also pretty easy to convoy it and then you get no dough
The Afrika Korps
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I’ve read your strategy with great interest as I’ve tried in the last couple of days to activate Italy even more. I think it’s a shame the role Italy takes after a Taranto raid.
What version is this strat based on? The following is based on second edition.
In general I think it’s a cool idea, but many of the attacks are very risky. For the following, Mean Surviving Units = MSU.
Just to name a few battles:
France, MSU: 7,5. Not much room for error, could easily eat some of your tanks. No artillery left for 2nd round attack on Normandy.
SZ111, with 1 scramble, MSU: ~1. (3 fighters lost)
Yugoslavia: Hard to tell, but 3 units requires a quite perfect strafe.
French fleet: 1-2 MSU, can be costly.Worst is Turkey. As you activate the strict neutral rule by attacking Sweden, Russia could easily slide in and station some fast moving troops in Turkey, leaving 12-14 units to kill for the Italian 14 attacking units.
But again, what version are you playing? :-)
Thank you for your response! I am playing Alpha 3+. I put some FAQ also. I will try to answer your questions one by one :)
France, indeed exciting battle, but with MSU 7.5 maybe some Artillery or even a Tank may die, this one Tank less of the Second Wave group does not make a difference. Normandy would have to wait for another turn but there are 6 Infantry from GSE coming as reinforcements.
SZ111 should maybe receive a Bomber then, but might leave SZ109 too weak which is the more important due to Convoy Raiding. In Alpha+3 there is a Battleship, Destroyer and possible Scottish Fighter against 1 Sub, 2 Fighters, 2 Tactical. It indeed looks a bit weak. Thanks!
Yugoslavia might fail, it does not matter, just 2 IPC less for Italy as German tanks need to be there in their G2 anyway.
I put the Turkey battle in the FAQ. It might seem difficult, but Italy is able to bring a lot of force combined with fodder there in any situation. Ofcourse a lot stronger without Taranto, but still 2 full transports in I2 while also I1 send a full transport to Greece. Also Russia is not able to reinforce Turkey or go outside Russia at all, because the Axis wait with a G3 DOW by invading Caucasus in the first place. I used 1 Mech, Infantry because I suspect it will be open, but this could be the full First wave (3 Tanks, 4 Mech. Infantry).
It is also likely Russia only has 1 turn to mobilize towards the south as he realized you are planning to push through Turkey. Or as attacking the Neutrals (especially Turkey with Italy) so early is not common he might not even see it coming until the first Tank has taken the Caucasus. Italy taking Turkey instead of Germany really gives you this extra push where otherwise the Russian player is able to react/defend accordingly. This push through Turkey is what I see as the strongest aspect of this strategy because Italy creates a lot of openers for all the German Tanks to push through therefore able to take Stalingrad and Egypt so very early.
Looking forward to see your responses!
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I’m willing to try it out, that’s for sure :-)
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Okay, thoughts so far, only at J2.
I like how dominating the subs are in the Atlantic. Really cool! However, it is possible to gather up with the UK fleet in z92, using the transport from Egypt to transport 1-2 inf to Gib along with all fighters from the UK. This is the single transport in z112 not able to beat and the UK fleet is not locked in the Med.
I also experienced that the French fleet got 2 hits, such that I had no blocker in z93, and now the UK fleet can kill off the Italien fleet in UK2. I could ofc sacrifice the Italian bomber and place a blocker in 94 instead. Seems quite expensive in the edge case though.
The Sweden attack combined with the stacking of Greece is pretty telling that Turkey is next, and the Russian has already stacked Caucasus pretty stable (I always do this a bit to attack Northwest Persia whenever Germany attacks).
I’ll carry on later and see how it goes.
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Okay, thoughts so far, only at J2.
I like how dominating the subs are in the Atlantic. Really cool! However, it is possible to gather up with the UK fleet in z92, using the transport from Egypt to transport 1-2 inf to Gib along with all fighters from the UK. This is the single transport in z112 not able to beat and the UK fleet is not locked in the Med.
I also experienced that the French fleet got 2 hits, such that I had no blocker in z93, and now the UK fleet can kill off the Italien fleet in UK2. I could ofc sacrifice the Italian bomber and place a blocker in 94 instead. Seems quite expensive in the edge case though.
The Sweden attack combined with the stacking of Greece is pretty telling that Turkey is next, and the Russian has already stacked Caucasus pretty stable (I always do this a bit to attack Northwest Persia whenever Germany attacks).
I’ll carry on later and see how it goes.
Hmm you are right. In that case I would be very aggressive with Italy leaving Yugoslavia to get Greece and Trans-Jordan both with 1 Artillery and 1 Infantry from transports to lock off entry of a second UK Destroyer and still do the French Fleet kill with Sub, Battleship and Bomber while blocking SZ94 with a destroyer. Ofcourse when the UK builds a Airbase on Gibraltar Turn 1 the Italian transports are dead. In this case in Italy 2 I take both Egypt (7 Infantry, 3 Artillery, 1 Mech. Infantry, 1 Tank, 1 Bomber) and Turkey (5 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 2 Tanks, 3 Fighter) although they both are becoming very dicey. It does not matter if Italy is Knocked Out after this round, as long Germany can throw its full weight at the Caucasus and just send a single Mech. Infantry to Egypt. However it does not feel right… UK can dominate the Med throughout the game and convoy Italy to death.
Also the UK only has a single Destroyer while Germany has 7 Submarines, how could you turn this into your advantage? Maybe place 2 Subs in three different sea zones: SZ91, SZ90 and SZ103. He can only attack a single sea zone and will need to bring his last Destroyer which might even die on a lucky roll. Hmm, this scenario needs some thought.
Maybe its better to unite the Italian fleet in SZ97, now 1 Battleship, 2 Cruisers, 1 Destroyer, 1 Sub, 3 Fighters and park those Subs outside while you still do an amphibious assault on Gibraltar with 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 1 Artillery, 1 Infantry killing 2-3 UK units although what do you gain besides a killed Bismarck and transport?
Are there G1 buys or ways to let SZ110 live? It are really those RAF Fighters that give me a headache to think about a nice counter.
EDIT: The best option I can currently think of is the classic buy of 1 Carrier, 2 Transports doing a Sea Lion feign while able to take Gibraltar G2 and bring the Germany Tactical into SZ111. Then I should also attack SZ110 instead of SZ109 and let the UK do their traditional stuff (Taranto) but I could finish the Royal Navy off in G2. 1 Sub attacks SZ106 and the other SZ91.
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Wall of text :/
Where is the german NCM where germany lands 2-3 ftrs in italy to scramble against taronto? This should have more impact in italys chances than all of your other moves combined…
Also. I think this strategy assumes the russian player really is asleep. You asume that the russians have no troops close to cauc while you are stacking up next to turkey, and then you assume they build nothing and moves nothing down there after you take cauc. Which you assume will fall to 1 mechinf and 2 bombers… Many russians will have 3 mechs + 3 tanks in cauc, planning on hitting the middle east themselves once war starts.
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Okay, thoughts so far, only at J2.
I like how dominating the subs are in the Atlantic. Really cool! However, it is possible to gather up with the UK fleet in z92, using the transport from Egypt to transport 1-2 inf to Gib along with all fighters from the UK. This is the single transport in z112 not able to beat and the UK fleet is not locked in the Med.
I also experienced that the French fleet got 2 hits, such that I had no blocker in z93, and now the UK fleet can kill off the Italien fleet in UK2. I could ofc sacrifice the Italian bomber and place a blocker in 94 instead. Seems quite expensive in the edge case though.
The Sweden attack combined with the stacking of Greece is pretty telling that Turkey is next, and the Russian has already stacked Caucasus pretty stable (I always do this a bit to attack Northwest Persia whenever Germany attacks).
I’ll carry on later and see how it goes.
Thanks for this insight yesterday, I am really glad I posted the strategy before I tested it out to fix these sort of mistakes! Actually delaying the build of Submarines to convoy the UK for a single turn and creating an Aircraft Carrier and two Transports instead creates a lot more possibilities with this strategy.
G1: Allows two Tactical Bombers to join sea battles, gives 4 more hits to you Baltic Fleet and forces the UK to turtle up as I could easily do a Sea Lion if they don’t.
G2: Invade Gibraltar and Morocco, giving Italy +5 NO
G3: Invade Algeria and Tunisia, giving Italy +5 NO
G4: Invade Egypt, this allows Germany to throw its Afrika Korps against Russian forces in Caucacus instead
G5: Invade Ukraine or Caucasus if Russians took it backThis also answers the observation of Kreuzfeld, as now I can throw 3 Tanks, 4 Mech. Infantry,1 Fighter and 2 Bombers against those 3 Mech. Infantry and 3 Tanks. I experienced some times my Russian opponent leaves Caucasus lightly defended so can pick extra income for Germany instead. However if Germany needs to focus on Russia first, give the Middle East to Italy.
The goal of this strategy is to make sure the Axis get those 16 IPC and strategic location of the Middle East as soon as possible. I am sure the Afrika Korps (14 Tanks, 4 Mech. Infantry, 6 Infantry) supported by Airforce and the Bismarck with 3 Transports is able to push through the Southern Russian defenses. As soon you have conquered the south you could go for the slow kill and take Africa in the meantime. This strategy also tries to change the: Go Russia or Go Home, the time race, the gamble.
As long as Germany eventually gets Iraq, Persia or Saudi Arabia and can build a Middle East factory there if needed I’m satisfied as I will likely take over the Stalingrad and Ukraine factories in no time anyway.
Also I will still convoy the UK starting from Turn 2, instead of a Bomber I build two extra Subs and in Turn 3 a Bomber instead of 2 Tanks, problem solved :)
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Are you using the setup from the orignal game of from the 2nd edition.
As you are attacking with your cruiser round 1 and in 2ne edition setup that isnt possible.
ZS112 is empty in that case.I am using Alpha +3, is this an outdated version?
In our case there is an UK Cruiser and French Cruiser in SZ112 at the start of the game. 1 Battleship and 1 Cruiser in SZ110, 1 Destroyer and 1 Transport in SZ109 and 1 Battleship and 1 Destroyer in SZ111 -
I am using Alpha +3, is this an outdated version?
1940 2nd Edition has superseded Alpha+3 about four years ago.
Assuming your Alpha+3 ruleset/setup reflects the latest version of those days, the difference to 2nd Edition I quickly recall is:-
Korea is part of the Soviet-Mongolian Defense Pact in 2nd Ed.
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In 2nd Ed. setup there is one UK Infantry less in Egypt
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2nd Ed. map merged Yukon Territory with British Columbia
HTH :-)
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Are you using the setup from the orignal game of from the 2nd edition.
As you are attacking with your cruiser round 1 and in 2ne edition setup that isnt possible.
ZS112 is empty in that case.I am using Alpha +3, is this an outdated version?
In our case there is an UK Cruiser and French Cruiser in SZ112 at the start of the game. 1 Battleship and 1 Cruiser in SZ110, 1 Destroyer and 1 Transport in SZ109 and 1 Battleship and 1 Destroyer in SZ111Guess you are using the original setup not the newer setups. Of my information is flawed.
You can kill a lot of UK forces a lot easier and UK is virtualy defenseless VS sea lion in your setup.
And the UK med fleet is a lot weaker if im correct ( there is normaly 1 carrier + 1 cruiser + 1 destroyer + tactical off egypt and 1 fighter on malta )Thanks I compared Alpha+3 with 2.0 and the only big difference are those 2 Cruisers on SZ112 so the rest should be comparable with current edition :)
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ruiser round 1 and in 2ne edition setup that isnt possible.
ZS112 is empty in that case.Thanks I compared Alpha+3 with 2.0 and the only big difference are those 2 Cruisers on SZ112 so the rest should be comparable with current edition :)
Better do a complete check for all units, download the new setup would be good. It is easy to miss a unit here or a fighter there and that might make a huge difference.
I did a full check, only SZ111, SZ110 and SZ112 have differences above the minor tweaks already mentioned by you :)
EDIT: I corrected the G1 Build and other suggestions into the strategy so it becomes more battle proof with every single piece of feedback.
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ruiser round 1 and in 2ne edition setup that isnt possible.
ZS112 is empty in that case.Thanks I compared Alpha+3 with 2.0 and the only big difference are those 2 Cruisers on SZ112 so the rest should be comparable with current edition :)
Better do a complete check for all units, download the new setup would be good. It is easy to miss a unit here or a fighter there and that might make a huge difference.
I did a full check, only SZ111, SZ110 and SZ112 have differences above the minor tweaks already mentioned by you :)
EDIT: I corrected the G1 Build and other suggestions into the strategy so it becomes more battle proof with every single piece of feedback.
You are expecting a lot of moves from the allies
Amur with 9 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Mech, Infantry, 8 Fighters, 6 Tacticals -> what will this force attack? 18 inf + 2 AA, or an empty zone.
You really expect russia to stay on the coast round 1? russia isnt stupid.Soviet Far East with 1 Tank from Japan by transport SZ19
Siberia with 1 Infantry from Okinawa by transport SZ19
->> These 2 moves cannot be done, you cannot unload the same transport into 2 different land areas even if they are next to the same SZ.<germany>Yugoslavia with 4 Mech. Infantry, 2 Artillery, 1 Tank (Romania) -> Why not take the other 2 tanks with you as well.</germany>
1. I expect 2-4 Infantry but even when empty I will take with full ground forces. Airforce has nothing better to do since JDOW4. Would you also do JDOW4 or consider JDWOW1 with this strategy?
2. Good point, my mistake
3. Great idea!
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<germany>1. I expect 2-4 Infantry but even when empty I will take with full ground forces. Airforce has nothing better to do since JDOW4. Would you also do JDOW4 or consider JDWOW1 with this strategy?</germany>
There will be 0, 1 or 18 inf there if you are playing against any decent player.
If you can hit with all that, It will probably be 0.
If there is 18 units + 2 AA you will lose all your landsunits and 1 plane. They will be there if the allied want to draw you away from the south. If they are there and you attack, you can probably expect a DOW from UK and anzak right after.
If you put in all your units and there is 0 units there, you have just given the russians mongolia and a counterattack with 21 infs against 9 inf, 1 art and 1 mech. You will lose everything, and they will lose 10 units.
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<germany>1. I expect 2-4 Infantry but even when empty I will take with full ground forces. Airforce has nothing better to do since JDOW4. Would you also do JDOW4 or consider JDWOW1 with this strategy?</germany>
There will be 0, 1 or 18 inf there if you are playing against any decent player.
If you can hit with all that, It will probably be 0.
If there is 18 units + 2 AA you will lose all your landsunits and 1 plane. They will be there if the allied want to draw you away from the south. If they are there and you attack, you can probably expect a DOW from UK and anzak right after.
If you put in all your units and there is 0 units there, you have just given the russians mongolia and a counterattack with 21 infs against 9 inf, 1 art and 1 mech. You will lose everything, and they will lose 10 units.
Will it make the difference if you also use 1 Tank, 2 Infantry and 1 Artillery from Japan? As long as aircraft can reach Yunnan and transports FIC in Turn 3 anything is possible.
If all retreats attacking Mongolia could also be an option as I attack Strict Neutrals in G2 anyway (but might signal intention to the UK + USA)
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Great new ideas. Some general observations;
-I’ve seen several different neutral violation gambits, but usually all 3 of the big neutrals get hit on the same turn. Killing infantry isn’t hard, but the timing can be because the pieces have to be staged in advance so they cant do anything else it places some pretty big stacks out of position at a critical time (these frontline forces are off in the hinterlands instead of the front line.
-We have created several of these Axis gambits that reach their novel target on turn 4. War may be declared before that point, but there are a lot of moves you can do while taking advantage of the power of deciding when war will begin and passing at peace, and taking advantage of the fact that the Axis all get to go without Allies in between, except Russia, which cant project air power to stop you/block you very well.
-These strategies are fun and let you do some creative new things, but they also let the 4 smaller allied powers grow their economies undisturbed for a long time, which becomes very difficult to defeat. The advantage gained by waiting is not usually offset by the gains in comparison to a more vanilla J1 or J2+kill Russia.
-Also, these gambits require you to hit specific targets in sequence without failing to take one of them. This isn’t impossible considering how much mobility navy and power the Axis get OOB, but the problem becomes that you MUST hit your objectives regardless of losses and luck (the turkey part of this strat, for example). The effect of this is that you must take greater and greater risks as the game goes on in order to make your strategy develop and this is susceptible to attrition…the critical battles will occur but you will have to take very high losses and the risks and uncertainties grow with each turn.
Good luck!
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Thanks! I will soon test it out! Also, no battle plan survives combat as Erwin Rommel wisely said.
It is still a race against the clock but in a wealthy and often regarded as secondary theater of the war (Middle East and Africa). If it fails I could easily adjust to Barbarossa because of the armour being build (I hope).
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This has been a very interesting gameplan. Let me know if you ever want to test it out in a friendly game.
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@Arthur:
This has been a very interesting gameplan. Let me know if you ever want to test it out in a friendly game.
I would love you only I have only played offline so far!
I would also like to add the Grand Philisophy to this strategy. As noted before, a lot of point are to be gained in Africa and the Middle East, 52 IPC, this is an 104 IPC swing into the Axis favour, most notibly for Italy (Axis) and UK (Allies). It is also a real possibility most of the IPC’ are taken before 5-6.
You also don’t leave Russia with its 38 IPC as Japan will play extremely agressive in the East and Germany at three different flanks, south combined with Italy. This is another 25 IPC gained for the the Axis and thus 50 IPC swing before turn 5. Yes you delay the capture of Moscow with 2-4 turns but you make a 154 IPC swing before turn 5 while the USA has just started to cash 70 IPC. This is just Russia, Africa and Middle East. Add the IPC swing of a broken China and the UK Pacific gets taken in J4.
After Turn 4 the economies will look like this
Axis: 210+
Germany: 90+
Japan: 80+
Italy: 40+Allies: 135+
USA: 75+
UK Atlantic: 15+
UK Pacific: 0
Russia: 15+
Anzac: 25+
China: 5+While the Axis are still advancing, Japan will get Money Islands, Germany rest of Russia and Italy some more Africa.
A more tactical benefit of using your initial German armour to push through the Middle East (therefore creating Afrika Korps) is that no matter what, the Axis are in control of the Middle East, there is nothing that could stop that since you force the UK to play defensive with your G1 buy (otherwise it could send all its airforce to the Middle East). By just giving Italy some of the oil nations (I prefer both Persian countries) they are really close to making 40 IPC combined with the other NO’s. Even when Egypt or Stalingrad gets somehow blocked, you could build Axis ME factories and start pumping armour.
Another tactical move of Japan underlined. In J2 you send a big part of your fleet and 3 full transports to Caroline Islands. This forces ANZAC to turtle or you could take sydney. They will still be together wih India invasion force in J3 and take India in J4 but you delayed ANZAC 2-3 turns from expansion.
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Oke some new ideas possibly improving the strategy some more.
In my G1 build 2 Transports are actually too much as with just 2 Transports, 1 Battleship, 1 Aircraft Carrier, 2 Infantry, 2 Artillery I can take Gibraltar, Morocco just fine same as dropping off a German land unit in Egypt (or actually take it after Italian strafe). It was also another 2 Infantry less on the Russian frontier which is already missing the Bulgaria and Greater South Germany Infantry (12 total).
As I needed some Submarines in my G2 anyway I build 1 Submarine instead of the Transport. This gives me +6 IPC in G2 and even better can start convoy raiding the UK in Turn 2 instead of Turn 3. Still Sea Lion feint and if UK really screws up I can take London.
G2 buy actually just needs 1 Sub for SZ125 as soon war starts with Russia. Also, the Baltic Fleet has been reassigned to the Africa Korps therefore leaving the Baltic empty so actually I also do not really need that Destroyer. Insteas of those 2 Submarines and 1 Destroyer I now buy 8 Tanks for Russia instead of 5. I keep the 1 Bomber buy in G2 as Bombers provide a lot of things the Tanks can not.
While my initial plan for the Afrika Krops was three waves of armour, the buy of an German Africa Fleet in G1 has lifted the task for taking Egypt, combined with the 5 Third Wave Tanks this would be overkill and inefficient. More efficiently I use them directly in frontal assault against Russia. With a G3 buy of 7 Tanks and 1 Bomber I made the diversion of the 6 Infantry towards Spain no problem at all at sending 15 Tanks instead. This means I can take Leningrad also in G4!
Therefore in G4 I am really able to get all (besides Moscow) National Objectives!
- NO for Sweden
- NO for Iraq
- NO for Egypt
- NO for Caucasus
- NO for Leningrad
- NO for Stalingrad
If I can somehow get one more 1 IPC somewhere I can build 8 Bombers in G5 netting me 14 Bombers. Another 8 In G6 already gives me 22 Bombers to either kill the USA fleet or take Moscow in G7-8. Also don’t forgot that Italy is earning 40 IPC from I3 onwards easily capable of defending Europe while helping Germany in Russia.
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How about you sign up to play and you can test this strategy against the allies. :-D
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Therefore in G4 I am really able to get all (besides Moscow) National Objectives!
- NO for Sweden
- NO for Iraq
- NO for Egypt
- NO for Caucasus
- NO for Leningrad
- NO for Stalingrad
it seems like you assume that the russians and the UK does to build any troops, or place them where you can easily take them
You are planning to
Take Egypt with 2 Artillery, 2 Infantry, 2 Tactical
while UK at setup as 5 inf 1 mech 2 art and 1 tank in Egypt + alexandria + sudan… Any UK player will also land the S africans somewhere, activate iran and kill iraq before G3.
When you attack ussr, your army is so small that it is suicidal. your army going into russia on G3 is the following:
Take Caucasus with 3 Tanks, 3 Mech. Infantry and 2 Bombers
…
Take Bessarabia with 2 Infantry
Take Baltic States with 2 Infantry, 10 Tanks
Take Eastern Poland with 11 Infantry, 1 ArtillerySo, in total, 13 tanks, 15 inf and 1 art
while russia should have at that point:
Starts with 28 inf, 2 mech, 3 art, 2 tank
Builds: about 10 art, 10 inf + about 35 ipc in planes/art/Mech/tank.This means that he can have a big enough army in belo/novogord/Ukraine to just murder all of your army without too big losses, while you are still not strong enough to take cauc and he is outproducing you.
I would guess you might lose berlin on USSR8 with your plan.
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