I agree with Taamvan but in one game I did build an airbase in Shan State later in the game which helped to crush Japan. As it happened, Axis won in Europe in that game, rather narrowly. I think SZ37 had the USN parked in it, just with assistance from the UK.
Save Italy Strategy
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Thanks for the breakdown. I said I liked your moves. I have just started a game as Axis and would have tried your ideas if I had been able, as my Allied opponent is better than me. Would have liked to see how he would have reacted to it.
I tried to think like he would, but maybe he would have been defensive. Suppose I can only hope taking down England gives Russia space and life. -
I like sinking sz 97. it is a good move.
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I’m a strong believer in saving Italy strategies. I still need to find a good one tho’
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I think both you and I believe(and hope) in a second Roman Empire, Noll.
I always cry inside when inevitably, our one hope, the Navy is sunk. -
The obvious disadvantage of this strategy is that attacks on Soviets are made I3 / G4 instead of a G2 or I2 / G3. Since Italy did not handle Greece / Southern Europe, it will have a decent can opening force on the Eastern Front sufficient to take any territory (unless the russians make a stand) and having the Germans land their significant air force to prevent a counterattack. If there are no attractive targets on G4 (e.g, Russian Navy, bordering territories), then I believe Germany can reinforce the Russian territory(ies) captured in I3 (e.g., both Eastern Poland and Baltic States) without a declaration of war (thus collecting 5 IPC again?)
I like this though because the German airforce should be quite strong and a late declaration of war to Russia gives the 5 extra IPC to Germany multiple times, prevents Russia to do the middle east trick and prevents Russia from getting its other war NO.
If the German stack lead by repeated robust Italian can openers on an instoppable on it’s march to Moscow, then we should have this:
G4 (German stack in Baltic States with war on or not, if at War consider taking Karelia / Vyborg) - On R4, Russians need to abandon Leningrad (retreat to Archangel or total consolidation in Belarus or make a stand there)
On I4, Italians open belarus or take Leningrad.
On G5, Germans attack Belarus to reduce russian stack with superior firepower (and retreat if counterattack threat looms) or reinforce Italian belarus conquest.
On I5, assuming Russians fell back, Italians Open Smolensk
On G6, Germans reinforce Smolensk. (throughout this process, watch for ways to strat bomb russia with benefit of strong air force).
on G7 or G8 decisive attack on Moscow.
Waiting a bit to attack the Russians and save Italians troops for the can opening will lead to larger battles on the russian front or a planned retreat (which is good for Germany). This would create steady momentum for Germany (who can fight on their own terms, preserve their forces) and gradually weaken the Soviet union. If the outcome of the decisive battle in Moscow is in doubt, then just “go around it” and let germany create a steady flow of infantries and planes that slowly strangles the soviets while leaving options open on the Eastern front (e.g., strategic bombing, mechanized strikes supported by air force). This further complicates the US’s role to strike Italy.
The Italian buy on I1 was not determined, but I now think that 1 tank / 1 mech in Northern Italy is the right choice to the condition that at least 2 German fighters land in South Italy (better yet 3) to preserve some Italian air power (leaving tac bombers to cover Tobruk)
So because of this, I would adjust my first turn to this (shifting one bomber and one tac from 111, allowing for extra German fighters to land in South Italy instead of Tobruk). By taking the losses in SZ 97, this allows the German to inject 20 or 30 IPC in Italy’s economy and put the UK in further trouble. If UK chickens out, this German airforce (2 - 3 fighets and 1 tac in south italy + 2 Tacs in Tobruk), ensures that the UK leaves the med.
Build 2 fighters and 1 destroyer, Save 2
Take 106 with 2 subs (117 / 118) (87% win)
Take 91 with 2 subs (103/ 108) (85% win)
Attack 111 (BB, DD, CA) with 1 sub (124), 1 fighter (Norway), 1 fighter (Holland), 1 tac (Western Germany) 2 strat (Germany) 85% with scramble, 98% without
Attack southern France with 1 armor (Great Southern Germany), 1 tac (Germany) and 2 mech (Great Southern Germany) - 98% win
Take France Turn 1 (7 infantry, 2 mec, 3 artillery, 5 tanks) 97% win
Attack French Fleet with 2 fighters (Western Germany), 2 Tac (West Germany) (99%) 2 Tacs contnue to tobruk and one or 2 fighters land in south italy
Take Bulgaria with 1 infrantry from Romania / Finland with 1 infrantry from Norway
Take Yugoslavia (3 tanks, 6 infantry with 3 from great southern germany, 1 from romania, 2 from slovakia, 2 artillery from great southern Germany), 1 tac from Poland, 1 fighter from Slovakia (1 fighter continues to South Italy, Tac Continues to South Italy) -
I like the sound of it. Does all hang on taking Moscow of course and US not retaking France if Egypt looks too hard.
Have you played it or only planned it? -
should totally test it out on tripple A
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@wittman:
I like the sound of it. Does all hang on taking Moscow of course and US not retaking France if Egypt looks too hard.
Have you played it or only planned it?I unfortunately don’t have enough time to play this game online, my time would be getting sucked into this too much. I’m prepping for my next in person game. I spend some time reading this forum and played the global version IRL a few times.
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Same. Have a young daughter and my own restaurant, so play a few times a year with friends who live and work in different cities. Still plan and dream of changing the order of things. I love history. Nice talking.
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On US re-taking France:
As long as Italy can balance out UK and send a couple Mech Infantry per turn in Russia, I don’t think the US would be that big of a deal in terms of taking France and keeping it. The supply line is fairly involved for the US and Germany should have enough IPCs / air force to hold out (in theory, in practice the air force can only be at one place at once). What I’m the most worried about is Italy not faring as well as expected and significant early US airforce knocking off fleets in the med to give UK some breather and / or altering the balance in Russia in later turns.
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I’ve given up on SZ 97, PERIOD. Even if Germany does not land a plane to scramble, I’d lose that fight. I could have 98% odds in my favor, and lose that battle, so I dont fight it anymore.
As for saving Italy - Sea Lion does that every time. I’ve never lost Italy after a sea lion SUCCESS (defined as both taking England and having enough left over to repush the Russians out again.) I don’t think in 3.9 you can succeed in Sea Lion anymore. Personal feeling.
Now, to save Italy, I think Japan has to pull America into the Pacific. It’s probably the only way. W/O America, Germany can take on Russia, keep the British happy and defend Italy if necessary (those planes can literally defend a lot of territory, and put massive threat out if you do it right.)
One thing I’ve done is: If America’;s buying fleet in the Atlantic, build transports in SZ 6 and threaten to take Midway, Wake, Hawaii and Alaska (or Aluetians.) It’s better than the DEI, I feel. Not financially (17 for Japan vs 24 for Japan in income differential) but because it puts America in a vice. That’s if Americas going fleet heavy in the Atlantic anyway.
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do people seriously liberate france?
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H Jen. If US skulks by OZ Turn 2 and therefore threatens SE Asia or Carolines, are you still happy to look East as Japan? I can’t.
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@Cmdr:
I’ve given up on SZ 97, PERIOD. Even if Germany does not land a plane to scramble, I’d lose that fight. I could have 98% odds in my favor, and lose that battle, so I dont fight it anymore.
As for saving Italy - Sea Lion does that every time. I’ve never lost Italy after a sea lion SUCCESS (defined as both taking England and having enough left over to repush the Russians out again.) I don’t think in 3.9 you can succeed in Sea Lion anymore. Personal feeling.
Now, to save Italy, I think Japan has to pull America into the Pacific. It’s probably the only way.  W/O America, Germany can take on Russia, keep the British happy and defend Italy if necessary (those planes can literally defend a lot of territory, and put massive threat out if you do it right.)
One thing I’ve done is: If America’;s buying fleet in the Atlantic, build transports in SZ 6 and threaten to take Midway, Wake, Hawaii and Alaska (or Aluetians.) It’s better than the DEI, I feel. Not financially (17 for Japan vs 24 for Japan in income differential) but because it puts America in a vice. That’s if Americas going fleet heavy in the Atlantic anyway.
A threat of victory in the Pacific (Japan having taken DEI, Phillipines, Calcultta, Hong Kong) around J5 should force the US to get involved pretty seriously…
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@Cow:
do people seriously liberate france?
I think it’s probably easier to prevent an Axis victory with conquering Italy or Egypt.
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What do you guys think of this?
round 1:
Germany takes south France, clears french ships and lands planes in Rome (also z110, z91, z106, Paris, Yugo).
Japan builds airbase in Kwangsi and lands bombers there after taking Yunnan.
Italy builds nothing and takes Greece, activates Bulgaria.round 2:
Germany builds 3 subs, sinks UK fleet.
Japan declares war on Russia and flies bombers to Greece, swim in to Siberia.
Italy builds transports.round 3:
Germany and Japan clear med.
Italy takes Egypt (with units from Italy not the reinforcements in Greece), declares war on Russia and walk in to East PolandRussia is at war on the Pacific side turn 2 but not in Europe until round 4, so they can’t attack Iraq til turn 5. On turn 4 Italy may take Transjordan and activate Iraq with tanks, then Germany lands a fighter or 2 from Rome.
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@Cow:
do people seriously liberate france?
I think it’s probably easier to prevent an Axis victory with conquering Italy or Egypt.
Only if it’s UK / USSR that conquered them.
I’ve seen too many instances of America going heavy in the Atlantic only to see Japan win in the Pacific. However, there are many instances of America virtually ignoring the Atlantic and the allies winning.
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Found that the tacs to Tobruk were not legal and ended up fine tuning these moves a bit.
The fleet left in 112 needs a bit more protection in case the 91 cruiser survives, justifies spending 20 IPCs on subs and destroyers. Would like to buy a 3rd bomber to chase English fleet down Gibraltar, but seems too risky.
I’m hoping these moves will help the Italians significantly.
Build 2 subs, 1 destroyer and 1 fighter
Take 106 with 2 subs (117 / 103) (87% win)
Take 91 with 1 subs (108) (50% win)
Attack 111 (BB, DD, CA) with 2 sub (124/118), 1 fighter (Norway), 1 fighter (Holland), 1 tac (Western Germany) 2 strat (Germany) 97% with scramble, 99% without scramble (lose 2 subs or 1 sub / 1 fighter)
Attack southern France with 1 armor (Great Southern Germany), 1 tac (Germany) and 2 mech (Great Southern Germany) - 98% win
Take France Turn 1 (7 infantry, 2 mec, 3 artillery, 5 tanks) 97% win
Attack French Fleet with 2 fighters (Western Germany), 2 Tac (West Germany) (99%) 1 or 2 Tacs contnue to south Italy and 2 fighters land in south italy
Take Bulgaria with 1 infrantry from Romania / Finland with 1 infrantry from Norway
Take Yugoslavia (3 tanks, 6 infantry with 3 from great southern germany, 1 from romania, 2 from slovakia, 2 artillery from great southern Germany), 1 tac from Poland, 1 fighter from Slovakia (1 fighter continues to Tobruk, Tac Continues to South Italy) -
I pretty much never go 110. I have to commit so much to outlasting the scramble that it seems better to increase my odds everywhere else.
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@ Omega:
The Fighters from Western Germany can’t get to Tobruk after hitting the French fleet in 93 can they ??
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