Americas fleet attacks Germany

Very late to the party here but I don’t think I’ve ever seen a J4 take down of India in about 200 games played. I can’t see the model which allows it. If you miss the J3 window, which the allies might be able to close with a UK1 Burma stack, you’re talking about a J5 attack, assuming a J1 DOW. J5 all the Japanese coastal troops from Jehol to Kwangsi are in range walking overland. That’ll kill anyone barring ridiculous dice or Axis stuff ups.

I’m not completely sure of the distinction between J3 and J4 other than 2-3 extra inf on India but maybe that small number of inf really does change things. Probably does given that you’re normally losing planes to take India down J3 if it isn’t evacuated.

I’d only just discovered these rules like a day before this thread popped up.  My buddy and I started a game on AAA a while ago to prep for our FtF this weekend:

https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=41587.0

This would seem to be a counterpoint to the UK/ANZAC 2 DoW.  I was doing some goofy stuff in Europe but basically a G4 Sealion is coming.  I’ve got a US Atlantic Navy ready for London Calling which would have moved to sz102 but now there’s an interesting conundrum.

If my buddy does a J3 DoW that lets my US forces retake Gibraltar and to stage my UK fighters and STB there.  If he doesn’t J3 that’s another whole turn where he isn’t taking Money Islands or India (he’s been content to take SFE and China but I suspect an ANZAC crush coming on – he likes to do them).

So not doing the DoW I think I’m in a slightly better position (although still horrible position overall).

6 inf 1 fighter is more common, as has been said elsewhere. It’s still strong enough on its own, and the fighter is far more flexible, especially UK 3+.

I only see/do 9 inf buys when Germany buys transports (plural) on G1, or if you’re super paranoid and Germany saves 30 G1.

And it would be possible as well. Most times when Japan attacks round 1, it involves all the ships leaving SZ 6 and all the planes leaving Japan, so there would be nothing to defend those shiny new transports.

@Der:

And in a case like this, is it better to come out and attack the surrounding territories with minimal forces to get them away from Moscow, or just hunker down and buy more infantry?

if you know have enough forces to hold moscow for a few rounds then attack away.
if you are preparing for the capitulation of moscow then use those 4 ussr planes to kill german units. you can trade 1ussr inf for 1ger tank, which will help for the eventual battle of moscow.

thanks again

@Jeff28:

How is your IPC income during this strategy Spendo?

Do you have another partial fleet running round the money islands?

Are you building factories on the mainland?

Note this is NOT a J1 attack, but a J4 attack

J1 (26 IPC starting)
Buy Naval Base (15) - Placed on Hainan and not Formosa (like I think I said earlier)
Buy 1 Artillery (4)
Buy 1 Trn (7)
IPC Remaining (0)

Load Trn in SZ19 with 1 Inf, 1 Art from Manchuria. Drop off at Kwangsi
Load Trn in SZ6 with 1 Inf, 1 Art from Japan.  Drop off at Kwangsi
Move Trn in SZ20 to SZ6
Move entire fleet into SZ36
Move Manchuria Units into Jehol (5 Inf, 1 Mech)
Move 4 Inf from Korea into Manchuria
Leave Caroline Islands Fleet alone

Take Chahar (1) Anhwe (1) Hunan (1) Yunnan (1) = +4 IPC
Stay Neutral = +10 IPC
J1 Collect (26 + 10 + 4) + IPC Remaining (0) = 40 IPC

J2 (40 IPC to Spend)
Buy 3 Inf (9)
Buy 2 Art (8)
Buy 2 Trn (14)
IPC Remaining (9)

Load 1 Trn in SZ6 with 1 Inf, 1 Tank from Japan.  Drop off at Kwangsi
Load 1 Trn in SZ6 with 1 Inf, 1 Art from Japan.  Drop off at Kwangsi
Move 1 Trn from SZ36 to SZ6.  Pick up the Inf in Okinawa
Move 1 Trn from SZ36 to SZ19.  Pick up 2 Inf from Manchuria
Move 5 Inf from Jehol to Anhwe
Move 2 Inf from Manchuria into Jehol
(Moved the Mech Inf from Jehol to Suiyuyan’s attack)
Keep both fleets in position

If I did my math right, after unit placement Japan is holding 3 purchased Inf, 3 purchased Art.  Its +1 from the pickup at Okinawa and has moved 3 of its original Inf to have 3 of its original remaining.  Thats a total of 4 Inf + 3 Purchased + 3 Art.  It has 2 Trn just purchased and placed, plus 1 that moved in from SZ36 for a total of 3 Trn in SZ6 ending J2.

Take Suiyuyan (1) Hopei (1) Kweichow (1) = +3 IPC
Retake Yunnan (0) Because already counted from J1
Neutral NO = +10 IPC
IPC not lost from J1 = +4 IPC
J2 Collect (26 + 10 + 4 + 3) IPC + Remaining IPC (9) = 52 IPC

J3 (52 IPC to Spend)
Buy 1 AC (16)
Buy 1 TacB (11)
Buy 1 Ftr (10)
Buy 2 Subs (12)
Buy 1 Inf
Remaining IPC (0)

Move 1 Trn from SZ19 to SZ20.  Drop off 2 Inf at Kiangsi
Move 1 Trn from SZ36 to SZ6
Move 1 Trn from SZ6 to SZ19, pick up 2 Inf.  Drop off at Kiangsi
Move 5 Inf from Anhwe to Kweichow
Move 1 Inf from Shensi to Tsinghai
Move entire Fleet in SZ36 to SZ33
Fly 2 StratB from Mainland to Caroline Islands

Take Kansu (1) Shensi (1) = +2 IPC (need one more turn for units to get down from Manchuria/Korea into Kweichow to take Szechwan and China’s Fighter.
Retake Yunnan (0) But may not have to depending on how China fares on its J2 attack
Neutral NO = +10 PIC
IPC not lost from J1 = +4 IPC
IPC not lost from J2 = +3 IPC
J3 Collect (26 + 10 + 4 + 3 + 2) + Remaining IPC (1) = 46 IPC

J4 (46 IPC to spend)
Buy 4 Destroyers (32)
Buy 2 Inf (6)
Buy 2 Art (8)
Remaining IPC (0)

Take FIC (2) Kwangtung (3) Sikang (1) Szechwan (1) = +7 IPC
IPC not lost from J1-J3 = +9 IPC
NO: Hold Honolulu = +5 IPC
J4 Collect (26 + 9 + 7 + 5) + Remaining IPC (0) = 47 IPC

Move 2 Trn from SZ20 to SZ6
Move all remaining units towards Yuunan.  The English are coming!

Send the entire kitchen sink from Caroline / Japan against Hawaii.

Just for clarity, Japan brings against Hawaii:
4 Subs
4 Destroyers
2 Cruisers
2 Battleships
4 Fighters
4 TacB’s
2 StratB’s

USA fields:
1 Sub
2 Destroyers
2 Cruisers
1(3) Battleship
1(3) AC
1(2) Fighter (AC)
1 TacB (AC)
2(3) Fighters (Scramble from Hawaii)

Add in 2 Battleships (U1/U2), 2 AC(U1/U2), 1 Fighter from W.USA, 1 Fighter flown in from the Philippines.  USA2 could also opt to purchase a fighter instead of a second AC (likely) with their remaining 16 IPC.  Placement of that Fighter is essential as is the decision where that fighter in Eastern US ends up.  Both those fighters show up in Hawaii, you’re in for a fight to the death in Hawaii.

USA3 Purchases will never make it to Hawaii in time, but can counter so take note of that.  If USA has more than 6 fighters on/around Hawaii, this attack is a 50-50 shot.  With 6 or less, your looking at 85% odds of winning.  USA starts with 3 fighters already there.  Western US is the 4th, the Philippines is the 5th, USA2 Purchase is the 6th.  However, if Italy/Germany stage at SZ91 and put the threat on Eastern US at the end of G3 - USA cannot ignore it and you’ll ensure fighters/ships are finding their way headed to Eastern USA and not the Pacific on a USA3 purchase / non-combat moves.

Amphibious Assault constitutes 4 Trn loaded with 5 Inf and 3 Art from SZ6.  Unless the US is buying transports and/or moving units from Eastern US into Western to ferry across the most ground units on Hawaii are 4 Inf, 1 Mech, 1 Art.  You have a 83% chance of winning this battle, losing probably 4 Inf.

Drawbacks:

You leave yourself bare in the pacific for Anzac to have fun with your islands.  
You never touched India-UK’s fleet.
You WILL lose ships in the Hawaii attack.  Chances are you walk away with 2 damaged Battleships, maybe 2 fighters and you moved in 4 AC.  I had one very good roll where I survived with 3 fighters and 1 TacB plus the aforementioned ships but I absolutely killed USA on the second round of rolls.

You have 4 Destroyers, 2 Trn in SZ6 off Japan ending J4.  Just enough to go straight after the Philippines if you so choose.  Those 4 Destroyers can also move their way straight to Hawaii to protect against a US sub purchase after J4 to protect whatever ships survived the Hawaii assault.  They also bring with them 2 Inf, 2 Art on Transports to reinforce Hawaii (or stage for a move into Western US on J6).

All the money islands are free for the Allies to take.
You’re going to lose a TON of IPC value off the board by trying to take Burma with a limited ground force and no reinforcements in sight.
The British ARE coming.

Projecting beyond this point is hazardous for my health, so I will just leave suggestions:

I think the best strategy at this point is retreating to Caroline.  Leave any surviving fighters/infantry you have there to force the US to fully commit to taking Hawaii back.  Move all Trn to Japan.  It gives you the ability to project against Anzac, or to take out whatever India-UK tries to move up the coast.  You’ll be in range of purchased fighters from Japan this way as well so you can quickly land 2 fighters, 2 TacB on your AC in any zone that the Allies go after (SZ36, SZ33, or back into Hawaii at SZ26).  With 4 Destroyers, 2 TP loaded with 2 Inf, 2 Art, and 2 repaired Battleships you’ll be able to roll 6 die for 4’s against any of the tiny fleets that are kicking up dirt in the Pacific as well as to start taking the IPC islands.  Just realize that China is a lost cause and you are just playing turtle between Burma and Yunnan.  I’d probably project myself against the Philippines as soon as possible to deny the US another 5 IPC and then start ferrying more units down into south east Asia from Japan.  Something along the lines of 2 inf, 2 Art (14), 1 Fighter/1 TacB (21) for the next few turns.

Yep, the bbs must be killed, you have to let live the UK dds

It’s possible that some players would still attack the italian fleet with the ’ llanito ’ (Gibraltar) fleet, but any survivors would be crushed by the germans, and potentially, even by the italian fleet and planes