Speed of Play

[Young Grasshopper]

…all good points, not saying it doesn’t take practice and awarness that’s for sure.

[The Hessian]

Hey guys,

the problem with the 10+ hour game exist also in our group. One thing we use to avoid this and bring our games to a decision is by using Young Grasshoppers victory conditions. Thanks YG! (Can’t find the link right now… :|)

An other option to speed things up by changing the turn order and moving several nations parallel will be tested in our next game (I know this definitely belongs to the “house rule” section. Sorry!):

• We plan to combine a) the German & Italian turns and b) the US & ANZAC turns. This will be done according to the OOB UK-Eur & UK-Pac turn; both nations have their separated economies but may move and attack together. (In case of control of new captured territories, the nation with the most ground forces after the battle will gain control of it.)
  In the 1st game turn Italy may not buy units, move, attack or collect income at all. This is necessary because UK must get the chance for a raid against the Italian Battleship. You can justify this with the late Italian declaration of war (after the big show in France was nearly over) and her poorly handled first offensives against Egypt and Greece in Sep. & Oct. 1940.

• The new turn order will be:

1. Germany & Italy
2. Japan
3. Russia
4. China
5. UK (Eur & Pac)
6. France (In most cases France will not get any turn at all since we use some HR simulating the fall of France after the capture of Paris & Normandy.)
7. USA & ANZAC

While on the one hand I definitely will miss the alternating change of turns between axis and allied powers, with this turn order we hope to gain valuable time since the allies can think about their strategy in the upcoming turn, purchase new units, etc. immediately after the axis powers made their turns and visa versa.

Greetings,
Lars

[Der Kuenstler]

The best solution is to have a dedicated game area where there is no pressure to finish the game in one sitting. My guys show up and know that we will play 3 rounds and quit, and it will take about 4 1/2 hours. Having a “get this done today” mentality really changes the whole dynamic of how the game goes, and  fatigue starts to play a part in the outcome after a few rounds. Not everyone has a room for that solution, I know. I went many years without the space.

[The Hessian]

But even if there is the room dedicated to the game, many guys in our group have only time to play once per month. No real solution (for us)…

[Nippon-koku]

@The:

Hey guys,

the problem with the 10+ hour game exist also in our group. One thing we use to avoid this and bring our games to a decision is by using Young Grasshoppers victory conditions. Thanks YG! (Can’t find the link right now… :|)

An other option to speed things up by changing the turn order and moving several nations parallel will be tested in our next game (I know this definitely belongs to the “house rule” section. Sorry!):

• We plan to combine a) the German & Italian turns and b) the US & ANZAC turns. This will be done according to the OOB UK-Eur & UK-Pac turn; both nations have their separated economies but may move and attack together. (In case of control of new captured territories, the nation with the most ground forces after the battle will gain control of it.)
  In the 1st game turn Italy may not buy units, move, attack or collect income at all. This is necessary because UK must get the chance for a raid against the Italian Battleship. You can justify this with the late Italian declaration of war (after the big show in France was nearly over) and her poorly handled first offensives against Egypt and Greece in Sep. & Oct. 1940.

• The new turn order will be:

1. Germany & Italy
2. Japan
3. Russia
4. China
5. UK (Eur & Pac)
6. France (In most cases France will not get any turn at all since we use some HR simulating the fall of France after the capture of Paris & Normandy.)
7. USA & ANZAC

While on the one hand I definitely will miss the alternating change of turns between axis and allied powers, with this turn order we hope to gain valuable time since the allies can think about their strategy in the upcoming turn, purchase new units, etc. immediately after the axis powers made their turns and visa versa.

Greetings,
Lars

Hey Lars

That seems like quite a few changes to make just to account for speed of the game. If you have at least 4 players in your group I strongly recommend condensing the round into essentially a few moves (as mentioned, Germany and Japan go at the same time, etc.) and see how the games progress from there.  In most games the first few rounds should go pretty quickly.  If Germany and Japan have an idea of what they want to do (G2 and J3 just for arguments sake) then they are going with pretty basic moves and buys for the first couple of rounds.  Add to that that America and Russia really can’t do much until then (in the given scenario I could have America’s first two turns done in a combined 3 minutes) and you should be able to get through the first two rounds in as little as an hour, hour-ten.

One thing that can help is coming prepared.  For example, I’m playing with a group this Saturday and there will be four of us.  Before I get there I’ll already have an idea of what I want to do depending on which country I am.  That way I can walk in, have my buy ready to go and get started.

[The Hessian]

Thanks for the advice Nippon-koku San!  :-)

But we have already tried this. In most of our games we have 4-5 players; at least 3 of them are experienced players. (No.1 - Germany & Italy, No.2 - Japan, No.3 - Russia & China, No.4 UK, No.5 USA; Since we play with a Vichy-HR France is out of the game after round 1 and ANZAC is played by either UK or USA)
In all of our games the first turn will consume definitely the most time since we divide the nations immediately before the game by lot and some players need some time to get back into the game. Speaking for myself, since I host a game every 2-3 weeks, I’ve played every nation several times and have a pretty good idea what I want to do, but no play survives enemy contact. So during and after every enemy turn I have to adopt my strategy to the newest developments on the board.
This does not mean that I’m going to change my whole strategy every turn, but it will need some time to analyze the current situation.
So I think if one complete alliance plays after the other we will save valuable time. Our next game in mid-November will proof if this will work or not.

Greetings,
Lars

[Nippon-koku]

Let me know how it goes.  I’m genuinely curious!

Trying my first game of 1941 this weekend, so we’ll see if I can move as quickly as normal

[The Hessian]

I definitely will!

By “1941” do you mean A&A 1941 or an alternative 1941 set-up for Global 1940?

Good luck in any case!

[Nippon-koku]

Alternate setup.  I don’t know anything about it.

[The Hessian]

If it is an other Version than Oztea’s exellent 1941 set-up (http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=30919.0), it would be nice if you could share it with us.

[MarshmallowofWar]

Fixed time limits per power, with IPC penalties per minute for going over the limits. The only thing that doesn’t count against your time limit is time spent rolling combat. Folks speed up a lot when suddenly they have little money to spend because they spent too much time dithering on the previous turn. Allow a couple of “time outs” if you like, but this really keeps the game moving.

Marsh

[Nippon-koku]

@The:

If it is an other Version than Oztea’s exellent 1941 set-up (http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=30919.0), it would be nice if you could share it with us.

It was Oztea’s setup and it was excellent.  It’s a completely different game and I enjoyed it very much.  We had five people, I played as US and Anzac and was able to shut Japan down.  They didn’t take India until turn 8 and after taking it had no shot to get Hawaii or Sydney; they were out out of capital ships, China was doing very well after being aided by Russia, US had firm control of the DEI and Japan didn’t have the income to get that 6th VC.

We ended up calling the game after Germany won big in a battle that should’ve been a mutual annihilation.  As usual, it just came down to the rolling in one big battle  :-D

Great version and I look forward to playing it again

[Bravehart]

@Der:

The best solution is to have a dedicated game area where there is no pressure to finish the game in one sitting. My guys show up and know that we will play 3 rounds and quit, and it will take about 4 1/2 hours. Having a “get this done today” mentality really changes the whole dynamic of how the game goes, and  fatigue starts to play a part in the outcome after a few rounds. Not everyone has a room for that solution, I know. I went many years without the space.  Â

Yes it is nice to have a dedicated table for your group to finish the game right to the end. I fortunately have that opportunity too.
We are four players, and at times 5 which helps the speed.
Unfortunately, in a good way, and frustration for sure, this game really makes you think too deeply about your move because it is very critical ( as we know ), which makes it fun too, but stretches the time frame per round longer than usual.
Players who are not involved much in the game later on much due to they have nothing to do but just defend ( i.e. build on London, Build up Rome ) may get frustrated because the opponents turn taking way too long, needs the board for strategy planning at such a tense critical move taking for ever.
That 6 hour game night turns into 9 hours and just a few rounds achieved.

We have always played the OOB 1st edition order, and will play the YGH 2nd edition overlap order of play, so with 4 players this may be tricky, but will work on it. If anyone has any suggestions that’ll be great too!

The game I suppose is set up to be frustrating, and challenging at the same time especially knowing the rules inside out… which also slows down that round if no one knows the exact correct rule the player is suggesting, or has made and questioned…( can you move there or not… ).

Axix & Allies…what a game~!~

BH

[SubmersedElk]

Online I’m finding about 3 hours for 8 rounds is about the pace things go - they tend to pick up speed after round 4 or 5 or so when all the major strategic decisions are already made. US and UK first two rounds tend to be particularly slow because the allies need to craft a robust response to whatever opener the Axis are playing.

[Young Grasshopper]

@SubmersedElk:

Online I’m finding about 3 hours for 8 rounds is about the pace things go - they tend to pick up speed after round 4 or 5 or so when all the major strategic decisions are already made. US and UK first two rounds tend to be particularly slow because the allies need to craft a robust response to whatever opener the Axis are playing.

3 hours during table top games will get you 3 game rounds if you’re lucky, 4 at the very most.

[SubmersedElk]

adjudicating dice at the press of a spacebar is one hell of a convenience

[simon33]

We have one move we reckon speeds things up a fair bit (and makes it more enjoyable): Purchase & repair units doesn’t need to be finalised until the end of Combat Movement.

Often, you need to put the combat movement on the board to visualise it. This makes less and less difference the more I play but I would call it invaluable in my early days of A&A. Certainly less radical than some of the other suggestions here.

We only have 3 colours of dice and red is always the highest number. Although I can certainly see the merit in 4 colours with 15+ of each - and never deviating the number a given colour is rolling is also a plus. Two trays to allow offensive and defensive rolling simultaneously is pretty good too.

Another point is that combat movement which doesn’t involve rolling dice is generally allowed to be retrospective if forgotten (not if affected by something which has happened though). NCM can be allowed too if not affected by a declared combat move. This is open to interpretation. When I’ve played Triple-A, not being able to go back (without invoking edit mode) was a different experience.

[simon33]

@SS:

I don’t agree with any kind of charts or battle calculators being used for any of the games.  :wink:

My usual opponent thinks like this but all it does is causes a lot of time to be wasted. Pretty annoying.

[Maddog77]

@simon33:

@SS:

I don’t agree with any kind of charts or battle calculators being used for any of the games.  :wink:

My usual opponent thinks like this but all it does is causes a lot of time to be wasted. Pretty annoying.

IMHO….any good player does not need odds calculators or apps. A good and experienced player can, in a matter of seconds, sum up the chances of a possible battle. I’ve never used electronic gadgets or apps and pretty much know what my odds are of winning or losing a battle by simply LOOKING at the board and stack of units. I’ve had a few guests over the years who won’t make a move w/o “consulting” their gadgets. THAT’S annoying in my book. In my bunker game room, electronic gadgets are outlawed.  :-D

[General 6 Stars]

8-) 8-) 8-)