Narushima (Carolingians) vs. P@nther (Coalition) in Nap. Empires

[Narushima]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Napoleonic Empires, version: 4.0.9

Game History

Round :4

Combat Move - OttomanEmpire
            1 Artillery, 1 Dragoons, 4 Fusilierss and 1 Horse_Artillery moved from Armenia to Lazes
                  OttomanEmpire take Lazes from Russia
            1 Artillery and 3 Horse_Artillerys moved from Tarsus to Lazes
            2 Howitzers moved from Karamania to Lazes
            1 Cuirassiers and 2 Hussarss moved from Anatolia to Lazes
            2 Cuirassierss and 1 Hussars moved from Constantinople to Serbia
            1 Mortars moved from Bulgaria to Serbia
            1 Chasseurs and 1 Howitzer moved from Bosnia to Serbia
            2 Chasseurss and 5 Fusilierss moved from Moldavia to Bulgaria
            1 Barque moved from SZ96 to SZ95
            2 Barques, 2 Brigantines, 1 Cutter and 1 Frigate moved from SZ95 to SZ96

Purchase Units - OttomanEmpire
            OttomanEmpire buy 2 Dragoonss and 6 Fusilierss; Remaining resources: 2 PUs;

Combat - OttomanEmpire
            Battle in Serbia
                OttomanEmpire attack with 1 Chasseurs, 2 Cuirassierss, 1 Howitzer, 1 Hussars and 1 Mortars
                AustrianEmpire defend with 1 Artillery, 1 Dragoons, 2 Fusilierss, 1 Horse_Artillery, 1 Howitzer and 2 Hussarss
                AustrianEmpire win with 1 Howitzer and 1 Hussars remaining. Battle score for attacker is -7
                Casualties for OttomanEmpire: 1 Chasseurs, 2 Cuirassierss, 1 Howitzer, 1 Hussars and 1 Mortars
                Casualties for AustrianEmpire: 1 Artillery, 1 Dragoons, 2 Fusilierss, 1 Horse_Artillery and 1 Hussars

Non Combat Move - OttomanEmpire

Place Units - OttomanEmpire
            6 Fusilierss placed in Constantinople
            2 Dragoonss placed in Anatolia

Turn Complete - OttomanEmpire
            OttomanEmpire collect 35 PUs; end with 37 PUs total

[Panther]

May I ask you to be careful when taking out my units?

In the last battle I had 5 units with a defense value of 1 and 3 units with 2.
You scored 4 hits and took out 3 of 1 and 1 of 2, instead of 4 of 1. That influences my chances in the second round of combat.

Also why did you take out my Artillery (5PU, 2/1/1) instead of my Howitzer (4PU, 1/1/1). This does not make any sense.

That reminds me of our LotR game where you took out my Tower Guards instead of the less valuable Spear Infantry.

That’s just unfair! I hope you did it by accident.
At least it had no impact on the dice results.

I will edit my units.

Please be careful.

[Panther]

…another example is leaving the Hussar instead of fusilier with the Howitzer/Artillery.

[Narushima]

So should I always leave the automatically selected casualties?

[Panther]

The automatically selected units are (but must not always be) a good indication, as the automatical selection follows reasonable rules.

In front to front games the owner of the units chooses which units are lost.
In PBF or PBmail games the player who plays the turn has to “think in the head of his opponent” about which units are the most reasonable to take out.
Or in other words: What units would you reasonably take out if “you were me”. You as the attacker are not supposed to take out the opponent’s units that obviously weakens him. As a thumb-rule you should keep the opponent as strong as possible when taking out his units.

The decision of course is made in relation to the game status, attack/defense values of units and/or unit price.

In most of the battles this is no problem, because the take-out is (or at least seems to be) logical.
But sometimes, especially in battles with more than one round of combat and different unit profiles, in large sea battles etc. it is better to either think carefully (in favour to your opponennt) or ask for an OOL.

Whenever you have a doubt about what unit would your opponent take out, it would be better to ask.

So in the last battle you - as the defender - (if you were me) would not have left the cheapest and least-(A/D)-valuable units on the board, would you?
You would have chosen to leave either two units with the defense value of 2 - or as I would have chosen leave a Fusilier with the Artillery (for the attack support).

I hope I was able to explain the “methods of taking out the opponent’s units” in an understandable way.
If not please ask for further explanation.

:-)

I will continue later this evening or tomorrow.

[Panther]

Another example:
I realized you took out an Austrain Dragoon (Cost 6; 2/2/2) instead of another Hussar (Cost 4; 1/1/2) in the first round of combat.
You see - this is something TripleA would not suggest.

TripleA with its logic would suggest to take out the Hussar instead of the Dragoon.
You (if you were me) would not have taken the Dragoon but the Hussar instead.

So I think we are clear now on this subject.

I will do the Austrian edit as follows, as it is logical:
With Ottoman’s first four hits it is logical to take out units with a defense value of 1 - as a second round of combat will occur, and the Austrian most likely are to win the battle. The units with defense@2 are 2 Fusiliers, 1 Dragoon. They are kept. There is to keep another unit. This should be an attack supporting unit - either the Artillery or the Horse-Artillery (both value 5).
The combination Artillery/Fusilier is 4/3/1 , cost 9; the combination Dragoon/Horse-Artillery is 4/3/2, cost 11.
So it is logical to keep Dragoon /Horse Artillery with the two fusiliers.

In the second round of combat two more hits were scored, and Ottomans lost. As the Dragoon/Horse-Artillery combination is superior to two fusiliers, it is logical to keep them.

Just another example, on how decisions of taking out the opponents units can be made.
As I said, this complexity does not happen often - but it happens sometimes.

:-)

[Panther]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Napoleonic Empires, version: 4.0.9

Game History

Round :4

Combat Move - Russia
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by AustrianEmpire from Serbia: 1 Howitzer
            EDIT: Removing units owned by AustrianEmpire from Serbia: 1 Hussars
            EDIT: Adding units owned by AustrianEmpire to Serbia: 1 Dragoons and 1 Horse_Artillery
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            1 Artillery, 1 Chasseurs, 1 Fusiliers and 1 Marines moved from Finland to SZ4
            1 Artillery, 3 Barques, 1 Brigantine, 1 Chasseurs, 2 Cutters, 1 Fusiliers and 1 Marines moved from SZ4 to SZ9
            1 Artillery, 1 Chasseurs, 1 Fusiliers and 1 Marines moved from SZ9 to Ostra Gotaland
                  Russia take Ostra Gotaland from Sweden
            1 Fusiliers moved from Galicia to Moldavia
                  Russia take Moldavia from OttomanEmpire
            3 Fusilierss and 1 Howitzer moved from Bessarabia to Moldavia
            1 Cuirassiers, 3 Dragoonss, 1 Horse_Artillery and 2 Hussarss moved from Bessarabia to Wallachia
                  Russia take Wallachia from OttomanEmpire
            2 Dragoonss and 2 Hussarss moved from Odessa to Moldavia
            1 Hussars moved from Odessa to Moldavia

Purchase Units - Russia
            Russia buy 1 Cuirassiers, 3 Dragoonss, 1 Horse_Artillery and 2 Hussarss; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat - Russia

Non Combat Move - Russia
            1 Dragoons and 4 Hussarss moved from Moscovia to Mordvins
            2 Artillerys, 2 Fusilierss, 1 Horse_Artillery and 5 Hussarss moved from Astrakahn to Mordvins
            2 Hussarss moved from Odessa to Mordvins
            1 Grenadiers and 1 Howitzer moved from Finland to Karelia
            4 Dragoonss moved from Finland to Novgorod

Place Units - Russia
            1 Cuirassiers and 1 Horse_Artillery placed in Odessa
            3 Dragoonss and 2 Hussarss placed in Moscovia

Turn Complete - Russia
            Russia collect 41 PUs; end with 41 PUs total

[Narushima]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Napoleonic Empires, version: 4.0.9

Game History

Round :5

Politics - France

Combat Move - France
            2 Chasseurss and 1 Fusiliers moved from Normandy to Brittany
            6 Chasseurss moved from Orleanais to Normandy
            2 Artillerys and 4 Fusilierss moved from Flanders to Picardy
            1 Artillery, 1 Grenadiers and 1 Howitzer moved from Provence to Liguria
            3 Cuirassierss moved from Auvergne to Provence
            1 Dragoons moved from Liguria to Lombardi
            1 Artillery and 2 Grenadierss moved from Eturia to Bologna
            1 Horse_Artillery moved from Lombardi to Bologna
            1 Horse_Artillery and 1 Marines moved from Lombardi to Bologna
            1 Battleship, 2 Brigantines and 2 Cutters moved from SZ44 to SZ43

Purchase Units - France
            France buy 1 Battleship, 1 Cutter and 7 Fusilierss; Remaining resources: 1 PUs;

Combat - France
            Battle in Bologna
                France attack with 1 Artillery, 2 Grenadierss, 2 Horse_Artillerys and 1 Marines
                Neutral defend with 2 Fusilierss
                France win, taking Bologna from Neutral with 1 Artillery, 2 Grenadierss, 2 Horse_Artillerys and 1 Marines remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
                Casualties for Neutral: 2 Fusilierss

Non Combat Move - France
            1 General moved from Auvergne to Gascony

Place Units - France
            1 Battleship and 1 Cutter placed in SZ43
            7 Fusilierss placed in Orleanais

Turn Complete - France
            France collect 61 PUs; end with 62 PUs total
            Objective Balancing Income for balanced game: France met a national objective for an additional -6 PUs; end with 56 PUs

[Narushima]

I know that the defender is supposed to choose the casualties on his side in the board game, but multiplayer in this version doesn’t seem to have any established rules, which is confusing.
I see what you mean, but it seems to me like quite a weakness in the game.

[Panther]

The more you play the more you get a feeling for this.
In this forums hundreds or thousands of games are played this way either with ABattlemap (in this old fashioned electronic gameboard, where no suggestions are made and players must do everything themselves) or with TripleA.

Just think in your opponents’s head, act reasonably - or ask for OOL.

It’s no problem.

The suggestions that TripleA make are a good hint. Normally the suggestion is taking out the units starting with the least defense value and the least PU-value. In most battles you are fine with the suggestion - but not always.

[Panther]

The next UK move seems to be an interesting one… so it takes me a little longer to think about it.

[Panther]

And please update to the new stable version of TripleA (1.7.0.3)

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=31221.0

We can use our savegames with it.

[Panther]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Napoleonic Empires, version: 4.0.9

Game History

Round :5

Combat Move - UnitedKingdom
            3 Mariness moved from Cyrenacia to SZ81
            1 Barque and 3 Mariness moved from SZ81 to SZ86
            3 Mariness moved from SZ86 to Egypt
                  UnitedKingdom take Egypt from France
            1 Battleship, 1 Brigantine and 2 Frigates moved from SZ81 to SZ82
            5 Mariness moved from Essex to SZ29
            1 Brigantine, 3 Corvettes, 1 Frigate and 5 Mariness moved from SZ29 to SZ12
            5 Mariness moved from SZ12 to Norvege
            1 Artillery, 1 Chasseurs, 2 Fusilierss, 1 Grenadiers and 2 Mariness moved from Hanovre to SZ27
            1 Artillery, 5 Barques, 1 Chasseurs, 2 Fusilierss, 1 Grenadiers and 2 Mariness moved from SZ27 to SZ12
            1 Artillery, 1 Chasseurs, 2 Fusilierss, 1 Grenadiers and 2 Mariness moved from SZ12 to Norvege

Purchase Units - UnitedKingdom
            UnitedKingdom buy 2 Brigantines, 3 Corvettes, 1 Cutter and 3 Fusilierss; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat - UnitedKingdom
            Battle in Norvege
                UnitedKingdom attack with 1 Artillery, 1 Chasseurs, 2 Fusilierss, 1 Grenadiers and 7 Mariness
                Sweden defend with 1 Chasseurs
                UnitedKingdom win, taking Norvege from Sweden with 1 Artillery, 1 Chasseurs, 2 Fusilierss, 1 Grenadiers and 7 Mariness remaining. Battle score for attacker is 5
                Casualties for Sweden: 1 Chasseurs
            Battle in SZ82
                UnitedKingdom attack with 1 Battleship, 1 Brigantine and 2 Frigates
                France defend with 1 Barque and 1 Brigantine
                UnitedKingdom win with 1 Battleship, 1 Brigantine and 2 Frigates remaining. Battle score for attacker is 16
                Casualties for France: 1 Barque and 1 Brigantine

Non Combat Move - UnitedKingdom
            1 Brigantine moved from SZ26 to SZ27
            1 Marines moved from Hanovre to SZ27
            1 Brigantine and 1 Marines moved from SZ27 to SZ26
            1 Marines moved from SZ26 to Jutland
            2 Cutters moved from SZ29 to SZ34
            1 Cutter moved from SZ26 to SZ35
            2 Barques, 1 Battleship and 1 Frigate moved from SZ11 to SZ9
            1 Artillery moved from Skane to Ostra Gotaland
            1 Dragoons moved from Skane to Ostra Gotaland
            3 Fusilierss moved from Essex to Sussex
            1 Grenadiers moved from Essex to Sussex
            4 Dragoonss moved from Hanovre to Pomerania
            1 Artillery, 3 Fusilierss and 1 Howitzer moved from Hanovre to Holstein

Place Units - UnitedKingdom
            3 Fusilierss placed in Hanovre
            1 Cutter placed in SZ82
            2 Brigantines and 3 Corvettes placed in SZ29
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by UnitedKingdom from Pomerania: 2 Dragoonss
            EDIT: Adding units owned by UnitedKingdom to Jutland: 2 Dragoonss
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

Turn Complete - UnitedKingdom
            UnitedKingdom collect 70 PUs; end with 70 PUs total
            Objective Balancing Income for balanced game: UnitedKingdom met a national objective for an additional -4 PUs; end with 66 PUs

[Narushima]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Napoleonic Empires, version: 4.0.9

Game History

Round :5

Combat Move - Spain
            2 Mariness moved from West Sahara to SZ51
            2 Barques and 2 Mariness moved from SZ51 to SZ49
            1 Battleship, 2 Brigantines, 1 Corvette, 1 Cutter and 1 Frigate moved from SZ53 to SZ49
            1 Artillery and 1 Fusiliers moved from Algarve to SZ49
            1 Artillery, 3 Barques, 1 Battleship, 2 Brigantines, 1 Corvette, 1 Cutter, 1 Frigate, 1 Fusiliers and 2 Mariness moved from SZ49 to SZ53
            1 Barque and 1 Fusiliers moved from SZ53 to SZ54
            1 Chasseurs and 1 Howitzer moved from Areg to Tunisia
                  Spain take Tunisia from UnitedKingdom
            1 Cuirassiers and 1 Dragoons moved from Algarve to New Castille
            1 Artillery and 1 Fusiliers moved from La Mancha to Murcia
            2 Frigates moved from SZ44 to SZ49
            1 Cutter and 2 Frigates moved from SZ47 to SZ53
            1 Chasseurs and 2 Fusilierss moved from Catalonia to Languedoc

Purchase Units - Spain
            Spain buy 3 Barques and 2 Dragoonss; Remaining resources: 2 PUs;

Combat - Spain

Non Combat Move - Spain

Place Units - Spain
            3 Barques placed in SZ47
            2 Dragoonss placed in New Castille

Turn Complete - Spain
            Spain collect 47 PUs; end with 49 PUs total
            Objective Balancing Income for balanced game: Spain met a national objective for an additional -10 PUs; end with 39 PUs

[Panther]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Napoleonic Empires, version: 4.0.9

Game History

Round :5

Purchase Units - KingdomOfPrussia
            KingdomOfPrussia buy 2 Brigantines, 1 Cuirassiers and 1 Cutter; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Non Combat Move - KingdomOfPrussia
            1 General moved from Mecklenburg to Pomerania
            1 Grenadiers, 1 Horse_Artillery, 1 Howitzer and 4 Hussarss moved from Mecklenburg to Hanovre
            5 Hussarss moved from Prussia to Mecklenburg
            1 Cutter moved from SZ7 to SZ9
            2 Brigantines moved from SZ3 to SZ2
            2 Dragoonss moved from Galicia to Wallachia
            1 Artillery, 1 Chasseurs and 2 Fusilierss moved from Galicia to Moldavia

Place Units - KingdomOfPrussia
            2 Brigantines and 1 Cutter placed in SZ9
            1 Cuirassiers placed in Prussia

Turn Complete - KingdomOfPrussia
            KingdomOfPrussia collect 29 PUs; end with 29 PUs total

[Panther]

If you intend to attack the combined fleet in SZ 9 with Sweden,
then please ask for OOL round by round.

Thank you  :-)

[Narushima]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Napoleonic Empires, version: 4.0.9

Game History

Round :5

Combat Move - Sweden
            1 Dragoons, 2 Grenadierss and 1 Horse_Artillery moved from Vastra Gotaland to Ostra Gotaland
            5 Fusilierss moved from Svealand to Ostra Gotaland

Purchase Units - Sweden
            Sweden buy 3 Fusilierss; Remaining resources: 1 PUs;

Combat - Sweden
            Battle in Ostra Gotaland
                Sweden attack with 1 Dragoons, 5 Fusilierss, 2 Grenadierss and 1 Horse_Artillery
                UnitedKingdom defend with 1 Artillery and 1 Dragoons; Russia defend with 1 Artillery, 1 Chasseurs, 1 Fusiliers and 1 Marines
                Sweden win, taking Ostra Gotaland from Russia with 1 Grenadiers remaining. Battle score for attacker is -6
                Casualties for UnitedKingdom: 1 Artillery and 1 Dragoons
                Casualties for Russia: 1 Artillery, 1 Chasseurs, 1 Fusiliers and 1 Marines
                Casualties for Sweden: 1 Dragoons, 5 Fusilierss, 1 Grenadiers and 1 Horse_Artillery

Non Combat Move - Sweden
            1 General moved from Vastra Gotaland to Svealand

Place Units - Sweden
            3 Fusilierss placed in Svealand

Turn Complete - Sweden
            Sweden collect 11 PUs; end with 12 PUs total

[Narushima]

Not this time.

[Panther]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Napoleonic Empires, version: 4.0.9

Game History

Round :5

Combat Move - AustrianEmpire
            1 Dragoons moved from Hanovre to Flanders
                  AustrianEmpire take Flanders from France
            1 Dragoons moved from Serbia to Albania
                  AustrianEmpire take Albania from OttomanEmpire
            1 Dragoons moved from Albania to Serbia
            1 Horse_Artillery moved from Serbia to Macedonia
                  AustrianEmpire take Macedonia from OttomanEmpire
            1 Horse_Artillery moved from Macedonia to Serbia
            1 Hussars moved from Croatia to Bosnia
                  AustrianEmpire take Bosnia from OttomanEmpire
            1 Hussars moved from Bosnia to Serbia

Purchase Units - AustrianEmpire
            AustrianEmpire buy 8 Hussarss; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat - AustrianEmpire

Non Combat Move - AustrianEmpire
            2 Dragoonss and 3 Hussarss moved from Slavonia to Serbia
            8 Hussarss moved from Austria to Slavonia
            1 Hussars moved from Bavaria to Hanovre

Place Units - AustrianEmpire
            8 Hussarss placed in Austria

Turn Complete - AustrianEmpire
            AustrianEmpire collect 37 PUs; end with 37 PUs total

[Narushima]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Napoleonic Empires, version: 4.0.9

Game History

Round :5

Combat Move - OttomanEmpire
            2 Artillerys, 1 Cuirassiers, 1 Dragoons, 4 Fusilierss, 4 Horse_Artillerys, 2 Howitzers and 2 Hussarss moved from Lazes to Georgia
            2 Dragoonss moved from Anatolia to Lazes
            1 Fusiliers moved from Bulgaria to Macedonia
                  OttomanEmpire take Macedonia from AustrianEmpire
            2 Chasseurss and 4 Fusilierss moved from Bulgaria to Constantinople

Purchase Units - OttomanEmpire
            OttomanEmpire buy 7 Chasseurss; Remaining resources: 2 PUs;

Combat - OttomanEmpire
            Battle in Georgia
                OttomanEmpire attack with 2 Artillerys, 1 Cuirassiers, 1 Dragoons, 4 Fusilierss, 4 Horse_Artillerys, 2 Howitzers and 2 Hussarss
                Neutral defend with 1 Dragoons and 2 Fusilierss
                OttomanEmpire win, taking Georgia from Neutral with 2 Artillerys, 1 Cuirassiers, 1 Dragoons, 4 Fusilierss, 4 Horse_Artillerys, 2 Howitzers and 1 Hussars remaining. Battle score for attacker is 10
                Casualties for OttomanEmpire: 1 Hussars
                Casualties for Neutral: 1 Dragoons and 2 Fusilierss

Non Combat Move - OttomanEmpire
            1 Fusiliers moved from Constantinople to Bulgaria

Place Units - OttomanEmpire
            7 Chasseurss placed in Constantinople

Turn Complete - OttomanEmpire
            OttomanEmpire collect 32 PUs; end with 34 PUs total