Germany in Africa

[calvinhobbesliker]

@Argothair:

Right, Bulgaria is only worth 1 IPC, but with a minor factory there, you should still be able to build 3 units per turn there. Also, yes, this would be part of a neutral crush strategy. You have to conquer Turkey to get out of the Black Sea and into Egypt. On the bright side, this keeps Britain from attacking your fleet with boats until you’re ready for it to launch – the same Turks that keep you bottled in also keep the UK sealed out.

You can only build a minor factory in territories worth at least 2 IPCs.

[Argothair]

My mistake – I was looking at the Europe 1940 rules, and didn’t see the 2 iPC restriction.

[aequitas-et-veritas]

@ItIsILeClerc:

But whatever is decided, Germany must recognize that they should not focus too much on Africa, because Russia is the main enemy and it must be isolated at least. I think Germany can safely invest between 30 and 40IPCs in ships without loosing its ability to force Russia to retreat into Moscow. Taking Moscow early would be a bridge too far with so many ships built, but after turn 12 or so, this can still become an option again if the axis isolated Russia effectively enough (taking Russian economy down to <15IPCS/turn), without loosing the power advantage.

30 to 40 IPC’s?
That’s a Carrier plus 2x TT’s and a DD combined with Ita Fleet an nice matchup.
So you should get 4 Units over to Egypt every other turn and you should be a nice threat.

[ItIsILeClerc]

Imagine Germany builds a CV + 2TRS in SF, combining with a leftover Italian BB + DD + TRS. This is a huge threat to both Gibraltar and Egypt, because now the German Luftwaffe suddenly has 4 extra units as fodder, and Italy can move its fleet about without fear of loosing it (Germans follow). I learned that if Germany invests only 30-40IPCs in ships, with the rest of its money being used for land units, it is still more than capable to isolate Russia, even without much of their Luftwaffe.

So this is bad news for Africa and/or the Wallies trying to do something meaningful in the Atlantic.
The downside of this axis strategy is that Gemany is indeed putting a large enough focus on Africa so it must take it slow in Russia. They also cannot survive an early US Intervention of any kind so Japan must be able to wait -no J1DOW, no J2DOW and possibly even no J3DOW as well (they can get medieval on Russia and China in the mean time).

An axis game moving along these paths typically evolves into a very long and dragging economical game and will work if the USA has invested/moved into Atlantic positions first turn. Don’t know how well it can fare against a Pacific first focus of the USA (yet).

[The Hessian]

“Leftover Italian BB”? If there are more naval units left over at the beginning of the Italian 1st turn other than the ones starting in SZ95, there is something going wrong…

[aequitas-et-veritas]

@The:

“Leftover Italian BB”? If there are more naval units left over at the beginning of the Italian 1st turn other than the ones starting in SZ95, there is something going wrong…

A lot of Player do not allways perform a Bri 1 Taranto raid as an opener.
Instead they will go for a “saving Egypt run” or a Gibraltar teaparty  :-D.
Or the dice went horribly bad.

[calvinhobbesliker]

The Taranto raid is how Egypt is saved.

[ItIsILeClerc]

I wrote that down too quickly!
I actually did assume ‘Taranto’ so I meant Italian cruiser ;-). You know, the contents of SZ95.

But I agree with Aequitas nonetheless.

Sometimes, depending on the plan I have in my head for the allies for that moment, I also do not go for ‘Taranto’. For example if London ‘scrambles’ to clear the Atlantic of all German warships (both literally in GE1 and also using the leftover air for that during UK1).

If not going for ‘Taranto’, I personally consider ‘Tobruk’, the ‘Gibraltar tea party’ and the run for Egypt Aequitas mentioned all good/valid alternatives to ‘Taranto’. All depending on the overall situation, of course. Some tactics just work better with some strategies and other tactics with other strategies ;-). For simplicity’s sake I am assuming no bid as well.

[Jennifer]

If England does NOT go Taranto, and Germany took Viche France (S. France) on round 1, wouldn’t it be wiser to block the Suez and then consolidate your warships south of France, have the Germans build a small fleet there (ahem small fleet would be like 1 transport, 2 capitol ships, preferably carriers for support) and lock the Med down for the Italians in perpetuity?

Or was that already raised (cause I am not going back to read 3 pages of text right now.)

It also sets the Germans up to reinforce N. Africa and potentially get that NO for troops in Egypt.

IMHO, take it as you will, that virtually forces the Americans to focus N. Africa first giving Japan a bit more leeway to focus on the SW Pacific where the money is - perhaps even popping Australia or India itself as well, if opportunity presents.

[aequitas-et-veritas]

@calvinhobbesliker:

The Taranto raid is how Egypt is saved.

The Taranto raid is Bhanta fodder for German Luftwaffe so that they have a task instead of a buy in round two.
Of course is it convenient to sink Italys Navy Round one and has definitly it’s advantage to it.
But to me it is allways a 50/50 thing, and I rather block and wait for my UK pac ships to reenforce and build an AB and a IC the following rounds.

To me the Taranto raid is not a garant for saving egypt.
You my convince me otherwise.

[GODLEADER]

The real afrika corps in the scale of this game is one tank…

[Dafyd]

There are alot of great ideas here.  I loke to have the German player take Southern France just so that they can build transports in the Med.  Having a couple of ground units in and Italian Cairo is a great plus.  The So. Franch Transport can get them there easily enough once the Italians have cleared the Med of the allies.  Have Italy build an air base on Gibralter and land German planes there.  Helps defend the Med and gets German ground units to North Africa to help defend.

[Dafyd]

I had to jump away in the middle of my last post.  Imagine having to take of customers while at work.  THERE ARE WARS TO BE WON!  I’m sorry…I digress.  Africa is not Germany’s focus but if the war is going well in Russia and western Europe is being secured, Italy could use the help and getting German fighters in an axis-heald Gibralter can help make it a little tougher for the allies to find weak points to make a secure landing.

[Jennifer]

Not saying focus, but a few units here or there by Germany could really help Italy out…just as having Italian units take territory in Russia so Germany can reinforce with planes can be a godsend for the Germans.

[aequitas-et-veritas]

Under the line.

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Spending arround 30 to 40 Ipc’s for German navy in the Med. to not only ship men to Egypt, but provide savety and stronger Axis presence in Africa is after all a good and solid Strategy.
The things changed since then and today is that players love the flexibilty here and there but still in focus of the primary Goal.

Beat Russia

[ghr2]

The only issue is that it takes time for the axis to make up for that type of investment into the med.  Russia will have a few turns of relief before UK’s hold on Egypt and the med collapses.  It is too hard to tell if the German med strategy is truly viable.

[SJS063]

If Germany got involved in Africa, my thoughts are this:

1. just as in ww2, this could be another slippery slope for the axis because it would cause Germany to divert men from other fronts, or from being purchased for other fronts, which in the long run could have an effect on the German war machine. My question is, is possible victory for the small number of IPCs actually in Africa worth the diversion of troops?

2. my second thought is that Germany would have to create shipping lanes from S.France or Yugo, which could actually increase the importance of islands like Malta, Crete, or Cyprus, which actually seems kinda fun, considering that at least in my games, besides Malta early on, these islands prove to be worthless

[Jennifer]

Re: Malta - I like to hit Malta with the Italians because it negates the British NO for virtually the rest of the game.  It’s also so central in the Med that it’s too easy for England to snipe in, hit something and land there - something I might generally over look.

Re: Germany in Egypt - If I can use an Italian transport to shuck 1 Inf, 1 Arm into Egpyt with Germany, as just extra defense I will.  Takes longer, but saves building a transport and having to defend it.  Unless you are going HEAVY anti-England (i.e. thinking of Sea Lion and or waiting on Russia until the last second while focusing on removing England’s teeth and keeping them removed.)  In which case, I am going to want a German fleet in the Med so that the Italian fleet can move along the Middle East Coast and/or Eastern Africa coast for money grabs.  This is more in an effort of Japan winning in the Pacific instead of Europe winning, which, IMNSHO isn’t a decision you wanna make Round 1 anyway (I like to see where the dice fall on Round 1 before picking a campaign strategy.  Let’s me know what I have for Round 2 on the board and you can usually pick up what the Allies plan to attack first by where they move and build.)

Keep in mind, just because the allies do something, or your dice tell you something, does not mean you have to be locked into your campaign options!  Never let a good disaster for your enemy go to waste!

[aequitas-et-veritas]

Very good cmdr Jen.