Axis Europe Victory Conditions



  • Hi - Thanks for your help - Playing Alpha 3 rules

    G11 has just seen the Axis in Europe take 8 VC (Everything except Moscow),

    My question is,

    If by G12 the Axis still have those 8VC do they win?

    (in house disagreement on the trem ‘complete round’) - any help would be appreciated……



  • If I recall correctly they cannot have lost any of them, even if italy takes them back. The axis have to hold 8 and those 8 must not be lost (or even lost and retaken) until the start of the turn of the player who got to 8. Sorry if that’s more confusing, someone else might explain it better.



  • Just to be clear on neilnomates post….
    I am his opponent. I have just played Germany’s turn on G11. I took Leningrad. He can’t retake any of the 8 victory cities on this turn (turn 11) with any of the allies. At the start of the next turn (turn 12) Germany will play and it will still have 8 cities, thereby having held 8 victory cities for one complete round of play (ie. every nation had a go before it came round to Germany again.
    This is one interpretation of the term ONE COMPLETE ROUND OF PLAY.
    OR…
    Do I have to capture 8 victory cities on G11.
    Then start G12 holding 8 victory cities and hold them for another whole turn (thereby giving Russia and all the other allies two attempts to retake one of the 8 cities…
    The fate of our game hangs on this decision…
    Many thanks 🙂



  • (I’ll post anyway…)

    To make things clearer:

    G11 has just occurred. At the end of G11 Germany holds:

    Germany - 1vc
    France - 2vc
    UK - 3vc
    Poland - 4vc
    Novgorod - 5vc
    Volgograd - 6vc

    Italy holds

    Southern Italy - 7vc

    Japan Holds

    Egypt - 8vc

    So at the end of G11 Axis in Europe hold 8VC.

    So if they still hold all 8 VC by the start of G12 - do the Axis Win?



  • As far as I understand, once France goes (the last in the round) if either the Axis or Allies have achieved a VC victory at that point - then the game is decided.


  • '12

    Yes, it sounds like Germany will win this game if the Allies don’t capture any of the VCs in the rest of turn 11.  I’ve never heard anybody interpret the one complete round of play rule to mean that you had to start your turn with all the VCs in-hand and then wait again until your next turn to win.


  • '12

    @Spendo02:

    As far as I understand, once France goes (the last in the round) if either the Axis or Allies have achieved a VC victory at that point - then the game is decided.

    It has to cycle through back to the country that took the last VC, otherwise you wouldn’t have a complete round of play since all of your opponents wouldn’t have a chance to respond.



  • but they all get 1 turn to change that. so axis win G12 if they still hold 8 VC.

    Thanks guys, I’m doomed  :evil:



  • @Eqqman:

    @Spendo02:

    As far as I understand, once France goes (the last in the round) if either the Axis or Allies have achieved a VC victory at that point - then the game is decided.

    It has to cycle through back to the country that took the last VC, otherwise you wouldn’t have a complete round of play since all of your opponents wouldn’t have a chance to respond.

    This is the one I am leaning towards. We need krieghund to paratroop into this thread.



  • Actually, Spendo is right, too… Since, in this case, Germany was the one to capture the 8th VC, France would be the last turn to be played before the VC condition needed to be judged…  🙂


  • TripleA

    1 round of play means. IF last vs is taken G11, you win on G12. If it is Italy 11 you win on Italy 12.

    You take last vc on J8 you win on J9.

    You can’t take something on Italy 9 and win on G10.

    Basically every country has a chance to react, because it is one full round FROM THE TIME YOU TAKE IT.



  • Thank you very much gentlemen. Glorious victory for me, utter ruination of all the hopes and dreams of neilnomates. It’s been an epic four week long match.

    Happy Christmas everyone! 😄



  • I can undertstand how “one complete round”, might be enterpated as; one round, from the start of german turn, till the end of france.

    that way, if italy captured the last city on I9, they would win at the end of FR10.

    but this is not the intent of the rules, I am pretty sure



  • @Kreuzfeld:

    I can undertstand how “one complete round”, might be enterpated as; one round, from the start of german turn, till the end of france.

    that way, if italy captured the last city on I9, they would win at the end of FR10.

    but this is not the intent of the rules, I am pretty sure

    No, the game would be over after UK10. And If Japan captured the needed VC on J7, it would be over after R8.

    Cow is right. Everybody goes after the turn with the final VC. If that same country (that captured the winning VC) comes up again and the correct # of VCs have been in your hands for the whole time, Game Over.


  • TripleA

    If you lose a VC between germany and italy… it resets on italy turn if italy reclaims or claims a vc.

    So your timer would reset for italy. next round.

    If at any point on the allies turns you drop below the VC win requirement, the timer resets. You take it with a country and you got to hold it a whole round again.

    Example Egypt. Germany takes it. has the VC count for the win, USA takes it back, Italy takes it back. On germany’s turn he does not win, he has to wait till italy’s next turn to win. UK takes back egypt before italy’s turn. The game keeps going.


  • TripleA

    Germany - 1vc
    France - 2vc
    UK - 3vc
    Poland - 4vc
    Novgorod - 5vc
    Volgograd - 6vc

    Italy holds

    Southern Italy - 7vc

    Japan Holds

    Egypt - 8vc

    If the allies reclaim any of them even if it is just for a turn, the 1 round timer resets. see above post.



  • The Allies don’t even have to hold it for a round. If England takes Egypt back from Japan, then Italy takes it from England, the Axis have to hold all those cities until the beginning of Italy’s next turn



  • @Fortress:

    @Kreuzfeld:

    I can undertstand how “one complete round”, might be enterpated as; one round, from the start of german turn, till the end of france.

    that way, if italy captured the last city on I9, they would win at the end of FR10.

    but this is not the intent of the rules, I am pretty sure

    No, the game would be over after UK10. And If Japan captured the needed VC on J7, it would be over after R8.

    Cow is right. Everybody goes after the turn with the final VC. If that same country (that captured the winning VC) comes up again and the correct # of VCs have been in your hands for the whole time, Game Over.

    I did, and do know this interpretation is wrong. I was just commenting on the fact that I just realized that it was possible to read the sentence “hold for one complete round” could be interpreted in such a way.

    However, interpreting the rules in this way might be a sort of elegant way of balancing the game (if we assume its axis advantage).

    waddayasay? cow? fortress?



  • IMHO, I think the bid addresses any imbalance nicely. If there is an axis advantage, then there should be a limit as to what a player would be willing to give the other to play the allies.

    I think Pacific victories would be harder to come by, and make it easier on the USA. I think the game works pretty well as it stands, with the ability to bid.



  • The problem with the bid is that a bid of 12 is not just 1 ipc more than a bid of 11, being able to place 2 subs is very valuable

    some people have been expressing that a bid of 10 is too much, because a fighter can be purchased. There is too much to be gained by placing units exactly where you want them on the opening turn.

    IMO any rule that decrease the bid, without changing the nature of the opening turn would be a better solution than an increased bid.



  • That is why I prefer to incorporate the “no more than one unit per territory or seazone” rule.

    I think the great variation that bids provide allow for great replayability. Who wants a game that always depends on what kind of dice Germany got G1? Pick sides, set up the board, roll a couple dice, quit. Blech.

    To your point about a 12 being too much, though - only 1 game has been finished in the league this year with a bid over 11, and the axis(-15) won.

    Most good players are not going to give their opponent more than 10, is what we’ve been seeing in the league results. And among what appear to be opponents of close skill level, the Allies have won at +9, +10, +8, +10, +9, and +8. And the Axis have won at -9, -15, -7, -9, and -11. Yes, that’s a small sample size, but it seems to be pretty even.

    I think the best judges of when a game is fair and balanced are the players. As you can see, over half the games have been run at an 8 or 9. And 2/3 of those games have been won by the Allies. You have people that don’t want to give bids too big, people that acknowledge the Axis has an advantage, people that don’t really want to play the Allies - it’s an interesting and fluid dynamic that always seems to find its own level.


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