Veqryn, in the Global1940 2nd Ed. FAQ thread, the following issue came to my attention:
sub destroyer…. vs sub destroyer…
Do attacker and defender subs always roll first? Makes sense to me because subs can only hit naval. However if the defender sub hits the attacker has to figure out what he wants to lose, he would still roll it to attack but he has to figure out what he loses before the rest of the dice gets rolled.
What is the official ruling kreig?
A sub and destroyer against a sub and a destroyer:
Neither sub has surprise strike capability because of opposing destroyers present.
General Combat Sequence
1. Place units along the battle strip
2. Submarine surprise strike or submerge
3. Attacking units fire (and defender must choose casualties)
4. Defending units fire (attacker chooses casualties and removes them)
5. Remove defender’s casualties
6. Press attack or retreat
7. Conclude combat
This is straight from the rulebook. Obviously since the subs do not have surprise strike or submerge capabilities, you would skip step 2.
So the answer to your question is NO the subs do not always roll first.
Triple A does this dead wrong. Is that why you’re wondering? The attacker should NEVER have to choose casualties before seeing his own attack roll when he has destroyers present to nullify the defending subs’ surprise strikes.
You might have to roll out such battles using the forum dice roller and use edit mode to force the correct results in TripleA.
I had that happen to me in a recent G1. Destroyer, cruiser, bomber vs. 2 subs. Triple A makes you choose casualties before you see how many hits you score. This is wrong. The attacker does not choose casualties until step 4, and gets to see his attack roll in step 3.
If you are already aware of it don’t continue reading. If not please continue reading.
The problem is that in TripleA subs always roll at first - even if there are destroyers present cancelling the surprise strike ability.
Forcing either side to take out hits scored by subs is not correct - as subs roll together with other warships then and casualties should not be taken after all rolls are done.
I attached an image to illustrate the issue. In this case Germany is forced to take out a unit not knowing if the German destroyer will hit.
The attacker’s choice what to take out would be dependent on the defender’s choice. And the defender - according to the rules - has to choose at first.
According to the rules the German submarine and destroyer would shoot together. UK chooses casualties and fires back (sub+des). Germany chooses casualties.
Do we have to live with that issue or can this be corrected in TripleA?