@imperious-leader
Thank you oh glorious leader!
Loading Transports in Hostile Seazones
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@Cernel said in A&A Global 1940: Amphibious Assaults, Bridging, and Sea Zones that Start the Turn with Hostile Ships:
Thank you very much for the reply. It is very informative and very much in-line with the type of discussion I had hoped to would happen on the topic.
The main reason why I believe so is given by the fact that, by the rules, enemy ships have the ability to impede you offloading into a territory, from the sea zone they are inside. The dynamic by which this happens can only be pictured as these ships interposing themselves between your transports and the coastline where you intend to offload. Therefore, it would make no sense that, instead, they are unable to interpose themselves between your transports and the coastline where you intend to load. If you need to destroy all enemy ships before offloading to a coastline, it makes the only sense that you need to destroy all enemy ships before loading from a coastline, at least in the case in which the transports are moving into the sea zone (thus being blocked by the enemy ships, from moving any further).
I agree, that would be the dynamic for transports entering the sea zone from outside, and then attempting to bridge units across. The defending units could attempt to impede the load, or impede the unload. Tactically speaking impeding the unload might be superior since you are closer to your coast and can have the support of your shore batteries, and you are sinking transports with cargo, which is always more valuable than sinking empty transports. Also, impeding the unload action seems much more like “defending” your territory from incursion, and attempting to impede the load by sailing away from the coast you’re supposed to be defending to an enemy coast to attack an enemy port seems more like an “attack” or preemptive strike than defending. When it’s not your turn, you’re units are supposed to be “defending”, not “attacking”.
But nonetheless, the attacking units are performing a maneuver that is legal in the absence of the defender’s presence: arrive in the sea zone, load troops, unload troops on the enemy shore, and fight an amphibious assault. The fact that there are defending warships in the sea zone should just mean you have to destroy them first before you can proceed with the maneuver. However, due to the way the rules work for every game other than classic, this is not allowed.
Now, if the transports started in the sea zone at the start of the turn along with warship support, and the enemy launched a new fleet into the sea zone during their mobilize phase, it would seem impossible for the defending ships to impede the loading of the transports. The transports were already there at the start of the turn and thus are presumably already docked and ready to load and the rest of the fleet is on patrol nearby to keep them safe. It seems strange that “defending” enemy surface warships could have any say at all about what transports can load from the sea zone they start their turn in. Attacking an enemy port during preparations for an amphibious assault in an attempt to disrupt the loading of the transports is an attack action. Even say they did attack and try to prevent the load, and get destroyed, then the amphibious assault operation just proceeds and now the attacking surface warships are now also free to bombard when they arrive at the enemy coast since there’s nothing left for them to engage at that point.
@jchamlin I believe you are correct here for every strategic games since Revised LHTR (included). However, I believe that Europe, Pacific and Revised OOB (non-LHTR) reduce this to 2 turns only, as, on turn 1, you can just leave the empty transports in the sea zone, have them taking part in the sea battle and, then, load units onto them (so they will start turn 2 in the same sea zone, but with the units already on board).
Sorry for being new, but I’m not sure about all the acronyms for the various versions of the rules. I think OOB is Out of the Box (i.e. rules as written), and LHTR is Larry Harris Tournament Rules. So, you’re saying there’s a Revised OOB ruleset that allows transports to participate in both the combat and non-combat phases, by first “participating” in the sea battle (not that they do much) and then still participating in non-combat by loading units? Can the transports also move during non-combat after loading, and also unload, or can they just be loaded? Can you point me to where this revised rule is please (link to a forum thread, a rulebook page, an official errata/FAQ, etc)? I can’t seem to find it. The only thing I’ve found is the rule that says all ships present in the sea zone must participate in the battle.
Finally, @Krieghund, even though it doesn’t really matter, as “bridging” is merely flavour text, can we clarify it? @jchamlin clearly believes that moving into a sea zone and, then, loading and offloading units without moving any further is bridging. My understanding, instead, is that no bridging is happening during such sequence of actions, as bridging is, instead, when you load and offload units during the same turn while the transports doesn’t move at all, during the phase in which it is bridging (thus it is also not moving during the whole turn). So, is bridging whatever situation in which you load and offload without moving between loading an offloading (as @jchamlin believes) or is bridging only the situation in which you load and offload without moving the transport at all, during the whole phase (as I believe)?
Looks like @Krieghund already answered:
So I would say that the nature of the loading and offloading is what defines bridging, not whether or not the transport moves first.
So it looks like my interpretation is correct, that bridging is when you load and offload in the same sea zone. It doesn’t matter if the transport moves first. It only matters that it doesn’t move (i.e. doesn’t change sea zones) between the load and the unload actions.
I think the rules of both A&A Classic and A&A Europe 1942 that describe bridging support this conclusion. In A&A Classic the rulebook reads:
A transport can pick up cargo, move 1 or 2 sea zones, and unload the cargo all in the same move. THE CARGO CAN BE PICKED UP BEFORE, DURING OR AFTER THE TRANSPORT MOVES. … ONCE A TRANSPORT UNLOADS, HOWEVER, ITS MOVE IS OVER!
The next paragraph then goes on to describe bridging. Since all of the rules examples of using transports up until this point in the rulebook had them picking up cargo and moving 1 or 2 sea zones (or picking up, moving 1, picking up more, and moving again, and then dropping off), it wasn’t clear whether or not transports had to move in between picking up cargo and dropping it off. So, thus, the bridging rule was introduced.
Bridging: A transport can even load and unload units without moving from the sea zone it is in by “bridging”.
Note, it doesn’t say without moving at all. It says load and unload units without moving from the sea zone it is in. It could be more clearly written that bridging is when you load units and then offload them in another territory from the same sea zone where you loaded the units (i.e. a load and unload that does not require the transport to move to a different sea zone).
And A&A Europe 1940 Second Edition rulebook has this wording:
A transport can load and offload units without moving from the friendly sea zone it’s in (this is known as“bridging”). Each such transport is still limited to its cargo capacity. It can offload in only one territory, and once it offloads, it can’t move, load, or offload again that turn.
It’s pretty clear here that the phrase “can’t move, load, or offload again” means “can’t move again, can’t load again, can’t offload again”. Can’t move again clearly implies that the transport could have moved before bridging.
And finally, I want to address this:
even though it doesn’t really matter, as “bridging” is merely flavour text
Do we have an official statement from Larry Harris that bridging and the rulebook text around it is “merely flavour text”?
For example, the case of bridging into an amphibious assault when the transports start their turn in the sea zone from which they wish to perform the amphibious assault, do we know if it was Larry’s intent to really allow the purchase and mobilization of a single destroyer in that sea zone to be able to prevent the assault? If there’s an official reference to a comment from Larry saying so, I’d really like to read it. Otherwise, I think it would be good if Larry would chime in on this thread and provide us some context of why this is the case (i.e. what’s the purpose of the rule, either historically/factually, or is it for game balance reasons, or is this just an unintended side-effect of the rule that transports can’t load or unload from a hostile sea zone that he didn’t foresee)?
-J.C.
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@jchamlin said in A&A Global 1940: Amphibious Assaults, Bridging, and Sea Zones that Start the Turn with Hostile Ships:
And finally, I want to address this:
even though it doesn’t really matter, as “bridging” is merely flavour text
Do we have an official statement from Larry Harris that bridging and the rulebook text around it is “merely flavour text”?
For example, the case of bridging into an amphibious assault when the transports start their turn in the sea zone from which they wish to perform the amphibious assault, do we know if it was Larry’s intent to really allow the purchase and mobilization of a single destroyer in that sea zone to be able to prevent the assault? If there’s an official reference to a comment from Larry saying so, I’d really like to read it. Otherwise, I think it would be good if Larry would chime in on this thread and provide us some context of why this is the case (i.e. what’s the purpose of the rule, either historically/factually, or is it for game balance reasons, or is this just an unintended side-effect of the rule that transports can’t load or unload from a hostile sea zone that he didn’t foresee)?
I have already addressed this. There is no need for clarification from Larry regarding Global 1940, as the rules speak for themselves. Loading in a hostile sea zone is forbidden, and the bridging rule does nothing to override this. Furthermore, the rules for sea units starting their turn in a hostile sea zone on page 13 of the Europe Rulebook make no mention of an exception for transports loading under such conditions, stating that they must leave the zone, load, and return in order to perform an amphibious assault there. Additional proof can be found in the rules for declaring war, on page 11 of the Europe Rulebook:
During your Combat Move phase in which you entered into a state of war, your transports that are already in sea zones that have just become hostile may be loaded in those sea zones (but not in other hostile sea zones). In effect, transports may be loaded in their initial sea zones for amphibious assaults before war is declared, while the sea zone is still friendly.
This is an exception for loading in an already-occupied hostile sea zone when declaring war, indicating that it is not normally possible.
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@jchamlin We shouldn’t go too much off topic, so I’ll try to answer concisely here, and just because you asked for it. Hopefully @Krieghund will take care to correct me if I’m giving wrong information.
@jchamlin said in A&A Global 1940: Amphibious Assaults, Bridging, and Sea Zones that Start the Turn with Hostile Ships:
@jchamlin I believe you are correct here for every strategic games since Revised LHTR (included). However, I believe that Europe, Pacific and Revised OOB (non-LHTR) reduce this to 2 turns only, as, on turn 1, you can just leave the empty transports in the sea zone, have them taking part in the sea battle and, then, load units onto them (so they will start turn 2 in the same sea zone, but with the units already on board).
Sorry for being new, but I’m not sure about all the acronyms for the various versions of the rules. I think OOB is Out of the Box (i.e. rules as written),
Literally, yes, but I believe that by OOB it is meant also to comprise every official information without the box, that are part of the same rules set as the one included in the game, especially “errata”, giving them priority over every information within the box (so it’s not like OOB means you just look at what’s in the box and disregard everything else). Moreover, it also comprises whatever still valid information given by the original author or any person appointed directly or indirectly by him for giving official answers. Anyways, I believe here this matter is irrelevant, as the original rulebook is clear enough, on the rules at hand.
and LHTR is Larry Harris Tournament Rules.
Of course, and, obviously, the latest version of it if not differently specified.
So, you’re saying there’s a Revised OOB ruleset that allows transports to participate in both the combat and non-combat phases, by first “participating” in the sea battle (not that they do much) and then still participating in non-combat by loading units?
Differently from bridging, loading (only) doesn’t count as a movement for the transport. So, technically, the transport is not moving during Non-Combat, if it only loads. Rather than allowing this, the rules set is not disallowing it (while LHTR and later do). However, the rules set also specifically states that a transport that Combat moved or took part in battle can load, but cannot bridge, on the subsequent Non-Combat move phase, as long as it didn’t offload, during the turn. The only two exceptions to this are if the transport offloaded or retreated.
Can the transports also move during non-combat after loading,
No (that’s the reason why it can load but it cannot bridge, since bridging counts as moving).
and also unload, or can they just be loaded?
It can load or offload, but not both (because it cannot bridge), if it hasn’t offloaded anything. If it offloaded one or more units (during Combat Move or Conduct Combat), it cannot load and it is restricted offloading into the same territory as before (the offloading can only happen if you started your turn with 2 units already on board and offloaded only 1 during Combat Move or Conduct Combat).
Can you point me to where this revised rule is please (link to a forum thread, a rulebook page, an official errata/FAQ, etc)? I can’t seem to find it. The only thing I’ve found is the rule that says all ships present in the sea zone must participate in the battle.
As I said, the fact that you can load, after having taken part in Conduct Combat without retreating from a battle and without offloading, is primarily the consequence of the fact that there are no rules that say you cannot (loading without offloading is not a movement for the transport).
This is the Revised OOB rules set:
https://www.axisandallies.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Axis-Allies-Revised.pdfOn page 21 you can find the (unnecessary) clarification I mentioned:
Transports that have been in combat may either load or offload (not both) during this phase, but not if they have retreated from combat this turn.
As I said, even if the text quoted above would be absent from the rulebook I linked, you could still do that, since the rules set is not forbidding you to do it (and it is already forbidding you to do “both”, as that would be bridging, that counts as moving, which is not possible after having been in combat).
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@Cernel said in A&A Global 1940: Amphibious Assaults, Bridging, and Sea Zones that Start the Turn with Hostile Ships:
So, you’re saying the Global A&A Second edition rules allow transports to participate in both the combat and non-combat phases, by first “participating” in the sea battle (not that they do much) and then still participating in non-combat by loading units?
Differently from bridging, loading (only) doesn’t count as a movement for the transport. So, technically, the transport is not moving during Non-Combat, if it only loads. Rather than allowing this, the rules set is not disallowing it (while LHTR and later do). However, the rules set also specifically states that a transport that Combat moved or took part in battle can load, but cannot bridge, on the subsequent Non-Combat move phase, as long as it didn’t offload, during the turn. The only two exceptions to this are if the transport offloaded or retreated.
It can load or offload, but not both (because it cannot bridge), if it hasn’t offloaded anything. If it offloaded one or more units (during Combat Move or Conduct Combat), it cannot load and it is restricted offloading into the same territory as before (the offloading can only happen if you started your turn with 2 units already on board and offloaded only 1 during Combat Move or Conduct Combat).
Can you point me to where this rule is please (link to a forum thread, a rulebook page, an official errata/FAQ, etc)? I can’t seem to find it. The only thing I’ve found is the rule that says all ships present in the sea zone must participate in the battle.
As I said, the fact that you can load, after having taken part in Conduct Combat without retreating from a battle and without offloading, is primarily the consequence of the fact that there are no rules that say you cannot (loading without offloading is not a movement for the transport).
This is the Revised OOB rules set:
https://www.axisandallies.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Axis-Allies-Revised.pdfOn page 21 you can find the (unnecessary) clarification I mentioned:
Transports that have been in combat may either load or offload (not both) during this phase, but not if they have retreated from combat this turn.
As I said, even if the text quoted above would be absent from the rulebook I linked, you could still do that, since the rules set is not forbidding you to do it (and it is already forbidding you to do “both”, as that would be bridging, that counts as moving, which is not possible after having been in combat).
We’re playing A&A Global using the second edition rules (from the books), not revised OOB. This statement doesn’t appear in the second edition rulebooks for either Europe or Pacific And this ruling is being challenged by one of the players using this part of the rules:
Page 22 of the A&A Pacific 1940 Second Edition Rulebook says:
Transports can move to friendly coastal territories and load or offload cargo, unless they loaded, moved, offloaded, or were involved in combat during the Combat Move or Conduct Combat phase.
So, basically, the ruling challenge is that this sentence means that transports cannot do any of those things if they were involved in combat.
Can you help point me to the relevant parts of the A&A Pacific 1940 or A&A Europe 1940 Second Edition rulebooks which would clarify that you can load or unload, but not both, and not move, if the transport was involved in combat that turn?
Thanks in advance!
-J.C.
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@jchamlin said in A&A Global 1940: Amphibious Assaults, Bridging, and Sea Zones that Start the Turn with Hostile Ships:
Page 22 of the A&A Pacific 1940 Second Edition Rulebook says:
Transports can move to friendly coastal territories and load or offload cargo, unless they loaded, moved, offloaded, or were involved in combat during the Combat Move or Conduct Combat phase.
So, basically, the ruling challenge is that this sentence means that transports cannot do any of those things if they were involved in combat.
Can you help point me to the relevant parts of the A&A Pacific 1940 or A&A Europe 1940 Second Edition rulebooks which would clarify that you can load or unload, but not both, and not move, if the transport was involved in combat that turn?
Thanks in advance!
-J.C.
You cannot. From Revised LHTR onwards, rules like those you quoted disallow transports that have been in combat from loading and from offloading. I was merely pointing out that is not the case “since classic”, as you said, but rather since Revised LHTR. This is what I said:
@Cernel said in A&A Global 1940: Amphibious Assaults, Bridging, and Sea Zones that Start the Turn with Hostile Ships:
Assuming you find yourself in this situation in any version of A&A since classic with a fleet sitting in a hostile sea zone (due to the defender building a destroyer to block), with empty transports, and units available to be picked up from that sea zone for an amphibious assault but cannot: it will take you THREE TURNS before you can conduct an amphibious assault (assuming you don’t get allied help to destroy the blocker). Turn 1: transports flee empty before combat, some portion of the fleet remains to kill the destroyer built to block (as stated earlier in this thread, they must flee, if they stay they are forced to are participate in the sea zone combat and this cannot be loaded during non-combat).
Turn 2: kill the second destroyer built to block, non-combat the transports back in and load them
Turn 3: conduct the amphibious assault@jchamlin I believe you are correct here for every strategic games since Revised LHTR (included). However, I believe that Europe, Pacific and Revised OOB (non-LHTR) reduce this to 2 turns only, as, on turn 1, you can just leave the empty transports in the sea zone, have them taking part in the sea battle and, then, load units onto them (so they will start turn 2 in the same sea zone, but with the units already on board).
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@Cernel said in A&A Global 1940: Amphibious Assaults, Bridging, and Sea Zones that Start the Turn with Hostile Ships:
@jchamlin said in A&A Global 1940: Amphibious Assaults, Bridging, and Sea Zones that Start the Turn with Hostile Ships:
Page 22 of the A&A Pacific 1940 Second Edition Rulebook says:
Transports can move to friendly coastal territories and load or offload cargo, unless they loaded, moved, offloaded, or were involved in combat during the Combat Move or Conduct Combat phase.
So, basically, the ruling challenge is that this sentence means that transports cannot do any of those things if they were involved in combat.
Can you help point me to the relevant parts of the A&A Pacific 1940 or A&A Europe 1940 Second Edition rulebooks which would clarify that you can load or unload, but not both, and not move, if the transport was involved in combat that turn?
Thanks in advance!
-J.C.
You cannot. From Revised LHTR onwards, rules like those you quoted disallow transports that have been in combat from loading and from offloading. I was merely pointing out that is not the case “since classic”, as you said, but rather since Revised LHTR. This is what I said:
@Cernel said in A&A Global 1940: Amphibious Assaults, Bridging, and Sea Zones that Start the Turn with Hostile Ships:
Assuming you find yourself in this situation in any version of A&A since classic with a fleet sitting in a hostile sea zone (due to the defender building a destroyer to block), with empty transports, and units available to be picked up from that sea zone for an amphibious assault but cannot: it will take you THREE TURNS before you can conduct an amphibious assault (assuming you don’t get allied help to destroy the blocker). Turn 1: transports flee empty before combat, some portion of the fleet remains to kill the destroyer built to block (as stated earlier in this thread, they must flee, if they stay they are forced to are participate in the sea zone combat and this cannot be loaded during non-combat).
Turn 2: kill the second destroyer built to block, non-combat the transports back in and load them
Turn 3: conduct the amphibious assault@jchamlin I believe you are correct here for every strategic games since Revised LHTR (included). However, I believe that Europe, Pacific and Revised OOB (non-LHTR) reduce this to 2 turns only, as, on turn 1, you can just leave the empty transports in the sea zone, have them taking part in the sea battle and, then, load units onto them (so they will start turn 2 in the same sea zone, but with the units already on board).
You said:
Europe, Pacific and Revised OOB (non-LHTR) reduce this to 2 turns only.
Now I’m confused.
What did you mean Europe, Pacific, and Revised (non-LHTR) reduce this to two turns only? Did you mean A&A Europe 1940 Second Edition, and A&A Pacific 1940 Second Edition, as well as Revised (blue book)?
We’re playing A&A Global using the A&A Pacific 1940 Second Edition and and A&A Europe 1940 Second Edition rulebooks, not LHTR or Revised (Blue Book). So, is this allowed? If not, what did you mean when you said Europe, Pacific?
-J.C.
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@jchamlin No. “Europe” and “Pacific” are not “Europe 1940” and “Pacific 1940”.
I guess I should have clarified I wasn’t talking about the 1940 ones. I understand only now this was the disconnect.
Links:
https://www.axisandallies.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Axis-Allies-Europe-1999.pdf
https://www.axisandallies.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Axis-Allies-Pacific.pdf -
This is a really interesting discussion! I dug out my old A&A Classic Second Edition rule book and I’ve been looking through it. Like the OP, I’ve been playing A&A since the original game. I started a long explanation with citations, but I’m not sure anyone wants to read it. So the Cole’s notes version is this:
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in original A&A, a unit could never begin its turn in an enemy-occupied or enemy-controlled (hostile) territory or sea zone.
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the combat part of the action sequence is “Combat Movement”, and the section of the rules is littered with detail about how to move your units into combat. It’s a fundamental concept, particularly in a new game being introduced to the public: first you move your units to create the combat, and then later you would actually resolve (roll) the combat.
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for transports, the explanation starts out by saying how transports move. they can move 1 or 2 spaces, pick up, drop, and the rules show many examples.
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after this, it describes “bridging”. To me, this section is redundant unless it’s emphasizing that combat loading and unloading doesn’t require the transport to move at all. Otherwise, it’s covered under the preceding paragraph where it says that cargo can be picked up before, during, or after the transport moves. The explanation offered (bridging can be after a transport moves) is already covered - cargo can be picked up after a transport moves.
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So what happens when a transport moves into an enemy-occupied sea zone? It must conduct combat. It says this clearly in the rules, even though it doesn’t have an attack value. If it survives and has cargo, it can unload. And under battleships it once again says that in an amphibious assault, for an adjacent enemy-occupied sea zone, combat must ensue and the enemy units must be defeated before transports can unload units. It doesn’t say that transports can then unload or load and unload.
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It says the same thing in the transports section on how they fight. The rules say, for amphibious assaults, that cargo-laden transports must engage in combat before the amphibious assault can occur if the adjacent sea zone is enemy-occupied. After combat, it says that the transport can unload assaulting land units if the sea zone is cleared. Notably, it doesn’t also say it can load and unload. And if the sea zone isn’t cleared, you must retreat.
So to me, it’s clear that bridging was intended to just cover the fact that a transport is the only unit in the game that can be involved in the combat movement phase without actually moving (again, other than anti-aircraft guns). And it’s also clear that you could only load in a friendly sea zone, since the very moment you enter an enemy-controlled sea zone, you have to conduct combat, and then the only options for the transport are either a) retreat, or b) unload.
Regarding the evolution of the game, there have been other changes to movement related to hostile sea zones: subs can move through hostile sea zones, or even end their turn in hostile sea zones. And you can build in a sea zone containing enemy naval units and make it a hostile sea zone. Interestingly, I couldn’t find the notion of a “hostile sea zone” in the A&A Classic Second Edition rules because, to me, the concept didn’t exist. A territory or sea-zone was either friendly-occupied, friendly-controlled, enemy-occupied, or enemy-controlled. I think the notion of a hostile sea zone emerged because sea zones aren’t really ‘controlled’ if they’re empty, and, as said earlier, in the original game there was no allowance for units of opposing sides to end a turn in the same sea zone or territory. Once this could happen, we needed a way to characterize these sea zones, and calling them hostile made the most sense.
And as it was already pointed out, the Global 1940 exception for allowing transports to load on the turn that war is declared is evidence that, in any other case, this move is not allowed.
To end, I’ll add that i also think it’s odd that a single dd can disrupt an amphibious assault. Odd, but not unfair, illogical, or contrary to the original spirit of the game. So to me, the original rules and those that follow are pretty consistent about bridging, and when and how transports load units for amphibious assaults.
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So, when I was putting the rules back last night, I discovered another document: Rules Clarifications from General M. Bradley, Supreme GameMaster. It’s dated 1991; the game manual was dated 1986. Note that the rules are second edition and says that both transport and amphibious assault rules have changed (presumably since the first edition). So it’s possible that the OP was using First edition rules? To be honest I’ve never seen those, although now I’m curious…
So in the rules clarifications, there’s no specific clarity on whether a transport can load in a hostile or enemy-occupied sea zone. But it does say that bridging is as the OP said: you can bridge with a transport after it moves. So I was wrong on that front.
But, it does say again that for an amphibious assault the zone must be cleared before a transport can unload units. It doesn’t say or load and then unload units.
There does seem to be some evolution of thought from the 2nd edition rules to the rules clarification. In the 2nd edition rules, there is an example of units moving from Japan to Manchuria and the transport could do so “without ever leaving the sea zone”, which suggests that it would have started the move there, because in the paragraph before, it states in bold caps that a transport’s move is over once it unloads. But then in the clarification, it says that the transport can move before bridging.
Also, in the 2nd edition rules, under the section “how they fight”, for amphibious assaults, it says:
“If you are launching such an attack and the sea zone adjacent to the target area is enemy-occupied, then your naval force including your cargo-laden transports must engage in in combat before the amphibious assault can occur”.
To me this suggests that the transports had to have been loaded prior to the battle, not after, and such a move has to be done in a friendly sea zone, not an enemy-occupied one.
Anyways, hope I’m not putting anyone to sleep - I just find this issue really interesting!
L
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Can we continue to play now ? :confounded: :confounded: :confounded: :confounded:
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@freh said in A&A Global 1940: Amphibious Assaults, Bridging, and Sea Zones that Start the Turn with Hostile Ships:
Also, in the 2nd edition rules, under the section “how they fight”, for amphibious assaults, it says:
“If you are launching such an attack and the sea zone adjacent to the target area is enemy-occupied, then your naval force including your cargo-laden transports must engage in in combat before the amphibious assault can occur”.
To me this suggests that the transports had to have been loaded prior to the battle, not after, and such a move has to be done in a friendly sea zone, not an enemy-occupied one.
The matter at hand is not if a transport can make combat, then bridge (that is make combat, then load, then offload). This has been officially clarified as not allowed (and, in my opinion, it has always been fairly clear it is impossible).
The question is if a transport that started its turn into or just moved into a hostile sea zone can load, then make combat, then offload.
In my opinion, missing a statement that units cannot load in hostile sea zones, this should be allowed for units that have done nothing (units starting in hostile sea zones (which can happen with optional rules or under the 3rd Edition rules)). Therefore, the matter left would be whether or not a sea unit that is blocked by enemy units from moving any more is also blocked from loading.
We are waiting for Larry… I find it quite amazing that, after a quarter of a century, and how many games played, in which this would have been relevant, this matter is yet to be sorted out.
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OK, I have an official answer. It was never Larry’s intention that transports in Classic should be able to load in a hostile sea zone, but the rules as written do not reflect that intention. However, he’s not going to revise an FAQ for a game that’s been around for as long as Classic has and is now out of print for something this minor.
The bottom line is that in Classic, per the rules, you can load transports in a hostile sea zone during combat movement, though this was not intended. This ruling does not apply to any other A&A game besides Classic.
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