Kamikaze on carriers.



  • US sends big fleet to Japan for amphibious attack. If kamikaze take out carriers do planes participate in land battle?


  • 2017 '16 '15 '14 '12

    yes if that’s where they went in combat movement phase



  • If they win and have no place to land are they destroyed?


  • 2018 2017 '16

    The planes are considered to be in the air when the carriers are moving (They aren’t actually on the carriers when they are attacked). So if they started 2 sea zones away then the planes have flown 2 spaces already. That means that they will have 2 more spaces that they can fly before they have to land. If they have no landing that they can safely reach then they will be destroyed. That’s important to remember when you are conducting combat because you may want to lose them instead of another unit knowing that they will die anyway after combat is done.

    In your original post you said that they were participating in land combat so that is going to reduce the number of spaces you have left. If the carriers moved 2 spaces then that means that the planes have flown 3 to get to the land so they have only one more space left.

    You are far better off in most cases leaving your carriers outside of the attack zone and moving them in there on the non-combat movement phase since the Kamikaze can only be used on combat movement.



  • The issue we had was I thought that if the planes had nowhere to land they weren’t able to attack period.


  • 2018 2017 '16

    They were already in the air and as long as they had a potential landing spot before they took off they can make the attack.



  • In our games, if the air unit can’t prove a safe landing spot before dice are rolled, the air units are replaced back to original starting spot so attacker can re think the move ( how kind of us! ).

    I am sure you can’t just fly your attacking air units into any battle if there is not a safe landing spot. Surly this is illegal? The rules do say you can’t do suicide missions ( unless i’m mistaken ).
    In your question Wildcat, planning to land on your AC is a high risk move if you plan to have a use able runway on your AC.

    BH


  • 2019 2017 '16

    That is the correct rule. However, a CV which could potentially move in non combat to a SZ, including into or through a SZ requiring a battle to allow it to move is a completely valid landing spot.



  • The planes had a landing zone ( on carrier) during combat move. This is required and is shown in original question.  The kamikaze is the first step in combat phase. It does take place before dice are rolled, but it is not part of combat move phase. Therefore the planes demonstrated a valid lz on carrier then attack japan then carrier sunk then planes die during or after combat….unless you move another carrier into sz during ncm.



  • I just played a game where both sides had issues of carriers being destroyed before aircraft thus aircraft crashing. The answer is that if carriers are taken out in combat, your planes still continue to fight and by rule are required to move to the closest friendly territory if they still have the moves to make, I also assume this is legal if friendly carriers are near by. However if they have no where to go, they simply crash into the SZ. So logically, it would be wise to take loses on aircraft as much as you can however I have played enough battles to know that sometimes taking hits on your carriers is necessary.


  • 2018 2017

    A bigger question here would be:  why are the carriers moving into the hostile sea zone during the combat movement phase?  The kamikazes can only be used during that phase.  So use the aircraft during combat, then during the non-combat movement phase, move the carriers into the zone.  Carriers should rarely, if ever, be victim of kamikaze attacks in this game.


  • 2019 2017 '16

    @Navymule:

    A bigger question here would be:  why are the carriers moving into the hostile sea zone during the combat movement phase?  The kamikazes can only be used during that phase.  So use the aircraft during combat, then during the non-combat movement phase, move the carriers into the zone.  Carriers should rarely, if ever, be victim of kamikaze attacks in this game.

    Sometimes carriers are needed to soak hits. You don’t have to continuously maintain a landing spot and can remove a valid landing spot in this way, as well as by Kamikazes.



  • Besides with your logic, carriers taking two hits helps a lot but now you left your carriers in the open sitting by themselves in some SZ making them nice sweet targets.



  • @simon33:

    @Navymule:

    A bigger question here would be:  why are the carriers moving into the hostile sea zone during the combat movement phase?  The kamikazes can only be used during that phase.  So use the aircraft during combat, then during the non-combat movement phase, move the carriers into the zone.  Carriers should rarely, if ever, be victim of kamikaze attacks in this game.

    Sometimes carriers are needed to soak hits. You don’t have to continuously maintain a landing spot and can remove a valid landing spot in this way, as well as by Kamikazes.

    True but why would the other guy then use his kamis on your carriers if there are better targets available?
    I normaly use them on cruisers-destroyers as it removes dice from my opponent as well as hits.
    The less dice the other guy throws the less hits he can have.


  • 2019 2018 2017 '16

    @Caesar:

    Besides with your logic, carriers taking two hits helps a lot but now you left your carriers in the open sitting by themselves in some SZ making them nice sweet targets.

    Maybe the US player has another Set of Ftr’s who can land in them if needed.
    Maybe the Anzak player does…

    @ShadowHAwk:

    @simon33:

    @Navymule:

    A bigger question here would be:  why are the carriers moving into the hostile sea zone during the combat movement phase?  The kamikazes can only be used during that phase.  So use the aircraft during combat, then during the non-combat movement phase, move the carriers into the zone.  Carriers should rarely, if ever, be victim of kamikaze attacks in this game.

    Sometimes carriers are needed to soak hits. You don’t have to continuously maintain a landing spot and can remove a valid landing spot in this way, as well as by Kamikazes.

    True but why would the other guy then use his kamis on your carriers if there are better targets available?
    I normaly use them on cruisers-destroyers as it removes dice from my opponent as well as hits.
    The less dice the other guy throws the less hits he can have.

    Excellent SH, a reason to use up Kamis on CV’s could be if Japan sees the Allied player is coming with roll waves after you and you would like to prevent UK Pac or Anzak to use them as a landingspot. Other then that i also would choose mainly CRs and DDs as Targets.



  • Iam starting to think that you guys do not know the real power of the Kamikaze.

    The real power of the Kamikaze is that it stops shore bombardment.

    Lets use this as an example.

    USA decided to go into SZ6 and invade Japan.

    USA pushes all in and in a grand fashion pushes their units onto the shores of Japan. The USA has 3 BB and 5 CA and they are counting on those units to push the odds in their favor, DD and CV in the SZ do not matter.

    Japan launches 1 Kamikaze into the SZ. It does, what ever it does on its epic 1-2 roll. It did its job though regardless of if he hit or not. Now the USA cannot shore bombard.

    The role of the Kamikaze is to protect all Japan islands from assault by denying the invader from using shore bombardment. In essence Japan can protect it self from 6 invasions if you use just 1 Kamikaze per invasion.

    So, the power of the Kamikaze is that it forces, lets say the USA, from having to invade islands with enough force by just using ground forces and any air assets they have in range.

    The Kamikaze rules really beef up Japans defense of Japan, Phillipines and Iwo Jima IF Japan actually puts some garrison units on those key islands. Which, IMO, the vast majority of players refuse to do. The action is in China and India, no need to leave lets say, 6 INF on Iwo Jima or the Phillipines.

    Lets take a look at the Japan homeland, the most common scenario. There are times during the game that the USA could jump from Hawaii to Japan with lets say 4inf and 4 art, plus 2 BB and 4 CA. Japan only has 6 IINF, 4 ART and 1 FTR. Well that is around a 50/50 battles with the shore bombardment. Now japan could scramble its FTR to SZ6 to defend the invasion and deny the shore bombardment but that really weakens the defense of Japan. That is where sending out just 1 Kamikaze comes into play.

    It is a free move by Japan, they have 6 free Kamikaze strikes. So, the Kamikaze would deny the shore bombardment, the FTR stays on Japan to help in defense, the USA knows this and calculates the odds of the quick strike, caught them napping on the homeland plan and realizes it is a lost cause and does not invade.


  • 2019 2017 '16

    Stopping bombardments is cream on the top, not the real power of Kamikazes.

    The most awesome use of Kamikazes I’m aware of is to frighten US CVs away from SZ6 after Japan building a DD there. Then you can reclaim the SZ with a weaker fleet coming back from the money islands.



  • @simon33:

    Stopping bombardments is cream on the top, not the real power of Kamikazes.

    The most awesome use of Kamikazes I’m aware of is to frighten US CVs away from SZ6 after Japan building a DD there. Then you can reclaim the SZ with a weaker fleet coming back from the money islands.

    Well then you have failed to realize the power of Midway Island.

    USA parks 2 CV with 4 ftrs and the island has 2 Bombers and they can destroy any small fleet in SZ6 and the CV never have to move off of Midway. Kamikaze cannot stop this and the only real recourse is to divert 3 ftrs back to Japan to defend the home waters from USA air strikes into the SZ.

    Midway island is a very powerful sea zone to project air power into SZ6.


  • 2019 2017 '16

    Japan has to fly 3 ftrs home? Big deal and so what.



  • @simon33:

    Japan has to fly 3 ftrs home? Big deal and so what.

    Well, Japan most likely does not want to do that. Japan wants those ftrs on carriers or in China to crush India. That is why it is a big deal.

    The #1 asset Japan has is air power, concentrated air power. If you can force Japan to diffuse that air power to cover all over the place then Japan losses its offensive punch in China/India.



  • 1-2 FTRs back home isn’t going to make or break Japan.  And if you are leaving yourself open to multiple land invasions, it might serve you better to have those FTRs back at home.  Kamikaze does deter shore bombardments or simple attacks that open ocean allows, but it’s that threat of Kamikaze that usually results in unescorted transports or sub/air attacks only.

    If I need to send all my CVs, then it’s an all in, but proper planning can usually make one expendable to absorb the hits like talked about.  The FTRs on CVs only last the first round or two, after that, most of the opponents that kick my arse have FIC, Malay, or Yunan loaded.  1-2 FTRs North are left behind to defend Japan and Manchuria/Korea (pesky Russians!).



  • @Mallery29:

    1-2 FTRs back home isn’t going to make or break Japan.  Â

    Well, Japan starts with 2 FTRS in Japan.

    So, are you saying you are fine just leaving them there on Turn 1 as home defense and not move them to China? Leave 2 Ftrs doing nothing, just in case?

    of course not.

    Every one moves all their air assets to south east asia for the Calcutta crush / push.

    Making Japan having to move air assets back north is not what Japan wants to do.



  • No, you send for your first 3 rounds, where the Allies can’t do dick, and then as strategy adjusts (Russians move close, Allied Fleet comes North), you have to consider having a couple FTRs back North to protect the shipyard production.  If the Allied Fleet doesn’t move North at all and Russia abandons the borders to go to Moscow, then yes, the FTRs are utterly pointless.  The US isn’t in position in the first two rounds to do much, unless Japan is totally out of position.  Hence, why I say you can have the Fighter support move back, especially when your next carrier is ready to be built.



  • @aequitas:

    @Caesar:

    Besides with your logic, carriers taking two hits helps a lot but now you left your carriers in the open sitting by themselves in some SZ making them nice sweet targets.

    Maybe the US player has another Set of Ftr’s who can land in them if needed.
    Maybe the Anzak player does…

    @ShadowHAwk:

    @simon33:

    @Navymule:

    A bigger question here would be:  why are the carriers moving into the hostile sea zone during the combat movement phase?  The kamikazes can only be used during that phase.  So use the aircraft during combat, then during the non-combat movement phase, move the carriers into the zone.  Carriers should rarely, if ever, be victim of kamikaze attacks in this game.

    Sometimes carriers are needed to soak hits. You don’t have to continuously maintain a landing spot and can remove a valid landing spot in this way, as well as by Kamikazes.

    True but why would the other guy then use his kamis on your carriers if there are better targets available?
    I normaly use them on cruisers-destroyers as it removes dice from my opponent as well as hits.
    The less dice the other guy throws the less hits he can have.

    Excellent SH, a reason to use up Kamis on CV’s could be if Japan sees the Allied player is coming with roll waves after you and you would like to prevent UK Pac or Anzak to use them as a landingspot. Other then that i also would choose mainly CRs and DDs as Targets.

    True, but if they come in like that they cannot use the CV as extra soaks, and if you dont want to soak damage on a CV its very unwise to use it in the attack move of a kami zone to begin with. If your opponent moves the CV in the attack move into a kami zone, he either intends to take hits(big naval battle ), forgot about the kami zone, or is playing stupid.

    A simple destroyer also stops Bombardments so using kami only for that sounds really stupid.



  • Remember that Japan chooses the targets for their Kams so they might just ignore your carriers and go for your battleships and cruisers if they see an invasion coming.


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