Americas fleet attacks Germany



  • My friends and I are pretty new to Axis and Allies, we have played the original 1984 game since this past September and have probably played 7 or 8 times with mostly the same people. About a month ago I got Europe and Pacific for my birthday and I got everyone together and played a 10 hour game (I played as UK/ANZAC and lost). Since then I have read extensively through the rule books and forums to get better strategy ideas to beat my good friend who i know will be against me (he has more experience with axis and allies/ has never lost a game we have played with him). In a previous game in 1984 edition I was playing as Germany and my friend the USA and He completely ignored Japan and took his entire pacific fleet into the Atlantic to successfully land with the British and crush me by USA 4, even though Japan took out quite a chunk of the pacific for itself in the meantime it was no match for the full force of the allies bearing down on it once Germany was taken care of in what I believe is the strategy called KGF…… I am planning on being Germany in our upcoming game of global 1940 and i was wondering if such an American steamroll is possible in this game and if so how should i counter it?.. For example should I keep a strong naval presence in Atlantic to hold back any invasion attempt?..make sure to leave London alone and have axis not attack America so they cannot enter the war at all?.. or just turtle up Normandy/Holland/West Germany/Denmark with inf?


  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    Your best bet is to focus on Russia, and do not attack the Allies on J1.  Many players attack on J2, but you could wait even longer.

    Keep in mind that in G40 the Axis can win by winning only one theater.  This really discourages KGF or KJF.  If America similarly abandons the Pacific to gang up on Germany, then you need to be prepared to win with Japan.  You only need 2 of Hawaii, Sydney, or Calcutta after securing Hong Kong and the Phillipines.

    Watch his USA1 purchase and placement.  If he doesn’t build anything in the Pacific and moves any Pacific boats toward the Atlantic, you know what he’s probably doing.


  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    If you REALLY want to ramp up your play, join the G40 league on these boards and play players from around the world using the Triple A program, which you can download at tripleasourceforge.net.

    Find out how you stack up against other A&A players, and improve your game by playing people as good as you or better.  The league rankings are here:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhOB4pSke42ydEhlX0RfbGxmM3RMSHJQd083TV9JUGc#gid=0

    Anyone can join any time.  See the league section of this website.  A stickied thread has the rules for the league, listed on the oldest post.

    Ask me any questions, any time



  • Thanks for the advice Gamerman and If i ever get a less restrective schedule in the future i will consider joining a league…… however, i forgot to mention that we tried playing with VC’s but then decided that we just wanted to play world domination and we are most likely going to keep with that trend in our next game… with that in mind that Japan going Bezerk in the pacific doesn’t necessarily mean the Axis win would you recommend anything different?


  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    Hmmmmm

    In that case you should crush India and China and if you can, North Russia too with Japan
    Focus on India and Moscow - you should be able to get them both by round 6-8 and get all the NO’s from Leningrad, Moscow, Stalingrad, Caucasus, NW Persia, Persia, Iraq

    If you can take Moscow and Calcutta by round 6-8 and remember that all else is secondary, I don’t think USA can stop you and I don’t think it will matter what the USA is doing in Europe.
    This is my strategy if USA is going heavily towards Europe and you are ignoring VC’s
    If USA actually goes after Japan, then this changes, of course

    Also, my earlier strategy was solely for a 2nd edition game according to the rules, 6 or 8 victory cities…
    Have fun, and maybe we’ll see you in the league some day



  • Thanks again Gamerman, i will be sure to put your advice to good use and post the outcome of my game


  • Customizer

    BluGerman,

    ––Once you and your friends gain more experience and more or less level out between all of you experience wise,…you might find that the entire game CAN depend on your maximizing your N.O.'s (bonuses) and denying your enemies his N.O.'s (bonuses). It might seem overly simplistic,…but it can really be the difference between victory or defeat. All of those N.O.'s really add up,…and can accumulate into a lot of money! Whatever you do, be as effective and efficient as possible.

    “Tall Paul”



  • thanks for the advice tall Paul 🙂


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Blu,

    The game is DESIGNED to be played with VC’s in each theater, it’s incredibly important, or the allies will win 100% of games.

    In a “world domination” game, as you say, the americans will just spend 100% one way, and the other board won’t even matter.  Then when the first board is done, even if the other side has won, he can’t face off against the economics. Ever.

    The balance is critical to keeping americans builds and forces split.  Else, like a big stack of units, their forces are exponentially more powerful.

    2 destroyers for example, on each board, is less of a problem for a player, than 4 destroyers on 1 board.  Now multiply that with battleships, aircraft carriers, transports… infantry… etc.

    DO NOT PLAY WD.  Play VC!


  • TripleA

    I spend 100% in one way all the time. It just becomes a race. Nothing wrong with racing.


  • Customizer

    If you do decide to play the world domination version, as the Allies which Axis do you go after first?


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Germany is the only threat.  Because it puts pressure on London and Moscow.

    Japan can take every territory on the pacific board except USA, and still be defeated in a WD game.


  • Customizer

    Gar,

    @Gargantua:

    Germany is the only threat.  Because it puts pressure on London and Moscow.

    Japan can take every territory on the pacific board except USA, and still be defeated in a WD game.

    ––Well said. But I wouldn’t allow the Japanese to take Hong Kong, Calcutta, and Australia.

    “Tall Paul”



  • Gargantua, i see what you are saying about VC’s and the pitfalls of playing world domination…… however, in my only game that we played of 1940 we got to the point of when the axis would have won according to the VC rules but kept going not because we wanted to make our own rules or planned to keep going before hand… but because we like to play till the last man standing… in our old games, if for example the axis have taken London and Russia we wouldn’t call game over until the axis captured the American capital and killed every remaining allied unit… furthermore the axis won in my 1940 game even while playing world domination… so in conclusion even if i layed out beforehand that we were playing VC, we would end up still playing afterwards… worst case scenario if the axis win with VC’s and then allies win the same game with world domination we will just call it a draw… your constructive criticism is well appreciated Gargantua and i will take this into account when playing my next game


  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    @Gargantua:

    Blu,

    The game is DESIGNED to be played with VC’s in each theater, it’s incredibly important, or the allies will win 100% of games.

    In a “world domination” game, as you say, the americans will just spend 100% one way, and the other board won’t even matter.� Then when the first board is done, even if the other side has won, he can’t face off against the economics. Ever.

    The balance is critical to keeping americans builds and forces split.� Else, like a big stack of units, their forces are exponentially more powerful.

    DO NOT PLAY WD.� Play VC!

    Great points.
    I still think the Axis can win WD, if they follow my strat I posted earlier.
    Keep USA out of the war, and have Japan assist in taking Russia quickly.  If you get Moscow and Calcutta by round 6-8, along with getting Middle East NO’s, you have a game.
    But Garg is right - big advantage to Allies playing WD if you don’t modify anything else.  Axis can win WD but they are quite disadvantaged.
    You see, this game is pretty well balanced when the Axis has the ability to take a tremendous amount of pressure off Europe by threatening the 6 city Pacific win.  Without this ability, the Allies have a terrific advantage.  The only possible way to deal with that advantage is probably to keep the USA out until round 4 (as long as possible) and crush Moscow and India ASAP.  Failure to do this is death.


  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    I had that all typed up when you posted, Blu

    You guys can play WD and it can work out ok, but you might need to modify the rules a bit

    Again, the game is slightly weighted toward the Axis with the VC rules in each theater.  Take that away, and I’m sure the game will be heavily weighted for the Allies.  You can compensate for that by bidding units or some other house rules



  • Gamerman, i will admit that since our USSR player was a little shaky and indecisive that he contributed to the axis win…… however, even if we had a solid Soviet player and more even teams i don’t see why the axis would need a handicap in WD…  my main reason being is that even though the VC’s don’t count towards a win in our game, almost all VC’s achieve an axis NO or hamper an Allied one (Egypt contributes to Italian NO, Leningrad/Stalingrad gets German NO, Japs getting Hong Kong can ruin Pacific UK from ever having their NO, Capitals consist of NO’s for opposing Soviet Union and Germany and for all powers ruin industry even without NO, Warsaw borders Berlin, etc.) and so even though capturing VC’s doesn’t technically contribute to a win, due to their importance they are often prioritized regardless… this is the humble opinion of a new(er) Axis and Allies player. I am sure Gamerman, Tall Paul, Gargantua, and Cow have exponentially more experience than I and I value your continued criticisms and advice and I would love to hear what you think is an appropriate Handicap or possibly Bid to the Axis since I can Guarantee we are going to play WD


  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    Here’s an idea

    USA can’t enter the war unless Axis declares directly on her or attacks her holdings/units directly

    That is, Japan can take money islands and wail on UK/ANZ without bringing USA in the war before the end of USA3 (USA can’t attack until US4)

    In other words, USA won’t enter the war unless Pearl Harbor is actually attacked or Hitler stupidly DOWs them! (Implicit assumption is that Japan has attacked Pearl Harbor by USA3 which is why USA can declare at the end of USA3 per the rules)



  • Oh i see…… so by making it harder for the U.S. to enter the war the axis we be able to better fight in both theaters without the risk of the Americans intervening until USA4… I will remember that idea gamerman thanks 🙂


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    I would just play a VC game, because it keeps players more strategically interested, and minded. But… if and when the time comes, and the Axis look like they have it.  Play a WD Game then!

    If the Axis wins the VC call it a minor victory,  if they win the WD game, call it a major victory!

    That said…

    It sounds to me like most of your players are quite new? so the reality of the game balance that players like Gamerman and I are familiar with, may not necessarily apply to your game at all.

    Its like those olympic swimsuits that were a big scandal a few years ago.  At the professional level - the suit gave such an edge to the olympic swimmers that it made it impossible for swimmers who didnt have the suits to win.

    Link - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LZR_Racer

    But Im sure that if the three of us jumped in the water for a race, suit or no suit, we wouldnt know the difference, and it wouldn`t apply to our game at all.

    So keep in mind that concerns about balance etc from Gamerman, myself, and others… probably means nothing in a game of mostly new players.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    And no, Im not saying Gamerman, or Cow, or Myself are Michael Phelps or anything lol.  Its just that after playing so many games at the same skill level, you start to see the patterns, and the petty advantages, that MUST be exploited. 🙂


  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    FWIW I agree with Garg about this too

    Would probably still be a good idea to implement my house rule if you don’t want to play VC winning conditions at all.



  • All very good and valid points, I have learned a lot from all of your guy’s advice and will take it all into consideration in the future…. Thanks a million :)… P.S. that LZR razor olympic swimsuit is pretty interesting with the controversy over it, i never knew about it 😛


  • '15 Official Q&A '11 '10 Moderator

    Any time
    Always fun to think and talk about A&A strategy, and tell others about what’s been learned from experience
    Happy gaming to you and your buddies


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