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Cheesy allied move



  • So on UK turn it moves a destroyer into SZ36 (where japan has lots of ships and a pair of transports) note no war yet tween japan and uk
    ANZAC next turn dow japan
    Japan next turn it cannot load the transports in 36 because the seazone is hostile (damn you allies!)


  • 2016 2015 '10

    Sometimes people leave Japanese units in the transports at the end of the turn for this reason.


  • TripleA

    Yeah this is a cheesy move. A reason to leave transports loaded.

    Keep calm and DOW J1.



  • In our group we basically house-ruled this out. We play it that Japan can still load troops from a hostile sea zone the first turn it’s at war, even if it was one of the allies who declared war the round before. (Unless all the players in the game agree ahead of time to play it strictly by the book).
    I see it as sort of a rules exploit, an unintentional thing from how the rules got written. Usually only the most serious rules readers will ever figure this out, and not allowing it makes the game more friendly for new players playing Japan. Otherwise they might never come back.



  • Its a stupid rule. Not even in the real war could a single Destroyer deny a fleet of hundreds of ships to embark soldiers from a port. Its like a battalion of Marines would not dare to embark a Tranny in Los Angeles because a Japanese destroyer was spotted 200 miles off the West coast, and the Marines did not have faith in that the hundreds of Battleships, Cruisers, Fleet Carries with hundreds of planes, Destroyers etc were able to protect the Port of LA.

    derogatory bedlam, fix with house rules


  • TripleA

    I do not know what you guys are talking about, Japan starts the game at war.


  • Customizer

    @Cow:

    I do not know what you guys are talking about, Japan starts the game at war.

    Japan only starts the game at war with China. Not UK, ANZAC or the US. Therefore, Japanese, British, Australian and American ships can share a sea zone until a declaration of war is made.

    By the way, I thought that was one exception to the “cannot load transports in a hostile sea zone rule”. If you have transports in a sea zone and it becomes hostile by another power declaring war on you, that one time you may still load your transports. For the rest of the game you can not load in hostile sea zones.


  • 2015

    Cow is just stating his preference for J1 DOW.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Moderator

    Morning Knp. That rule about loading transports is only relevant to the power who has just DW in its turn. Not other powers in their prior turns. In this scenario, Is now too late for Japan to do it.


  • 2015

    I’m not convinced the move is all that good of one, anyway.  It lets Japan start picking away at the British and Anzac, whihc keeping the USA tied down and letting Japan collect that +10 NO.  A very risky move on the part of ANZAC to do it.



  • @wittmann:

    Morning Knp. That rule about loading transports is only relevant to the power who has just DW in its turn. Not other powers in their prior turns. In this scenario, Is now too late for Japan to do it.

    If ANZAC dow then Japan is at war with both ANZAC and UK…So the UK destroyer, now makes the sz hostile and prevents Japan from loading in that sz.

    @Shin:

    I’m not convinced the move is all that good of one, anyway.  It lets Japan start picking away at the British and Anzac, whihc keeping the USA tied down and letting Japan collect that +10 NO.  A very risky move on the part of ANZAC to do it.

    If the move completely denies the DEI and Malaya to Japan for an entire turn it could be well worth it, as UK and ANZAC likely have them this is a rather large income swing. ANZAC 5 IPC objective for Malaya, Japan 5 IPC objective for the DEI. Could come out to around a 18-28 IPC swing. If its round 2 and Japan is denied until round 3, Japan will dow round 3 most likely anyways to get the first shot in before USA enters, and at least deny USA 7 IPCs for the Philippines.


  • Customizer

    @wittmann:

    Morning Knp. That rule about loading transports is only relevant to the power who has just DW in its turn. Not other powers in their prior turns. In this scenario, Is now too late for Japan to do it.

    Okay Wittmann, I think you are right. I found the rule under “Declaring War” on page 12 of the Europe 1940 2nd edition rule book and page 11 of the Pacific 1940 2nd edition rule book. Here is what it says:
    During your Combat Move phase in which you entered into a state of war, your transports that are already in sea zones that have just become hostile may be loaded in those sea zones (but not in other hostile sea zones). In effect, transports may be loaded in their initial sea zones for amphibious assaults before war is declared, while the sea zone is still friendly. I actually had to read this 2 or 3 times before it sank in. So basically, when YOU declare war on another power, you can load your transports in a hostile sea zone because it’s suggesting that you actually loaded them before declaring war, while the sea zone was still friendly, in anticipation of a war time status. Almost like a sneak attack.
    However, the power that is declared on can not load transports until it’s Combat Move phase, by which time the sea zone is already hostile at the beginning of their turn, thus forcing you to first sink the enemy ships and wait until next turn to load transports, which I guess would be the whole objective of this move in the first place.


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Moderator

    That is it. I apologise if I was not totally clear in my brief explanation yesterday.
    Hope you have been well.



  • @Uncrustable:

    @wittmann:

    Morning Knp. That rule about loading transports is only relevant to the power who has just DW in its turn. Not other powers in their prior turns. In this scenario, Is now too late for Japan to do it.

    If ANZAC dow then Japan is at war with both ANZAC and UK…So the UK destroyer, now makes the sz hostile and prevents Japan from loading in that sz.

    @Shin:

    I’m not convinced the move is all that good of one, anyway.  It lets Japan start picking away at the British and Anzac, whihc keeping the USA tied down and letting Japan collect that +10 NO.  A very risky move on the part of ANZAC to do it.

    If the move completely denies the DEI and Malaya to Japan for an entire turn it could be well worth it, as UK and ANZAC likely have them this is a rather large income swing. ANZAC 5 IPC objective for Malaya, Japan 5 IPC objective for the DEI. Could come out to around a 18-28 IPC swing. If its round 2 and Japan is denied until round 3, Japan will dow round 3 most likely anyways to get the first shot in before USA enters, and at least deny USA 7 IPCs for the Philippines.

    The problem you aren’t seeing is that Japan can easily put 2 subs off borneo, a fleet off of Malaya, and a fleet off of East Indies so that UK will get convoyed for most of her money. Japan still would be able to get Kwangtung, and set up for a take of all 4 Islands and Malaya turn 3. A good Japan player should have one transport in sea zone 20 that could take Borneo or Malaya on turn 2 anyways.



  • @theROCmonster:

    The problem you aren’t seeing is that Japan can easily put 2 subs off borneo, a fleet off of Malaya, and a fleet off of East Indies so that UK will get convoyed for most of her money. Japan still would be able to get Kwangtung, and set up for a take of all 4 Islands and Malaya turn 3. A good Japan player should have one transport in sea zone 20 that could take Borneo or Malaya on turn 2 anyways.

    You’re forgetting that UK is not at war with Japan on it’s turn.  Japan won’t get any convoy disruptions, but neither do the UK get any NO money.  ANZAC will, though.  Unless you’re talking about the next turn, when Japan should be declaring war regardless.

    We had this happen to us once in a game.  We were more than happy to leave the US alone and crush the British.  It delays the takeover of the DEI for a turn, but it’s worth not having to deal with the US until at least Turn 4.

    The problem for the allies is not how to harass Japan, but how to hold the victory cities long enough to take Germany down.  Not sure this is very effective to that end.  Pain in the behind does not equal victory.


  • 2015

    I’ve tried this cheesy move two or three times, and barring the best possible situation (Japan has 4 unloaded transports you can deny them, and they DOW next round anyway to get the Philippines), it’s more a hindrance than a help to the Allies.  I don’t think I’ll be using it in the future.


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