@Gibsonrick81 I’m hoping to get around to it soon. Worse case, I may not have it till thanksgiving. Just because then I will have a lot more time on my hands for a few days.
What is the Purpose of Minor Axis Infantry in Stalingrad.
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@SuperbattleshipYamato I never said I would make them more “powerful”, I was just saying I would give them a reason to be bought. Beacuse they were “bought” historically. What I mean is way more of them came later in the battle.
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Really? I’m unaware of that.
On August 21st, 1942, it seems like all the Romanian, Hungarian, and Italian units were already in the vicinity. The Battle of Voronezh already ended by the beginning of August.
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@SuperbattleshipYamato Give me one moment then I will reply shortly.
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@SuperbattleshipYamato So there actually was a decent amount of Minor Axis reinforcements after your date, but 99.9% were all Romanian Reinforcements. One know actually after doing some research myself I could easily see the Romain’s warranting a plane. And a Mech as well in the Northern sector on the Don river.
Ground Forces3rd Romanian Army
Arrived early September 1942, transferred from Crimea and the Caucasus.
Took positions northwest of Stalingrad along the Don River.
By November, it had ~152,500 Romanians + 11,200 Germans.
Source: Wikipedia – Romanian armies in the Battle of Stalingrad
4th Romanian Army
Arrived late September 1942, deployed south of Stalingrad.
Fielded ~75,600 men.
Source: Wikipedia – Romanian armies in the Battle of Stalingrad
Both of these armies were reinforcements arriving after Aug 21.
Air Force Reinforcements
Sept 16, 1942: Romanian 7th Fighter Group arrived to support the 3rd Romanian & 6th German Armies.
Sept 25, 1942: Romanian 5th Bomber Group arrived.
Oct 4, 1942: Romanian 1st Bomber, 8th Fighter, 6th Fighter-Bomber, 3rd Bomber Groups all arrived.
Source: Wikipedia – Romanian armies in the Battle of Stalingrad
No Italian or Hungarian Reinforcements After Aug 21, 1942 in Stalingrad Area
Hungarian 2nd Army stayed far north (Voronezh).
Italian 8th Army deployed on the middle Don (northwest of Stalingrad), not in the city sector.
They did not reinforce Stalingrad itself after Aug 21 only the areas around it (which would be on the region board for A&A Stalingrad).
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@DoManMacgee they are different than the German infantry, but they are not a big enough factor that they should have been included. It complecates the game for no purpose.
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@Faramir Yeah that’s why when I have free time which currently I have very little I’m going to try to find some ways to house rule them and make them useful.
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Including them makes them more historically accurate.
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Oh, right. I forgot that the Romanian Third Army was attatched to Operation Case Blue from the start but wasn’t assigned to the Stalingrad initially.
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@SuperbattleshipYamato After doing some quick math and stuff here is what I came up with what they would represent, (AKA A&A units) btw I went with what went with he format: 2 Infantry, 1 Artillery, (roll a die, on a roll of 4-6 means you get 1 Fighter, a roll of 1-3 means you get one Bomber). Shocking like a good chunk of the Romanian air force was in Stalingrad, I’m not sure the best way to represent them. I would say a Tac but they don’t have a Tac so I came up with he formula above. Now I’m not sure why these pieces would be added but this is kind of what the reinforcements represent. This is not the best but a small picture of an idea of what they would represent.
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@SuperbattleshipYamato They had more Bomber than Fighter squadrons so I don’t know what that would mean.
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@SuperbattleshipYamato We should also be adding a Mech in the upper Don River.
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Makes sense. Given that they were “already there”, you can make them free and have them enter at a certain turn.
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@SuperbattleshipYamato This would mess up balance unless the game favors the Russians.
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@SuperbattleshipYamato Way to soon to say if the game is balanced or not though. So this idea will have to wait for a while I assume.
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@FranceNeedsMorePower I agree just add French: about 40 Infantry 15 Tanks, and 10 planes. That will fix the balance to any game. Throw in a couple of French Battleships to SB support and you got a game.
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@Imperious-Leader I’m not understanding your comment. Can you explain what you mean.
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@Faramir They are in the game for a combination of historical accuracy and game balance
With regards to balance, ~100+ playtest results can speak to the importance of their being weaker than the German pieces. If all German INF from the initial starting position could force-multiply upon entering the city Germany would win too easily. At a high-level, Soviets already have a relatively difficult time holding until Uranus in the base scenario as-is.@Faramir said in What is the Purpose of Minor Axis Infantry in Stalingrad.:
It complecates the game for no purpose.
I’m by no means a defender of overly complicated rules (G40 is my least favorite game in all of A&A and I also did not like NA’s bloat), but I don’t think an Infantry that cannot utilize one rule is particularly complicated. The Soviet Rocket unit, the various rules regarding supplies and how bombers can interact with the supply crates, the multiple mechanics regarding keeping Stalingrad supplied over the Volga, and Operation Uranus are all much more complex than the Minor Axis INF. It seems like a strange hill to die on to me.
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The minor axis units are in the game because someone wanted them represented. Balance is not the reason as if they were German units the number of them could have been adjusted to make it balanced. I think it would have been better if either they were not included, or they were fleshed out more to allow a third player. As is, they complicate the game for no real purpose.
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@Faramir Given that I was on the playtest team for the game, I can assure you the pieces are there for balance and only not because “someone wanted them represented.”
EDIT: To elaborate/clarify in case my comment comes off as dismissive/rude, the number of German pieces in the initial setup were adjusted multiple times during the earlier phases of testing because it was found that Germany was winning too often. Demoting a few German INF to “minor Axis” Infantry was seen as a middle-ground approach.
EDIT #2: My initial post was unnecessarily harshly worded and if you read it before I edited it, I apologize. I’ve been on the opposite side of the looking glass (criticizing what I see as needlessly complicated design elements in the A&A games) before so I should have been more understanding of your viewpoint. Hopefully the explanation I gave in my first edit at least clarifies things for you a bit.
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@DoManMacgee @Faramir @SuperbattleshipYamato I do like the idea of the Minor Axis but they are to boring. I would love for them to be an actual 3rd player. There are a few issues with them. A lot of them being historical accuracy reasons.
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