May I ask how that plays out? Has that meant Italy gets Cairo early while UK pressures Germany?
Most efficient Axis Turn 1 for Sea Lion option
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Interesting play.
My thing these days is being prepared for Sea Lion, but if UK is conservative, or gets a lot of breaks on the dice on G1 I can skip it without having committed resources though reading yours I realize I missed a VERY necessary destroyer purchase G3 to make certain Russia’s sub can’t be a PIA on G4 or G5.
Note that one reason I make the moves I do when I do end up doing Sea Lion is so that Russia can invade Finland/Norway and anything on the coast of the Baltic can be retaken G5. Germany/Italy move to Romania to block Russia there so they stay up North where all the German transports can hit all at once from sz112. So Russia can earn some extra, but Germany can hopefully wipe out some of their forward units rather than swinging down to the Med.
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Did he really decline to repair the factory in London or just the airbase? Was it a scramble or not g1?
No repair seems a bit of a blunder. Not surprised you won without UK getting into your planes.
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@simon33 At that point, he saw I had him. The repair of 13$ would have been 5 more infantry, which I could have taken.
I lost more of my planes (all the tacs) demolishing the first US crossing force. That was a solid trade, but later in the game I had to build 2 inf 1 fighter on Romania/UK because I was just so short of planes.
The takeaway is that if you’re lucky during the opener, and your opponent doesn’t build 6+ Infantry, this will usually work in 1 wave, and for certain in 2 waves. However, if you lose the 1st wave, or any planes, the game overall will be harder to win than a traditional chase after Russia. The UK sending the fighters to taranto makes it quite a bit weaker–I think he kept 3 fighters home. That meant Italy got to fight off most of the UK remnants later in the game.
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@simon33 no scramble, I lost 3 subs during the open, maybe 1 tac.
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I’m a very big fan of 1 destroyer, 1 fighter, 1 bomber. I don’t think I’d want to do what taamvan described and save 10 IPCs.
Most games right now that’s my G1 purchase because it’s useful and helps to keep the UK honest.I’d rather have the fighter already. Who knows, UK might screw up in the med. (or dice screws them) and you are better off landing that extra fighter on the Italian stack at Alexandria.
2 planes are useful for Sea Lion or Barbarossa. The destroyer can only be used against the Russian sub. But a destroyer is still useful for Sea Lion when combined with the cruiser (assuming a wounded Bismark did not make it back to SZ 112 from SZ 111).
If the air base is also successfully bombed on G2 (turn transports are purchased), than it’s probably that the UK doesn’t pay the minimal off. If they do, you might have to Italy try again :) Even still, if going Sea Lion, you did buy 2 planes, so you might afford enough planes in SZ 110 on G3 to prevent a scramble.
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His question was, what’s the best buy for G1 regardless of actual intend to do Sea Lion, while not costing too much against the more likely invasion of Russia.
I don’t think the CV and 2 trans. are the best that won’t cost too much against a more likely Barbarossa.
I’ve heard people debating 2 bombers/1 sub…ect. Myself I think 1 destroyer / 1 fighter / 1 bomber. Anyways, they all have similar pros/cons.
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@Ichabod said in Most efficient Axis Turn 1 for Sea Lion option:
His question was, what’s the best buy for G1 regardless of actual intend to do Sea Lion, while not costing too much against the more likely invasion of Russia.
I don’t think the CV and 2 trans. are the best that won’t cost too much against a more likely Barbarossa.
I’ve heard people debating 2 bombers/1 sub…ect. Myself I think 1 destroyer / 1 fighter / 1 bomber. Anyways, they all have similar pros/cons.
Good point. So I’m a bit confused how the question differs from “what’s the most optimal buy G1?”. Throwing in a bomber G1 is always nice because it’s useful in both options. I like the destroyer too but I don’t really like the fighter much. Saving 10IPCs is an option but I think putting down a couple of artillery for the Barbarossa is better.
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@simon33 Yeah, the fighter seems unnecessary. I like bombers, and a destroyer is useful, but there are scenarios where you just flat out ignore the Russian subs, so that’s why I had gone 2 bombers, save 6… if you want the destroyer you can buy it G2.
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Why do you guys think a fighter isn’t very useful?
Could lose one G1 attacking UK fleet and it’s replaced already.
It’s an extra dice rolled in Sea Lion.
It can land on Alexandria to reinforce the Italian stack if Cairo somehow becomes an option.
I think purchasing the destroyer, while not required (can be bought G2) does signal that you would actually go through with Sea Lion. Might make UK respect the purchases.
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@Ichabod I just like the bomber better… hitting the factory, longer reach. Still have planes available for Alexandria.
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my favorites (not only for sea lion)
- 1 carrier 2 transport
- 1 carrier 1 transport 1 sub
- 1 carrier 1 sub 1 destroyer
- 3 fighters @Karl7
- 2 bombers 1 sub
- 1 fighter, 1 bomber 1 destroyer (very efficient against G40 2nd ed high allied bids)
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The most effective options are:
1 Carrier 2 transports
1 Bomber, 1 Destroyer, 1 Fighter.The problem with the carrier and transports is that UK KNOWS that you are going to do a sealion. The other build can be used either way. However with the bomber build you need to take yugo, france, and normandy because you need 70 ipc’s to build 10 transports for turn 2. You have to send in 1 or 2 fighters to escort for your bombing run. You also need to send in not only bombers but your Tacts to bomb the airbase. If the UK is stacking fighters, and there are some destroyers left they could knock your fleet out before you unload.
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@Ichabod said in Most efficient Axis Turn 1 for Sea Lion option:
His question was, what’s the best buy for G1 regardless of actual intend to do Sea Lion, while not costing too much against the more likely invasion of Russia.
Exactly my issue. How to handle Germany’s turn, let Sea Lion be an option since, let’s face it, its useful for Germany to force UK to spend IPCs on inf for London at the very least but not committing to it since UK/US can prevent it, so why waste IPCs and things you don’t need or can’t efficiently use.
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Well you ask everyone’s opinion even though your dead set on 2 bombers…LOL
I offered a kind of jack of all trades example, and then you poo poo the fighter purchase!
When I was newer to this game I often bought 2 bombers and a sub (or tank)…but now I kind of like the mix of 1 fig, 1 des, 1 bom. Doesn’t mean I win more games or anything.
My plan results in 3 bombers…still enough to bomb London if going Sea Lion!
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I see the merit in the fighter but I wouldn’t sacrifice artillery heading for Moscow for it. Germany normally has a tonne of fighters unless UK scrambles to 110. One more isn’t going to be game changing if you don’t go for the sea lion.
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@simon33 And if UK scrambles all 3 into 110, unless you get diced, Germany should probably do Sea Lion. UK needs 4+ fighters to defend against that.
@Ichabod fair critique. Re-reading your suggestion, I can’t recall the last time I used Germany to help Italy in Africa. I’ve been writing it off for months now and simply heading to Moscow. My IRL opponents will tell you I LOVE my bombers, especially as Germany, since it means you can threaten ships off Gibraltor and hit Cairo/Alexandria while sitting in W. Germany.
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@weddingsinger said in Most efficient Axis Turn 1 for Sea Lion option:
@simon33 And if UK scrambles all 3 into 110, unless you get diced, Germany should probably do Sea Lion. UK needs 4+ fighters to defend against that.
Highly debatable. Even if you have a 2 bomber buy, Sea Lion is highly risky and USA can come in and liberate London before too much damage is done if your fleet is sunk. You need to keep your fleet alive somehow.
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@simon33 I suppose it depends on U.S.’ buy and whether UK has any fighters left in England or not and how much German air force is left.
If they don’t use the London Calling strategy, its actually not too hard to keep the German fleet against modest U.S. aggression. G3’s buy can include 3 ships dropped into the channel. If UK lost most of their fighters, you can send a destroyer (G2 buy) out as a blocker to sz104 if US is already at Gibraltor, or sz103 if US is at 102.
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You’re refering to a turn 3 blocker.
I think simon is thinking of the situation on the board by round 5-6. By then Germany may or may not have pushed Russia back quick enough. Germany may be faced with either Russia making too much money in order to delay liberation or letting London be liberated to get Leningrad quickly.
I think Germany should have enough Navy already before Sea Lion to where at most they buy 1 Carrier and 1 Destroyer when they do Sea Lion in sz110. It’s best if they only have to buy a carrier so their other purchases can hopefully push Russia back quick.
But anyways, I still think my buy works better for a Sea Lion game, but not still too bad for Barbarossa. You still have 3 bombers total to bomb London on G2…and already have a destroyer. You might still need to but another destroyer the same turn you buy transports to minimize the amount of air going to sz 110 to prevent a scramble.
If you buy 1 bomber, 1 destroyer, 2 artillery and save 2 (because you think that’s better than a fighter), than that buy might not turtle UK as much as you want.
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Also, regarding the 2 bomber / 1 sub buy, I think the sub is still necessary. It’s a hit point to pair with the Cruiser and hopefully a retreated Bismark. On the Air base the Navy can anchor at SZ 112. The sub can help finish off the wounded UK battleship from SZ 111 or be used the turn you do Sea Lion to prevent Russian lend lease money by placing it in SZ 125.
Sea Lion games are usually successful if Russia is properly managed.
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