Naval modifications questions and ideas.


  • 2019

    @SS-GEN OMG!!! That is awesome! And you have two of these? And I thought I was a fanatical tabletop/boardgamer, lol.


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    @CrazyIvan said in Naval modifications questions and ideas.:

    @SS-GEN OMG!!! That is awesome! And you have two of these? And I thought I was a fanatical tabletop/boardgamer, lol.

    Yes 2 of them.
    Now maybe you’ll get your table done!!! lol


  • 2019

    @SS-GEN Heh heh heh, I’ll still be limited, like the Panama Canal, to a maximum size that will work in my home. I live in an apartment, and floorspace is at a premium, so even if I build one that allows it to fold up against the wall, its still going to be no more than 3’ deep, and 8’ long.

    {Suffers terminal case of “Gaming table envy”}


  • 2019

    As I understand it, the G40 map is what, 32" by 70"? So if I get that next month, it will fit, but not with any other maps being able to be setup at the same time.


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    @CrazyIvan said in Naval modifications questions and ideas.:

    @SS-GEN Heh heh heh, I’ll still be limited, like the Panama Canal, to a maximum size that will work in my home. I live in an apartment, and floorspace is at a premium, so even if I build one that allows it to fold up against the wall, its still going to be no more than 3’ deep, and 8’ long.

    {Suffers terminal case of “Gaming table envy”}

    Totally agree on the room size. Been there. 3 x 5 be good room fpr stuff and dice towers or boxes on ends.

    K gotta go. Post in morning.


  • 2019

    @SS-GEN See ya, and thanks!


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    This is what I would start with game. This is based on Cost to punch of pieces.
    Some may disagree but W E. It works in my game but I use D12 dice so its easier to get cost real close to the pieces hit value and such compared to D6 system. This is just a generic table. The Super carrier is not in game but gave a Carrier 3 figs. Non of this is based on Damages per capital ship neither.

    BB C18 A4 1.56 D4 1.56 2 hits
    H CR C10 A3 .72 D3 .72
    L CR C9 A2 .59 D2 .59
    DD C7 A1 .49 D1 .49
    SS C8 A2 .76 D1 .38 FS No Destroyer, Sub gets FS shot with no return shot.
    TR C8 A0 D1 .38 This is pretty strong defense.
    CAR C20 A1 .32 D2 .62 2 hits 3 figs.
    L Car C10 A1 .24 D1 .24 1 fig

    As you can see it will take 2 H CR to sink a BB and 3 L CR or 3 DD to sink a BB.
    Sub is always strong on A for Surprise Strike.


  • 2019

    I did a combined table, along with extrapolations of bigger carriers and battleships.

    Ship Type COST ATT DEF MOVE HTK NOTES
    TR 8 0 1 2 1
    SS 8 2 2 2 1
    DD 6 1 1 2 1
    CL 12 2 2 2 2
    CA 18 3 3 2 3
    BB 24 4 4 2 4
    SB 30 5 5 2 5 *
    JN 36 6 6 2 6 **
    CVL 9 1 1 2 1 1
    CV 18 2 2 2 2 2
    CVA 27 3 3 2 3 3***
    SCVA 36 4 4 2 4 4****

    I’m really tired right now, so probably not thinking to clearly at the moment.

    • The Super Battleship
      ** The Juggernaut, the ultimate for Fleet core defense.
      *** The CVA is a more advanced carrier.
      **** The Super CVA is the ultimate carrier.

    And now I am really needing some sleep…


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    The issue I have is with all the hits ships can take.


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    May still work. Give me some time. Do the ships that take hits get to A and D at same values when damaged ?
    I’m saying does a 3 damaged BB still A and D at 4 ?


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    Just need an answer to last post. Then I don’t need to look at 2 huge charts


  • 2019

    @SS-GEN said in Naval modifications questions and ideas.:

    The issue I have is with all the hits ships can take.

    Yeah, I’m trying to make the navies a bit tougher a customer, but not sure that I’m not over doing it.

    @SS-GEN said in Naval modifications questions and ideas.:

    May still work. Give me some time. Do the ships that take hits get to A and D at same values when damaged ?
    I’m saying does a 3 damaged BB still A and D at 4 ?

    I’m not sure, didn’t have a chance to work on this last night, and been up all night trying to find my wallet. Just got called by my lyft driver, he has the wallet, and on his way to return it, now I can sleep! Or at least, once I get the wallet back.


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    Oh boy. I will post 2 charts with dam ships keeping same A D and one with AD dropping 1 number per damage.
    Remember for the money cost some ships you have listed will never be bought


  • 2019

    Right now, I’m struggling to stay awake long enough to get my wallet back, So I cannot really think straight. After work tonight, I’m going to try to run through some combat situations and see how they work.

    I’m hoping that air forces cannot just wipe out navies with impunity, but also don’t intend to make navies invencible, either.


  • 2019

    @SS-GEN Right now, the only game I’m getting to play is TripleA’s version of classic against computers, and they almost never buy BB, except the USA, and that might just because I have the setting turned on for 2 hit BB and auto repair at start of turn.


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    @CrazyIvan said in Naval modifications questions and ideas.:

    Right now, I’m struggling to stay awake long enough to get my wallet back, So I cannot really think straight. After work tonight, I’m going to try to run through some combat situations and see how they work.

    I’m hoping that air forces cannot just wipe out navies with impunity, but also don’t intend to make navies invencible, either.

    Ya ok. Another thing. You should only have carriers and Transports getting hits on planes only. Also u can add in cruisers get plane shots to
    If you want. Good night. Talk soon


  • 2020 2019 2018

    @CrazyIvan maybe get one of those biker wallets that’s chained to ya 🙂

    JKiding : ) You seem to be having fun 👍


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    @barnee said in Naval modifications questions and ideas.:

    @CrazyIvan maybe get one of those biker wallets that’s chained to ya 🙂

    JKiding : ) You seem to be having fun 👍

    👍


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    @CrazyIvan said in Naval modifications questions and ideas.:

    I did a combined table, along with extrapolations of bigger carriers and battleships.

    Ship Type COST ATT DEF MOVE HTK NOTES
    TR 8 0 1 .38 2 1
    SS 8 2 .75 2 .75 2 1
    DD 6 1 .67 1 .67 2 1
    CL 12 2 .66 2 .66 2 2
    CA 18 3 .66 3 .66 2 3
    BB 24 4 3.16 4 3.16 2 4
    SB 30 5 4.85 5 4.85 2 5 *
    JN 36 6 6.36 6 6.36 2 6 **
    CVL 9 1 .30 1 .30 2 1 1
    CV 18 2 .30 2 .30 2 2 2
    CVA 27 3 2.52 3 2.52 2 3 3***
    SCVA 36 4 3.52 4 3.52 2 4 4****

    I’m really tired right now, so probably not thinking to clearly at the moment.

    • The Super Battleship
      ** The Juggernaut, the ultimate for Fleet core defense.
      *** The CVA is a more advanced carrier.
      **** The Super CVA is the ultimate carrier.

    And now I am really needing some sleep…

    Decimal number to right of A D value. This is with ships with damage but not reducing the A D value.
    Good Luck.


  • 2019

    @SS-GEN While I’m see the numbers that you have provided, I have to admit that I still don’t know what they are nor what they mean? Could you provide a single case for how you arrived at these numbers, and what they mean?

    I’m thinking that this is somehow related to cost, and perhaps, something like “Bang for your Buck”, but as I don’t know the process, I cannot really comment on it.

    Let me do this, let’s take a classic board and give it various setups, starting with normal ships, using normal values. Classic only has 4 ship types, so to include all these, we should probably use two seperate battles, the Russian attack on the German Baltic fleet, and the Japanese attack on Hawaiian island sea zone.

    Battle of the Baltic:

    R1 Baltic TR SS DD CL CA BB CVL CV F B TOTAL LL MAD RESULTS
    Attacker Forces 1@O 1@2 2@3 8 1 + 1-2/D6 We can use this space to input any possible result on a d6
    Defender Forces 1@1 1@2 3 0 + 1-3/D6 and use this number against both force’s remainders

    So this is a simple situation, and for now, lets ignore the sub first shot attack. We wouldn’t do that in an actual game, but this is just an example for demonstrating a concept, and I want to focus on that concept alone for right now. For purposes of MAD, we only consider a forces remainder, rather then total strength, and so for our purposes the defenders remainder of three is used on the single roll, so that, either way, the defender is going to take one casualty for sure, but if it takes that second hit on a 2 of less, they will automatically hit once, themselves.

    Now let’s look at this second hit as a submarine first shot attack! Say the roll is a one, the results are as stated above, but now let’s look at what happens when the roll was a two. In both cases, with a MAD roll of 1 or 2, the defender has to take one ship off, and this ship does not get to fire back, and as AcesWild5049 pointed out elsewhere, if we ‘roll by column’ then the sub would be fired first, and if we ‘rolled the sub first’ by explicit rule, then that has to be decided before the rest of the attackers fire is accounted for.

    So, if the defender choose to lose the TR to the sub, then it cannot fire back, and as his sub cannot hit air, then that is something to keep in mind for later/larger battles. If the Defender instead chooses to lose the SS to the attackers sub, then the situation changes. After the sub’s attack, the defender is going to have just one unit left to fire. If the sub is chosen, then the remainder drops to a ‘1’, and if a two had been the MAD roll, the defender wouldn’t hit on a ‘2’, and so both defending ships would be lost, without cost to the attacker.

    In the above example, let’s say the MAD roll was a three. The attacking force, with a remainder of ‘2’ would miss, and the defending player would score 1 hit and combat would end after the next round, as the fighters would get an automatic kill at that point.

    On a quick diversion, let’s visit a slightly different attack:

    R1 Baltic TR SS DD CL CA BB CVL CV F B TOTAL LL MAD RESULTS
    Attacker Forces 1@2 2@3 8 1 + 1-2/D6 We can use this space to input any possible result on a d6
    Defender Forces 1@1 1@2 3 0 + 1-3/D6 and use this number against both force’s remainders

    In this attack, the more discerning player sees a chance to pull off a fast one, and simply doesn’t bring his TR at all.

    Tell me why, and how this potentially helps the attacker?

    Ok, so back to the ‘Battle for the Baltic’
    Historically, the Axis had control of/use of most of the Baltic for most of the duration of WWII, and most certainly in the spring of 1942, when A&A Classic starts off. One of my suggestions for attempting to ‘balance’ classic against an early curb-stomping of Germany, is to put a German BB into the Baltic {Historically, the Tirpitz was operational in Jan, 1942}, and as the map doesn’t allow for her do be stationed in a Norwegian fordje, then we have to have her in the Baltic sea zone.

    I’ll need to do this in three seperate tables, I think…

    R1 Baltic TR SS DD CL CA BB CVL CV F B TOTAL LL MAD RESULTS
    Attacker Forces 1@0 1@2 2@3 8 1 + 1-2/D6 We can use this space to input any possible result on a d6
    Defender Forces 1@1 1@2 1@4 1 htk 7 1 + 1/D6 and use this number against both force’s remainders

    So, for all three examples, and without any insights gained from thinking this through, let us just assume the Russian player is going to carry out this attack, irregardless of losses and probabilities. How does having a German BB, with just 1 ‘hit to kill’ {As per Classic rules} change things? I don’t want to do the ‘sub shot’ specific in each and every example, so from now on I won’t treat it as anything other than an ordinary dice roll, for purposes of discussion. Now the attacking and defending forces are much more evenly balanced, as both sides are getting an automatic kill on the first round, and to speed this up, lets just make a ‘convenience rule of thumb’, where remainders of ‘1-2’ always miss, ‘3-4’ can be hits, and ‘5’ always hit. So in this first round, both sides hit each other once, and then on the second round, after losses, both sides hit each other again one time, and this leaves us 1 German BB vs 2 Russian fighters, so the BB is going to likely take one fighter out, but is definitely dead itself. While that is an improvement over how the R1 turn normally plays out, it still reflects an ahistorical situation, where Germany has no fleet in early 1942. As we all know, the Tirpitz didn’t finally end until late 1944, and that means something like late turn 6 of a 7 turn game, with D-Day taking place in late turn 5. So, how better to give Germany a core to build a fleet around?

    Post classic, at some point the ‘two hit Battleship’ came into the picture, so let us next do that.

    R1 Baltic TR SS DD CL CA BB CVL CV F B TOTAL LL MAD RESULTS
    Attacker Forces 1@0 1@2 2@3 8 1 + 1-2/D6 We can use this space to input any possible result on a d6
    Defender Forces 1@1 1@2 1@4 2 htk 7 1 + 1/D6 and use this number against both force’s remainders

    Ok, everything above starts off the same, and the only real difference is going to be hat both forces are going to be just as deadly in round two, because the Defending BB can now soak that first hit, and so the Russian TR is killed and the German BB eats the first hit, the second round, neither side scores more than a single hit, and so now the Russian sub and German TR bite the farm. At this point, BOTH side retain the ability to get 1 hit guaranteed, and this means a russian fighter dies, and so does the German sub. With even odds, the damaged BB and the remaining fighter could go either way, but odds are, if the remaining fighter doesn’t kill it, the UK player will.

    Germany actually gets a turn, and could use their BB, or build more bullet stopper SS/TR, to try and keep it alive. For simplicity’s sake, let’s say we are going with the auto repair in TripleA, where damaged ships get repaired for free, at the start of a players turn. While in actual play this may not be the methodology in use, it is easier by far to muddle through this concept. That leaves us, with a fully repaired BB in the baltic, in time for combat movement on G1.

    For simplicity’s sake, let’s just assume that the German player does nothing with the Baltic BB {However unlikely this may be} and so come the UK’s turn, they could throw an attack that would likely kill the German BB, or certainly kill the German BB, at a probable cost of a UK fighter, and a possible cost of a second fighter if things played out badly for the UK player. So we still have a Germany without a fleet, by the end of turn, B1. Better, but still not there yet.

    R1 Baltic TR SS DD CL CA BB CVL CV F B TOTAL LL MAD RESULTS
    Attacker Forces 1@0 1@2 2@3 8 1 + 1-2/D6 We can use this space to input any possible result on a d6
    Defender Forces 1@1 1@2 1@4 4 htk 7 1 + 1/D6 and use this number against both force’s remainders

    In this final chart, we finally get to see what my proposed ‘4 hit BB’ would have on game setup. First off, we can see immediately that any surviving Russian units is an extremely unlikely outcome, and that keeping the submarine is the only possible, however unlikely, way forward for the R1 attack to ‘sink the Bismarck!’ er, wait, ‘sink the Tirpitz!’☺

    Anyway, if nothing else, I think I have demonstrated that the Germans need help in the Baltic, and that a two-hit BB won’t do.

    This post started over an hour ago, and I’m tired and sleepy now, do done for the moment…


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    To much for me. Your 3 4 5 6 hit pieces I know what your doing but this not realistic. You need to change the setup for naval.

    The numbers I posted are yes cost for the punch. A ship at 6.35 and 6 hits is just to way out there. But it’s your game so nothing wrong with what you want to do. Just nobody’s gonna play with 3-6 hit ships.
    Your 12 cost cruiser you would need 7 of them at a cost of 84 icps to kill a S BB at a cost of 30 icps. There’s not even enough money in this game to even thinking about buy certain ships.
    The Bismarck and Yamamoto yes can receive 3 hits but that’s it in a game. IMO


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13

    Why don’t you just move up to AA 50 game ? Besides your playing Triplea A now


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