2nd edition upgrade?

[zooooma]

@ShadowHAwk:

France starts with 1 but can easy be replaced by any one from another nation ( not like it survives past round 1 and will never be build anyway)
Saves you some units :D

Good idea.  Probably I will get the 1 because I’m a little OCD that way.

What about ANZAC?  In my memory they never do all that much (though I mostly only played 1st edition OOB).  Surely they wouldn’t need more than 4 or 5?

[zooooma]

Pretty much ready to order my top-ups.

I realised I think it’s been 5 years or more since I’ve played A&A, and that that’s the longest I’ve gone since discovering the game in 1990.  :-o  Have any of you ever gone 5 years?

One last question before I order pieces - are the 1942 2nd edition Artillery & AAA pieces size compatible with Global?  Some of them are a little cheaper.

Thanks!

[CWO Marc]

@zooooma:

One last question before I order pieces - are the 1942 2nd edition Artillery & AAA pieces size compatible with Global?  Some of them are a little cheaper.

The sculpts are the same size, but when I was taking the photographs for my sculpt identification charts…

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=31982.0

…I noticed some slight design differences between some of the sculpts introduced in Global 1940 2nd ed and some of the sculpts introduced in 1942 2nd ed.  Just from memory, a few examples would be: differences in the barrel design of the Soviet AAA gun (specifically in the muzzle brake) and in the breech of the German artillery unit.  Noticeable close-up, but not when you’re playing with the pieces on the game table.  I think of them as “collector’s variants” rather than as different units.

[zooooma]

Thanks!  I don’t id design differences as long as the sizes are close.

1st edition German Artillery look a lot like the new AAA guns - so I would rather get Europe or '42 2nd edition Artillery and just use old Artillery for the AAAs.

My problem right now is that HBG is out of stock for some of the pieces I need.  If money weren’t tight right now I’d just buy what they have and get the rest later.  As it is, I’m hard pressed to shell out for high end pieces is I still have to improvise for the rest - that’s exactly what I’m paying to avoid.
:-(

I guess we’ll be fine with B&W printed rules and old style AA guns for the AAAs until HBG is better stocked.
:-)

[CWO Marc]

@zooooma:

My problem right now is that HBG is out of stock for some of the pieces I need.  If money weren’t tight right now I’d just buy what they have and get the rest later.  As it is, I’m hard pressed to shell out for high end pieces is I still have to improvise for the rest - that’s exactly what I’m paying to avoid.

One cost calculation that you might try doing, to make sure that you’ve fully explored both options, is the following one:

a) Calculate how much it would cost you to obtain the desired individual AAA pieces from HBG (and anything else you might need to perform the upgrade you’re aiming for, if applicable).

b) See how much it would cost you to pick up a copy of the 1942 2nd edition game from either your local hobby store (or from a less expensive online supplier, if applicable) and use its AAA units.

If b) turns out to be cheaper than a), forget about going the individual-piece route.  This is an issue that’s come up before in other threads: people asking “what are all the individual pieces I need to buy from HBG to upgrade game X to game Y?”, on the assumption that it’s invariably cheaper to cobble together an imitation of game Y from assorted components than it is to simply buy game Y in the first place.  Depending on the circumstances, that’s not necessarily the case.

[Wolfshanze]

@CWO:

the assumption that it’s invariably cheaper to cobble together an imitation of game Y from assorted components than it is to simply buy game Y in the first place.  Depending on the circumstances, that’s not necessarily the case.Â

Unless it’s 50th Anniversary Edition A&A… it’s always cheaper to cobble together Anniversary then to buy it (unless someone who is legally insane is selling it cheap).

[zooooma]

@CWO:

b) See how much it would cost you to pick up a copy of the 1942 2nd edition game from either your local hobby store (or from a less expensive online supplier, if applicable) and use its AAA units.

I have thought about this, but I would still need AAA for Italy, ANZAC, and France, as well as nicely printed rule books.

Buying 1942 I save:
~$10 on German artillery replacements
The cost of 32 - 40 AAAs

I suspect this is cheaper than buying a full 1942 game.

The trick is I do plan on buying 1942 2nd edition too!  This is not very urgent for me though.  Any A&A in my near future will almost surely be AA50 or Global.  Even 1941 has more immediate use for me, as it’s a good teaching game.

Ultimately I do prefer to have enough pieces for both games.  Global is going to set up on my friends shelf for a long campaign.  Should I want to jam a game (or lend somebody) 1942 in the meantime, it’s better if they both have their own pieces.

It’s a good idea, but probably doesn’t solve my issues.  With any luck my finances will bounce back soon and I can buy 2nd '42, 1941, and upgrade my Global game.  :)

Edit - a copy of 1942 2nd edition might include all the pieces I need that HBG aren’t currently stocked with.  Maybe I’ll look into that…

@Wolfshanze:

Unless it’s 50th Anniversary Edition A&A… it’s always cheaper to cobble together Anniversary then to buy it (unless someone who is legally insane is selling it cheap).

I had 2 copies of AA50.  When Global 1940 was announced I figured that would kill the “grail game” status of AA50, so I quickly traded it for some other games before it dropped of in value.

I think I called that one wrong!
:lol:

[CWO Marc]

@zooooma:

I had 2 copies of AA50.  When Global 1940 was announced I figured that would kill the “grail game” status of AA50, so I quickly traded it for some other games before it dropped of in value.

I think I called that one wrong!

A friend of mine once told me that if he had kept (rather than discarding) all the now-classic comic books he had collected as a kid in the 1950s, and had sold the collection thirty years later, he would have made enough money to put his nephew through college.

[taamvan]

I collect said comics, and while that sounds true for the 8.0-10.0 quality comics (eg Batman #92 ~$400-$1200), that is not what the quality will be after having been read 10-15 times then unbagged for 60 years.

A 6.0 is worth about $120-$150 for the better issues, so maybe community college.  This is the best quality issue I have, I’ve found 2 in my lifetime.

A 1.0 is worth $20ish.

The 42.2 edition is worth playing, anyway.  One suggestion that Black Elk made was to put all your units in a tackle organizer.  All units of the same type get put in the same cell regardless of color.    This is easier than transporting the bulky, boxed games into gencon on the shuttle bus (or even maneuvering around the trays and boxes at a crowded home table), and its actually quite easy to find the pieces you need without digging through piles of units.    In your case, you could customize what’s in the organizer so that you have exactly what you need for your G40 setups, and put all that other crap (boxes, play aids, sub-boxes) away.

the game is only like $42 on amazon, its a bargain whether you need the pieces or not.

[Wolfshanze]

@taamvan:

The 42.2 edition is worth playing, anyway. One suggestion that Black Elk made was to put all your units in a tackle organizer. All units of the same type get put in the same cell regardless of color. This is easier than transporting the bulky, boxed games into gencon on the shuttle bus (or even maneuvering around the trays and boxes at a crowded home table), and its actually quite easy to find the pieces you need without digging through piles of units. In your case, you could customize what’s in the organizer so that you have exactly what you need for your G40 setups, and put all that other crap (boxes, play aids, sub-boxes) away.

Ya, I went to the hardware store and purchased five 13-bin screw organizers (using 9-bins, since I didn’t use all the optional dividers) to hold the five national units of 1942.2… that way they are neatly organized and each player gets his own bin he can keep next to him for use (the main drawback of “all nations tanks in one bin” is that you got to pass that bin around to every player, or have one guy as “the bank” of units… I still prefer the “to each his own” bin concept). For some extra looks, I made some custom flag stickers to mark the nations of each bin. Of course, I also hate chits, so I added a ton of extra units to each nation (about 70 infantry per nation, 30 tanks per nation, etc, etc).

(actually this is an older picture attached, I filled up the bins with more units since the picture was taken… lolz)

[zooooma]

@Wolfshanze:

Unless it’s 50th Anniversary Edition A&A… it’s always cheaper to cobble together Anniversary then to buy it (unless someone who is legally insane is selling it cheap).

But here would one acquire the board?
I have AA50, so it’s just a curious question.

@taamvan:

The 42.2 edition is worth playing, anyway…

…the game is only like $42 on amazon, its a bargain whether you need the pieces or not.

I have no doubt 1942 2nd is worth playing.  The question is when?

I have one friend who wants to play AA50 sometime soon but not until after golf season.  Another friend is building a shelf in his garage to host an ongoing game of Global.  I only know a few A&Aers, and we all have limited time.  When we do play a big game, we often want a one that better accommodates more friends - Britannia, Titan, Supremacy 2020, Star Trek Ascendancy, etc.

SS might be able to hook me up with the pieces I need to upgrade to Global 2nd edition.  Probably I’ll get the other versions I’ missing (1941 & 1942 2nd) later when I’m not so broke.

[Wolfshanze]

@zooooma:

@Wolfshanze:

Unless it’s 50th Anniversary Edition A&A… it’s always cheaper to cobble together Anniversary then to buy it (unless someone who is legally insane is selling it cheap).

But here would one acquire the board?
I have AA50, so it’s just a curious question.

As I mentioned previously (maybe it was another thread), you can cobble together a 50th A&A edition by having the units from either Global or from 1942.2 + buying Chinese and Italian units from HBG… the rules you can download and print the PDF file… as for the map/board? There is a 50th A&A printable board file here on the forums you can download and print.

@zooooma:

@taamvan:

The 42.2 edition is worth playing, anyway…

…the game is only like $42 on amazon, its a bargain whether you need the pieces or not.

I have no doubt 1942 2nd is worth playing. The question is when?

I only know a few A&Aers, and we all have limited time…

You just answered your own question. For a lot of people (maybe most of the people) who play 1942.2… the reason they play 1942.2 is the very reason you mentioned… “we all have limited time”… for people with work, kids, family and other time commitments, not everyone in the world has the time it takes to play 1940 Global… yes, it’s a GREAT GAME… I totally get that people love and play Global… but dang… it’s not for those with little time to spare. The time commitment for Global is pretty huge compared to a lot of other games. While 1942.2 is surely not as epic or deep as Global, it does do one thing a lot better than Global… not eat up as much of your time.

If you have the time and the friends willing for the commitment of Global, by all means play Global… but if you’re looking for a shorter afternoon so you can go out with the family and get other things done… maybe there’s a place for 1942.2 on your schedule… it won’t eat up as much time as Global.

[zooooma]

@Wolfshanze:

If you have the time and the friends willing for the commitment of Global, by all means play Global… but if you’re looking for a shorter afternoon so you can go out with the family and get other things done… maybe there’s a place for 1942.2 on your schedule… it won’t eat up as much time as Global.

As I said, Global will be set up on a shelf, and we’ll try to play for an hour or two a week while enjoying a cold beer after work.  It will take a long time to play, but I can spread that out so it fits into my busy life.

As for 1942 2nd edition, is it really that much quicker than AA50?  Regardless, I suggested recently buying 1942 2nd for a faster game, but that friend would rather play AA50.  I just wish AA50 had gotten a 2nd edition with updated SBRs and AAAs.  The other contemporary games were upgraded while poor AA50 was left behind.  That’s the only reason I can think to play 1942 2nd over AA50.

Honestly I’m looking at 1941 before getting 1942 2nd.  That game is even faster, and would be great for recruiting players!

[Wolfshanze]

@zooooma:

As for 1942 2nd edition, is it really that much quicker than AA50? Regardless, I suggested recently buying 1942 2nd for a faster game, but that friend would rather play AA50. That’s the only reason I can think to play 1942 2nd over AA50.

Is 1942.2 quicker than AA50? It is certainly quicker… how much quicker is relative… AA50 has more nations to control… that alone is going to extend playtime (7 nations a turn vs 5 nations a turn)… AA50 also has more territories and higher incomes than 1942.2 if memory serves me correctly… so you’re looking at more nations to play, more territories to conquer, more money to spend, which leads to more units to place, move and kill… these all add to the playtime of the game, which is one of the main reasons (though not on the same scale) that Global takes more time to play than AA50 or 1942.2… its simply bigger, with more nations, more territories, more income and more units to place/move/kill.

For these reasons, 1942.2 is going to play quicker than AA50… but I can’t give you a relative number like “oh, well you’ll definitely save a couple hours a session playing 42.2 over AA50”… I can’t definitively say exactly how much quicker, but the simple logistics that AA50 is a more in-depth game than 42.2 yes, 42.2 will be quicker to play.

@zooooma:

Honestly I’m looking at 1941 before getting 1942 2nd. That game is even faster, and would be great for recruiting players!

Well, there’s a lot of haters of 1941 on this Global-dominated forum, but myself and at least one other guy really appreciate 1941 for what it is… a stripped-down version of A&A, built for speed, ease and a basis to introduce new blood to the A&A world.

If you’re looking to save on the time commitment of playing A&A, if you can stomach the streamlined play, 1941 is by far the shortest-playing version of A&A that there is… as I mentioned above, the main reason is fewer territories, less income and fewer units means you have less purchases, less units to move and fight with, and less territories to conquer… all this adds up to a much smaller time commitment than its bigger brothers… and with the “fewer rules”, it makes 1941 an excellent candidate to teach people new to the world of A&A the “ropes” of the game.

Personally… I really don’t like 1941… I think its “too stripped down” for my liking, and I like spending money, of which there is little to spend in 1941. 1942.2 is more my speed/pacing, and my personal favorite of the A&A franchise (though I may cobble together an AA50 at some point… AA50 has high appeal to me thematically, scale and rules-wise). Having said that, I still appreciate 1941 for what I view it to be… a time saver and teaching/introduction tool to the A&A world, and though I don’t like 1941 personally, I’ve played it more than 1942.2 because I’ve been introducing a few friends/family to the franchise, and I always break-out 1941 to do that with.

As for you, your friends, your time commitments and the fact you already own AA50… I dunno… I still think 1942.2 is a quicker game than AA50, for the very same reasons 1941 is a quicker game than 1942.2. It’s really up to you how much time you want to save, in exchange for how much depth of A&A you’re willing to give up. 1941 is by far the quickest and shortest-playing game of the franchise, but at the same time the game that gives up the most in detail and things to do. The choice is up to you, but realize I think 1941 runs for about $15 on Amazon now… heck, just for the unique unit sculpts alone, its worth the purchase… 1942.2 is of course more expensive, but it’s about half-way between 1941 and AA50 in scale, detail and time commitment… up to you to make the final call of course…

[taamvan]

42.2 per turn is 30 minutes once you setup, which only takes 20-30 minutes and can be done before your buddies arrive or after the previous game.  Its not so gigantic like Global that it occupies the whole basement or kitchen table.

Turn 4 is the big kahuna, many strategies will culminate at that point and there is no diplomatic 4 turn (3 hour +)  run up like in Global where you have positioning before the BIG total war.

We can see the writing on the wall after 2 hours most of the time.  We play Mondays 630-9 with time to talk afterwards.  I bought the game in November and we’ve played live 30 times?  Tournament time is 4 hours, 45 minutes to the buzzer

[Wolfshanze]

@taamvan:

42.2 (is) not so gigantic like Global that it occupies the whole basement or kitchen table.

No, just the entire kitchen island… actually, that’s just me, I printed up an enlarged map of 1942.2 to take up my entire kitchen island, because I hate chits and I just wanted to have space to put a bunch of units in every territory! lol

If I had a basement I could dedicate to A&A, I’d probably have Global like everyone else with a basement seems to have.

[zooooma]

@Wolfshanze:

Is 1942.2 quicker than AA50? It is certainly quicker…

Okay, makes sense.

@Wolfshanze:

Well, there’s a lot of haters of 1941 on this Global-dominated forum, but myself and at least one other guy really appreciate 1941 for what it is… a stripped-down version of A&A, built for speed, ease and a basis to introduce new blood to the A&A world.

I’m certainly a fan of the more advanced games.  But I like to remind myself that, had MB’s 2nd edition been the last A&A game ever made, we would still be playing it and considering one of the best games ever made.

I get that 1941 is more “bare bones” than MB.  And of course I haven’t played it yet.  But I’m optimistic it will be a good game in its own right, even if it pales in comparison.

Plus there is at least 1 friend I have who is interested in learning.

@Wolfshanze:

As for you, your friends, your time commitments and the fact you already own AA50… I dunno… I still think 1942.2 is a quicker game than AA50, for the very same reasons 1941 is a quicker game than 1942.2. It’s really up to you how much time you want to save, in exchange for how much depth of A&A you’re willing to give up.

Yeah.  I was actually making a pitch for (buying and) playing 1942 but I got “talked up” to AA50 and Global!

@Wolfshanze:

The choice is up to you, but realize I think 1941 runs for about $15 on Amazon now… heck, just for the unique unit sculpts alone, its worth the purchase…

Wow, that’s hard to ignore!  I wonder what shipping to Canada comes to.  1941 & 1942 2nd are both on my want list.  Going to have to check out that Amazon deal.  :-)

[GeneralHandGrenade]

You can get both games at Amazon.ca with free 2 day shipping in Canada as well but they cost a little more. The prices shown are in Canadian dollars, whereas you have to convert if ordering from the US. I think 61 bucks for 1942 and 40something for 1941.

[zooooma]

@GeneralHandGrenade:

You can get both games at Amazon.ca with free 2 day shipping in Canada as well but they cost a little more. The prices shown are in Canadian dollars, whereas you have to convert if ordering from the US. I think 61 bucks for 1942 and 40something for 1941.

Nice - I hope those prices hold up.  I’ve been o0ff work temporarily for a couple months and going through hell with insurance.  plus I just shelled out for new Supremacy 2020 expansions against my better financial judgment.  :-P

What I want even more than the games I’m still missing is more FMG WWII dice.  I ordered some years ago, but they were so poorly stocked I could only get Germany, Italy, France, and China.

[Wolfshanze]

@zooooma:

I’m certainly a fan of the more advanced games.  But I like to remind myself that, had MB’s 2nd edition been the last A&A game ever made, we would still be playing it and considering one of the best games ever made.

I get that 1941 is more “bare bones” than MB.  And of course I haven’t played it yet.  But I’m optimistic it will be a good game in its own right, even if it pales in comparison.

IMHO, 1941 is less in every department than the 1980s MB A&A… it has fewer units in the box, fewer territories on the map, less income for all nations… it really is in every aspect, a bare-bones, “what’s the most we can remove from the game and have it still seem to be A&A” type of game there is.  But for the same reason, it is cheap to buy, easy to learn and the fastest of the series to play… but the gaming experience (IMO) is less than that of the 1980s MB A&A. If you end up hating 1941 for its gameplay, its still worth the purchase, if for nothing more than some pretty interesting unit sculpts that are unique to 1941, but fully playable with other versions of A&A (like German Tiger tanks).

The true-successor to the 1980s MB A&A out of the current lineup of games, is, in-fact, 1942.2.  More than 1941, more than AA50, and certainly more than Global, 1942.2 has the closest “feel” of 1980s MB A&A in units available, map/territories, income purchase power, overall gameplay and depth of game… it is the true successor to MB’s 1980s A&A.  Having said that, I would consider AA50 the “ultimate evolution” of the 1980s MB A&A design concept.  Global is a beast of its own… a great game, but its more of a bigger evolution of A&A and a “lets see what we can do with a game like this” rather than a refinement of the original, it’s an evolution and a taking it to the next level.