India 1 fighter and 2 infantry placed in Kwangtung 1 fighter placed in Japan 2 fighters placed in French Indo China Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from 55 Sea Zone: 2 destroyers EDIT: Adding units owned by Japanese to 41 Sea Zone: 1 destroyer EDIT: Adding units owned by Japanese to 45 Sea Zone: 1 destroyer EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Turn Complete - Japanese Japanese collect 53 PUs; end with 53 PUs Objective Japanese 3 Control Honolulu Or Sydney Or Calcutta Or Western United States: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 58 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
ANZAC : -2.00 AA fire in Queensland : : -1.00 Japanese : 5.50 -
TripleA Turn Summary: Japanese round 20
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 3.4
Game History
Round: 20 Purchase Units - Japanese Japanese buy 4 fighters and 8 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 3 SuicideAttackTokens; Combat Move - Japanese 1 armour moved from Kwangtung to 20 Sea Zone 1 armour and 2 transports moved from 20 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone 2 infantry moved from Philippines to 35 Sea Zone 1 armour, 2 infantry and 2 transports moved from 35 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone 1 armour and 2 infantry moved from 55 Sea Zone to Northern Territory 1 infantry moved from Kwangsi to 36 Sea Zone 1 infantry and 2 transports moved from 36 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone 2 armour moved from Shan State to 37 Sea Zone 2 armour, 1 infantry and 2 transports moved from 37 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone 2 armour and 1 infantry moved from 55 Sea Zone to Northern Territory 1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 1 transport moved from 56 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from 54 Sea Zone to Queensland 1 destroyer moved from 54 Sea Zone to 49 Sea Zone 2 fighters moved from 55 Sea Zone to Queensland 4 fighters moved from 56 Sea Zone to Queensland 11 fighters and 7 tactical_bombers moved from 54 Sea Zone to Queensland Combat - Japanese Battle in Northern Territory Japanese attack with 3 armour and 3 infantry Americans defend with 1 fighter Japanese roll dice for 3 armour and 3 infantry in Northern Territory, round 2 : 1/6 hits, 2.00 expected hits ANZAC roll dice for 1 fighter in Northern Territory, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.67 expected hits 1 fighter owned by the Americans lost in Northern Territory Japanese win, taking Northern Territory from ANZAC with 3 armour and 3 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 10 Casualties for Americans: 1 fighter Battle in Queensland Japanese attack with 17 fighters, 1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 7 tactical_bombers ANZAC defend with 2 aaGuns, 1 airfield, 3 armour, 3 artilleries, 1 factory_minor, 3 fighters, 1 harbour and 4 infantry; Americans defend with 1 bomber and 10 fighters AA fire in Queensland : 0/6 hits, 1.00 expected hits Japanese roll dice for 2 battleships in Queensland, round 2 : 2/2 hits, 1.33 expected hits Japanese roll dice for 17 fighters, 1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 7 tactical_bombers in Queensland, round 2 : 20/26 hits, 13.50 expected hits ANZAC roll dice for 2 aaGuns, 3 armour, 3 artilleries, 1 bomber, 13 fighters and 4 infantry in Queensland, round 2 : 12/24 hits, 12.67 expected hits 11 fighters owned by the Japanese, 3 armour owned by the ANZAC, 1 mech_infantry owned by the Japanese, 4 infantry owned by the ANZAC, 3 artilleries owned by the ANZAC, 2 aaGuns owned by the ANZAC, 9 fighters owned by the Americans and 1 bomber owned by the Americans lost in Queensland Japanese roll dice for 6 fighters, 1 infantry and 7 tactical_bombers in Queensland, round 3 : 7/14 hits, 7.67 expected hits ANZAC roll dice for 4 fighters in Queensland, round 3 : 2/4 hits, 2.67 expected hits 2 tactical_bombers owned by the Japanese, 3 fighters owned by the ANZAC and 1 fighter owned by the Americans lost in Queensland Japanese win, taking Queensland from ANZAC with 6 fighters, 1 infantry and 5 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 58 Casualties for Japanese: 11 fighters, 1 mech_infantry and 2 tactical_bombers Casualties for ANZAC: 2 aaGuns, 3 armour, 3 artilleries, 3 fighters and 4 infantry Casualties for Americans: 1 bomber and 10 fighters Non Combat Move - Japanese 2 carriers moved from 56 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone 3 destroyers moved from 56 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone 2 destroyers moved from 20 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone 1 infantry moved from Kiangsu to 19 Sea Zone 1 infantry moved from Shantung to 19 Sea Zone 2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 19 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone 2 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys moved from Anhwe to Kiangsu 2 infantry moved from 35 Sea Zone to Philippines 1 fighter moved from French Indo China to Kiangsu 1 fighter moved from Japan to Kiangsu 1 infantry moved from Chahar to Anhwe 3 aaGuns, 6 artilleries and 13 infantry moved from West India to India 5 armour, 3 infantry and 9 mech_infantrys moved from Burma to India 1 armour moved from Yunnan to India 1 infantry moved from Yunnan to Kwangsi 1 infantry moved from Szechwan to Yunnan 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Queensland to 54 Sea Zone 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Queensland to 54 Sea Zone 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Queensland to 54 Sea Zone 1 carrier moved from 54 Sea Zone to 45 Sea Zone 1 carrier moved from 55 Sea Zone to 45 Sea Zone 1 destroyer moved from 55 Sea Zone to 45 Sea Zone 1 destroyer moved from 41 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 42 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone 2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Queensland to 55 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from Queensland to 54 Sea Zone 1 carrier moved from 54 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone 1 carrier moved from 54 Sea Zone to 45 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from 54 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone Place Units - Japanese 3 infantry placed in Shantung 3 infantry placed in Kwangtung Japanese undo move 2. 3 infantry placed in India 1 fighter and 2 infantry placed in Kwangtung 1 fighter placed in Japan 2 fighters placed in French Indo China Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from 55 Sea Zone: 2 destroyers EDIT: Adding units owned by Japanese to 41 Sea Zone: 1 destroyer EDIT: Adding units owned by Japanese to 45 Sea Zone: 1 destroyer EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode Turn Complete - Japanese Japanese collect 53 PUs; end with 53 PUs Objective Japanese 3 Control Honolulu Or Sydney Or Calcutta Or Western United States: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 58 PUs Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from Philippines: 2 bombers EDIT: Adding units owned by Japanese to Japan: 2 bombers EDIT: Turning off Edit ModeCombat Hit Differential Summary :
ANZAC : -2.00 AA fire in Queensland : : -1.00 Japanese : 5.50 -
TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: Japanese round 20
TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 3.4
Game History
Round: 20 Purchase Units - Japanese Japanese buy 4 fighters and 8 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 3 SuicideAttackTokens; Combat Move - Japanese 1 armour moved from Kwangtung to 20 Sea Zone 1 armour and 2 transports moved from 20 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone 2 infantry moved from Philippines to 35 Sea Zone 1 armour, 2 infantry and 2 transports moved from 35 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone 1 armour and 2 infantry moved from 55 Sea Zone to Northern Territory 1 infantry moved from Kwangsi to 36 Sea Zone 1 infantry and 2 transports moved from 36 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone 2 armour moved from Shan State to 37 Sea Zone 2 armour, 1 infantry and 2 transports moved from 37 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone 2 armour and 1 infantry moved from 55 Sea Zone to Northern Territory 1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 1 transport moved from 56 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from 54 Sea Zone to Queensland 1 destroyer moved from 54 Sea Zone to 49 Sea Zone 2 fighters moved from 55 Sea Zone to Queensland 4 fighters moved from 56 Sea Zone to Queensland 11 fighters and 7 tactical_bombers moved from 54 Sea Zone to Queensland Airborne Attack Move - Japanese ANZAC scrambles 1 units out of Queensland to defend against the attack in 54 Sea Zone ANZAC scrambles to create a battle in territory 54 Sea Zone Battle in 54 Sea Zone Japanese attack with 2 battleships, 10 carriers, 2 cruisers, 1 destroyer and 1 transport ANZAC defend with 1 fighter Japanese roll dice for 2 battleships, 10 carriers, 2 cruisers, 1 destroyer and 1 transport in 54 Sea Zone, round 2 : 3/5 hits, 2.67 expected hits ANZAC roll dice for 1 fighter in 54 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.67 expected hits Units damaged: 1 carrier owned by the Japanese 1 fighter owned by the ANZAC lost in 54 Sea Zone Japanese win, taking 54 Sea Zone from Neutral with 2 battleships, 10 carriers, 2 cruisers, 1 destroyer and 1 transport remaining. Battle score for attacker is 10 Casualties for ANZAC: 1 fighter Battle in Queensland Japanese attack with 17 fighters, 1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 7 tactical_bombers ANZAC defend with 2 aaGuns, 1 airfield, 3 armour, 3 artilleries, 1 factory_minor, 2 fighters, 1 harbour and 4 infantry; Americans defend with 1 bomber and 10 fighters AA fire in Queensland : 2/6 hits, 1.00 expected hits 2 fighters owned by the Japanese lost in Queensland Japanese roll dice for 15 fighters, 1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 7 tactical_bombers in Queensland, round 2 : 12/24 hits, 12.50 expected hits ANZAC roll dice for 2 aaGuns, 3 armour, 3 artilleries, 1 bomber, 12 fighters and 4 infantry in Queensland, round 2 : 8/23 hits, 12.00 expected hits 7 fighters owned by the Japanese, 1 infantry owned by the Japanese, 2 armour owned by the ANZAC, 4 infantry owned by the ANZAC, 3 artilleries owned by the ANZAC, 2 aaGuns owned by the ANZAC and 1 bomber owned by the Americans lost in Queensland Japanese roll dice for 8 fighters, 1 mech_infantry and 7 tactical_bombers in Queensland, round 3 : 9/16 hits, 8.83 expected hits ANZAC roll dice for 1 armour and 12 fighters in Queensland, round 3 : 7/13 hits, 8.50 expected hits 3 tactical_bombers owned by the Japanese, 4 fighters owned by the Japanese, 1 armour owned by the ANZAC and 8 fighters owned by the Americans lost in Queensland Japanese roll dice for 4 fighters, 1 mech_infantry and 4 tactical_bombers in Queensland, round 4 : 4/9 hits, 4.83 expected hits ANZAC roll dice for 4 fighters in Queensland, round 4 : 4/4 hits, 2.67 expected hits 2 tactical_bombers owned by the Japanese, 1 fighter owned by the Japanese, 1 mech_infantry owned by the Japanese, 2 fighters owned by the ANZAC and 2 fighters owned by the Americans lost in Queensland Japanese win with 3 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is -18 Casualties for Japanese: 14 fighters, 1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 5 tactical_bombers Casualties for ANZAC: 2 aaGuns, 3 armour, 3 artilleries, 2 fighters and 4 infantry Casualties for Americans: 1 bomber and 10 fighters Battle in Northern Territory Japanese attack with 3 armour and 3 infantry Americans defend with 1 fighter Japanese roll dice for 3 armour and 3 infantry in Northern Territory, round 2 : 0/6 hits, 2.00 expected hits ANZAC roll dice for 1 fighter in Northern Territory, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.67 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the Japanese lost in Northern Territory Japanese roll dice for 3 armour and 2 infantry in Northern Territory, round 3 : 3/5 hits, 1.83 expected hits ANZAC roll dice for 1 fighter in Northern Territory, round 3 : 1/1 hits, 0.67 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the Japanese and 1 fighter owned by the Americans lost in Northern Territory Japanese win, taking Northern Territory from ANZAC with 3 armour and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4 Casualties for Japanese: 2 infantry Casualties for Americans: 1 fighter Non Combat Move - JapaneseCombat Hit Differential Summary :
ANZAC : -3.17 AA fire in Queensland : : 1.00 Japanese : -1.67 -
Here is the dispute:
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I as Japan moved to attack Queensland in important battle to take Sydney.
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There was a scram option of 1 ftr to block bombard of 2 bbs
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I assumed scram option was futile, and that holding on to ftr improved defenders odds
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the battle calc supports No. 3. Without scram my chance of victory was around 40-45% give or take. With scram option my chances increased to around 50%+.
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I did the battle without scram and got a substantially above odds result.
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Allies object and want reroll of entire battle based on their right to scram, even if it hurt their defense.
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I contend this is opportunism to overturn favorable battle and instead they should get 3 rolls at 4 representing the extra fighter they would have had if they scrambled (i.e. they have 2 extra units not hit by my 2bb bombard minus one for scram – battle lasted 3 rounds).
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League rules say:
8 - Allowed Assumptions during gameplay - The purpose of assumptions is to reduce the number of game stoppages for opponent decisions (scrambling, casualty choice, intercepting, submerging, kamikazes). Because you are assuming a decision for your opponent, the opponent must always be given the benefit of the doubt, and moderators will always decide in this manner.
8a - Scrambling/intercept/submerge/kamikaze assumptions - When you make an assumption, you are accepting the risk that your opponent will disagree after seeing your turn. If your opponent takes issue with an assumption, you should come to an agreement about how to handle it. If you don’t agree, then the defender can require that the entire combat phase be re-rolled from the beginning. Or, you may seek a moderator ruling.
- So I am seeking a moderator ruling.
10 Ruling is do I reroll or do they get 3 rolls at 4.
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My strongest argument is that the scram hurt their chances so I could reasonably assume they wouldn’t scram and we should try to preserve existing rolls.
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Their strongest argument is they intended to scram anyway (I guess not knowing it hurt them) and have an absolute right to, even if it requires overturning existing dice.
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Our argument is really simple:
8a - Scrambling/intercept/submerge/kamikaze assumptions - When you make an assumption, you are accepting the risk that your opponent will disagree after seeing your turn. If your opponent takes issue with an assumption, you should come to an agreement about how to handle it. If you don’t agree, then the defender can require that the entire combat phase be re-rolled from the beginning. Or, you may seek a moderator ruling.
It would have been very easy for Karl7 to ask for scramble orders. He chose not to and assumed the risk as written above.
All we ask for is direct application of the rules. The defender has the right to scramble. If the attacker ignores this right, the defender has the right to require a re-roll of the combat phase. Karl knew this full-well when he chose to ignore our scramble option.
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in rebuttal I note 8a allows for an appeal to a moderator over the absolute right of a defender to unwind an attack to give a scram order
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There are a few other quite critical components that have been glossed over here
#1. We are all in a specific whatsapp chat dedicated to this game and it’s very easy to ask for scramble orders or clarifications, we do it all the time, and responses usually coming within a matter of minutes if not immediately.
Karl points out he knows this is an important battle. Why then are the allied options skipped over?
#2. We provided evidence of our private discussions last night (Txt msgs) that we intended to scramble 1 fgt if he went all in at Queensland, Our quick calculator reviews led us to believe this was the better choice.
#3. This game became edgy quite early on, and became a “no mistakes” death match. The allies backed off this poor gamesmanship because it takes away from the fun of the game, and we made multiple concessions to support the axis, several of which we still suffer from and have led to this latest battle.
We were also given an “I owe you one” a few turns ago. And in good faith asked for this battle to be redone based on our wishes, Our good faith has been met with presumptious discontent.
#4. Karl rerolled the battle and still won. And we accept that outcome. Yet he is still trying to wheel his way to a greedier and frankly unreasonable outcome.
#5. If the roles were reversed we would be treated with the same stiff response or worse.
#6. Throughout the game many “assumptions” have been made, several of which “post dice” have put the defending party at a disadvantage.
A prime case being an Italian attack on a british fleet, to which we planned to scramble, and would have resulted in an Italian rout, but we were again denied this choice, and the parties were forced to agree to an amicable withdrawl of the fight.
#7. These tense moments let us clarify that we need to have agreement before critical battles. And again we were denied.
That is why only a reroll will suffice in this matter. And it has happend, and the axis still achieve their objective, and we are happy to proceed, except for the indignance of the axis who refuse to allow us
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Also… I feel it’s important again to say, there would be no legal battle, no pages long posts, no need for moderation or comment, if Karl has just texted or posted.
“Battle of Sydney! Do you guys scram or take the bombard/?”
Simple
And I again reiterate and believe this was a deliberately played hand, to give a hopeless game one last chance.
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@Gargantua said in BOOM! G40BM3 Karl7 Axis +6 vs Gargantua and Canuck 12 This is for the 1st Born!:
Also… I feel it’s important again to say, there would be no legal battle, no pages long posts, no need for moderation or comment, if Karl has just texted or posted.
“Battle of Sydney! Do you guys scram or take the bombard/?”
Simple
And I again reiterate and believe this was a deliberately played hand, to give a hopeless game one last chance.
Joel is correct, I deliberately did not scram them or ask because it was the obvious worse option.
For the record, the only dispute here is if the moderator finds good reason to override the defending players redo option. Here the good reason is that it was the worse option and made no sense.
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@Karl7 !
Agree or disagree with our decision, if was ours, and attached is the proof of our intent and plan!
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I have been asked by Karl to take a look at the situation and I’ll give my thoughts.
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Obviously a lot of your chat was on whatsapp, so my question is why did Karl reroll the battle if he didn’t want to use the reroll outcome?
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As the rules say, assumptions leave the defender with the option to ask for rerolls, as it should be. However in this case, both parties seem to agree that not scrambling was the right move, so the attacker made the best choice for the defenders (despite the defenders’ intentions). In other words, with the same amount of luck in that battle, if the defenders had scrambled it could only have gone worse for the defenders.
Conclusion: only looking at this situation and not the rest of the game for favors and sportsmanship, the defenders have the right to call for a reroll, but it would be unsportsmanlike to ask for the reroll given that the battle was already fought to the best of the defenders’ ability in terms of scramble decisions. I wouldn’t rematch someone who would ask for a reroll for worse odds in a battle. The defenders should imagine that had they scrambled, it could only have gone worse.
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With respect did you even look at my text message images or comments?
At no time did I agree or believe my odds were better with no scramble and allowing bombards… so I’m not sure why that’s part of the conclusion?
I have battle calc results showing the opposite… but likely because it was such a swingy battle.
I’m not sure how to take this conclusion.
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Why don’t the rules just say that the scramble is not the defender’s choice and is only based on what the attacker thinks is best based on the battle calc?
That’s what happened here. Shall we run all games like that moving forward?
This ruling sets an unworkable precedent.
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Thanks for trying Adam lol…
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Read what I said, I ruled in the defenders’ favor. If you truly think scrambling is the best move for the defenders, you don’t have to consider it unsportsmanlike either.
Another question I have is why didn’t the cruisers bombard as well? If everything were to bombard then scrambling would have been the better move, that may be wehre the differing calc results come from.
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Thanks Adam and thanks for clarity.
I have given ALOT of leeway to the axis in this game so I’m going to stick with the reroll.
If that means that everything else I have done carries no weight, and I’m unsportsmanlike with this final call on the line, (despite proving my intent before hand) than so be it.
Aa for the bombards he was limited to two because he only landed 2.
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And yes , late last night when I made the choice to scramble with my ally, I may have been considering 4 bombards instead of 2.
But all the same, if asked that morning, I would have.
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@Gargantua True only 2 units landed.
In my opinion, what you would have done isn’t as important as what the best move available is, which Karl made for you. On 5000 runs, I get 45% attackers without scramble and 48% attackers with scramble. Can we agree that not scrambling is the best move in this situation? If so, Karl did his best short of asking the defenders for a decision.
If knowing everything you know now (except the battle outcome) about odds and such you’d still scramble (for example to prevent non-combat moves of the Queensland fleet), then you don’t have to consider it unsportsmanlike.
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@Adam514 said in BOOM! G40BM3 Karl7 Axis +6 vs Gargantua and Canuck 12 This is for the 1st Born!:
@Gargantua True only 2 units landed.
In my opinion, what you would have done isn’t as important as what the best move available is, which Karl made for you. On 5000 runs, I get 45% attackers without scramble and 48% attackers with scramble. Can we agree that not scrambling is the best move in this situation? If so, Karl did his best short of asking the defenders for a decision.
If knowing everything you know now (except the battle outcome) about odds and such you’d still scramble (for example to prevent non-combat moves of the Queensland fleet), then you don’t have to consider it unsportsmanlike.
Thanks Adam. The primary issue is right vs fact. The fact is not scrambling was the factually correct move, but they think they have the absolute right to give a scram order. Per the league rules it seems a moderator can overrule that for good reason. The good reason here being, again not scramming was the correct move and to insist on the right is just opportunism to unwind the battle.
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