@aequitas:
@ABWorsham:
@wittmann:
RedLeg: do ISIS really have T55s and T62s and Artillery?
Yes, they have heavy weapons.
wich scale? 1:35?
Only in Tamiya or Dragon brands. If you want anything else it has to be in 1/72nd…
Send Boots on the ground to deal with ISIS?
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You mean the ones advocating a holocaust of the arabs and palestinians? �I don’t think it right for America or Israel to go around bombing anyone.
I don’t think anyone here is advocating that and you are a sharp enough guy to know better. You are just baiting a political argument. Actually, I did vote for the nuke 'em option in this poll, truth be told. But that conveys a frustration of “Oh, F–- it all… I don’t know what to do anymore.” rather than an actual desire to kill everyone over there.
As for Israel, they are not posting videos of beheading civilians, executing mass numbers of prisoners or deliberately suicide bombing school children. ISIS/Al-Qaeda/Hezbollah/Boko Haram etc… do.
I would say it is pretty clear who the bad guys are.
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@CWO:
I think Winston Churchill once said that democracy’s only redeeming feature is that it was better than all the alternatives, which is an interesting way of looking at the subject.
And he was right.
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So says the guy who is literally advocating using nuclear weapons to “wipe out” a race of people “once and for all.”
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I say let the middle east burn itself to the ground…That part of the world, the people, the religion, their societies, their culture cannot be saved by anyone but themselves……
I say we stop having our people rush into that burning building….
And if some remnant of a society emerges over there, great, if it happens to be the religious nuts that want to live in the 10th century and force their societies to live in the middle ages, so be it….the people in that part of the world get what they sow….
And if this 12th century, islamic fundamentalist backwards society emerges from the ashes and attacks any democratic modern nation….for any reason, including jihad etc….well then we do what the Romans did to the Carthaginians. Kill everything, salt the earth…Job done
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@JWW:
I say let the middle east burn itself to the ground�That part of the world, the people, the religion, their societies, their culture cannot be saved by anyone but themselves�…
I say we stop having our people rush into that burning building�.
And if some remnant of a society emerges over there, great, if it happens to be the religious nuts that want to live in the 10th century and force their societies to live in the middle ages, so be it�.the people in that part of the world get what they sow�.
And if this 12th century, islamic fundamentalist backwards society emerges from the ashes and attacks any democratic modern nation�.for any reason, including jihad etc�.well then we do what the Romans did to the Carthaginians. Kill everything, salt the earth�Job done
Because that is so easy to do over there….and it’s not like there isn’t any national interest over there either. We all know isolationism works, just put our heads in the sand…while true evil prevails, because good men with the right equipment will do nothing…doesn’t sound very American to me…but in practice it so is…
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Because that is so easy to do over there….
What is so easy to do over there?
it’s not like there isn’t any national interest over there either.
what political interest are you referring? Please don’t say oil….we currently don’t import any from the middle east…so gas prices world wide would rise…we are currently paying crazy money per day just to bomb the savages now…there isn’t a justifiable fiscal comparison to be made and this doesn’t even take into account the human, american toll such action would have.
We all know isolationism works, just put our heads in the sand…
I don’t believe I advocated that…Perhaps this later point wasn’t clear….Kill everyone, salt the earth?
while true evil prevails, because good men with the right equipment will do nothing…
It sounds like in your estimation, only “good men” can be found in this country? I don’t agree. There should be good Turks, Saudi’s, Egyptians, Iraqi’s, Jordanians etc…etc…They certainly have the equipment. We bought it for them and gave it to them already.
Utilizing your logic, there shouldn’t be any place in the world where we should not intervene militarily to thwart evil……This argument is naive and this objective unachievable.
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@JWW:
Because that is so easy to do over there�.
What is so easy to do over there?
it’s not like there isn’t any national interest over there either.
what political interest are you referring? Please don’t say oil�.we currently don’t import any from the middle east…so gas prices world wide would rise�we are currently paying craizy money per day just to bomb the savages now�there isn’t a justifiable fiscal comparison to be made and this doesn’t even take into account the human, american toll such action would have.
We all know isolationism works, just put our heads in the sand�
I don’t believe I advocated that�Perhaps this later point wasn’t clear�.Kill everyone, salt the earth?
while true evil prevails, because good men with the right equipment will do nothing…
It sounds like in your estimation, only “good men” can be found in this country? I don’t agree. There should be good Turks, Saudi’s, Egyptians, Iraqi’s, Jordanians etc�etc…They certainly have the equipment. We bought it for them and gave it to them already.
Utilizing your logic, there shouldn’t be any place in the world where we should not intervene militarily to thwart evil�…This argument is naive and this objective unachievable.
Most middle eastern militaries cannot force project at all. Not to mention how fragile any alliance would be without either the UN or another coalition of the willing to keep everyones eyes on the ball. They lack adequate training and there would be too many conflicting agendas if left to their own devices.
We helped create this mess. We need to help clean it up. It isn’t going away any time soon and there is a very real potential for there to be “splash effect” if we don’t.
The “so easy” comment was about the extermination bit. What you are advocating is genocide. We are supposed to be the good guys, remember. The problem is much more complicated than you are making it out to be and it will require coordination, leadership, and a clear understanding of the ins and outs of the areas. We have been successful at this before with AQI in al anbar circa 2006-2007, the same can be done now. Trust me, veterans of that war are chomping at the bit to right this wrong….myself included.
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It isn’t going away any time soon and there is a very real potential for there to be “splash effect” if we don’t.
But … there will probably be a “splash effect” even if we act.
The present situation is arguably a “splash effect” from the war in Iraq.
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Most middle eastern militaries cannot force project at all. Not to mention how fragile any alliance would be without either the UN or another coalition of the willing to keep everyones eyes on the ball. They lack adequate training and there would be too many conflicting agendas if left to their own devices.
I do not believe that the countries I mentioned earlier cannot effectively engage and defeat isis. If they can’t then so be it, they can start their caliphate and eventually they will attack the wrong country, perhaps Israel and then we can engage w/all the willing vets we have. Yet I would argue that we do it “right” this time.
We helped create this mess. We need to help clean it up. It isn’t going away any time soon and there is a very real potential for there to be “splash effect” if we don’t.
I agree with you here but just as we might not have the intestinal fortitude to “kill everyone and salt the earth” I doubt we are willing to stay the long term, criminalize their twisted religion and build a democracy. I feel this is pure folly and naivety.
The “so easy” comment was about the extermination bit. What you are advocating is genocide.
It took the fire bombing of Germany, the atomic bombs striking Japan, THEN the Marshall plan and 70+ years of permanent military bases and involvement in the axis countries for us to make a change to the dynamic of these peoples, their culture and their society at large. This is what I mean by Kill everyone and salt the earth. It is, imo, the only realistic way and we aren’t ready for that are we?
We are supposed to be the good guys, remember.
If we are indeed the ONLY good guys capable of effectively combating problems like this around the world we are indeed in a world of schite my friend. There are other good guys and I would argue smarter ones at that.
The problem is much more complicated than you are making it out to be and it will require coordination, leadership, and a clear understanding of the ins and outs of the areas. We have been successful at this before with AQI in al anbar circa 2006-2007, the same can be done now. Trust me, veterans of that war are chomping at the bit to right this wrong….myself included.
I want to say I REALLY appreciate your service. You are a true good guy and hero in my book. I am all for offering coordination & leadership (perhaps in 2 years when this country has one). But the topic was boots on the ground and I would rather we keep your boots where they are.
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It isn’t going away any time soon and there is a very real potential for there to be “splash effect” if we don’t.
But … there will probably be a “splash effect” even if we act.
The present situation is arguably a “splash effect” from the war in Iraq.
agreed
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I just realized the second part of my post was redundant since redleg acknowledged this. I appreciate the argument of responsibility he makes, I just have doubts about where such involvement will ultimately lead both the US and the Middle East.
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So says the guy who is literally advocating using nuclear weapons to “wipe out” a race of people “once and for all.”
I wasn’t really advocating that. I was thinking more along the lines of JWWs post but he wrote it better than me and more funny. Sometimes humour doesn’t carry well. But anyway, lets get the hell out of the middle east and leave them to their own.
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