Global War 1940 2nd ed.

[General 6 Stars]

With the above tests each country will receive reinforment planes per turn at end of a whole turn and placed at Capitals only.
T1
Ger - 1 fig 1 Tac 1 stg b
Jap - 2 fig 1 n fig
Italy - 1 fig
Ussr - 2 fig
UK - 2 fig 1 Dive b
US - 1 fig 1 n fig 1 Tac
Fec - 1 fig 1 Dive b
Anzac - 1 n fig
T2
Ger - 3 fig
Jap - 2 fig 1 n fig
UK - 1 fig
US - 2 fig 1 n fig
T3
Jap - 1 n fig
US - 1 stg b

Granted this is to prevent a over kill T1

[General 6 Stars]

Already with random side test battles this will make your deciding on planes staying longer or not in battles plus both plane and BB CR be on same AD against each other instead of 6 vs 7 or 8 it will be 3 vs 3. Battles will take longer some but gives you more of a chance now to kill planes or if you have 6 planes against a BB and CR May take them out before u all get killed
Idea here is to get a bunch of more planes in game without over powering planes.
This is where planes are cheaper and as the norm destroyers are cheaper already so now with destroyers not getting to hit planes u need them as support fodder like real war to protect your capital ships and on land you will need more art and spas where ground troops should win battles more like there suppose to.
Also could have it where if u have 3 destroyers get a plane shot @1 or @2
US gets the fletcher dest t3 and them destroyers AD@1 plane & AD@3 ship

And another thing. Should Inf really get to kill a plane on there AD roll ? I say no they can’t. Now you need a plane on D maybe and you have to bring in extra stronger support in ground battles due to weaker planes and more art and spas I game. I can see even some figs left in territories so there planes can maybe get a kill and then can retreat after 1 round of combat which they can in game anyway.
This is awesome !

[General 6 Stars]

Ok to whom it matters I got 4 test turns in game with planes hitting planes and also getting ground or ship shots just like the BB and CR.
Well I got an issue now with planes being weaker than tanks which is good and fine but the issue is tanks get to hit planes at a @6 compared to planes getting. Hit @4. I mean tanks don’t really hit planes.
I know people will say but that’s the way it is. Well it’s just not right for me. Same thing with an Inf defending at a@4 and a plane attacking at a @4. So I had to tweak a few values to offset the BB and CR being the only ships to hit planes and changing the fig values to make it closer to a reasonable AD number.
So for game test went with
BB C15 AD@3 plane & AD@7 ship M2
CR C9 AD@3 plane & AD@6 ship M3
DD C6 AD@3 can’t hit planes
Only change here was raising the ships plane value up from @2 to @3 and lowered ship hit 1 number for both ships. Due to the fact only 2 ships that can hit planes for now.
Fig C8 AD@2 & AD@4
Tac C9 AD@1 plane & AD@5 ground or ship pick target
Same for naval fig and Dive bomber
Man the Tac and Dive bomber are huge in game when figs only hit on a @4. Need some punch against ships and ground and it’s awesome to pick your target now.
I also added a plane or 2 after each turn but was not really necessary due to thinking more plane kills so make them cheaper and add to game but this may not be necessary but I may make another change.
But what is great is you need to buy BB and some CR to get plane hits when you don’t have planes with your fleets or a bunch of destroyers alone. So you need those destroyer escorts for fodder to and blocking and sub defense just like real war.
So I have a few optional changes I can do. Make figs now C10 AD@1 plane & AD@5 ship or ground. But then figs would just knock out everything to fast. The @5 would be to keep up with Inf D@4 and Tanks AD@6 or make it when figs in a ground battle only AD@5 and AD@4 in naval combat.
Also seeing that the US gets the Fletcher destroyer starting on t3 there destroyers now AD@1 plane & AD@3. Could also go with for every 3 destroyers you get 1 plane shot @1 & AD3 for rest of countries and US before turn 3.
One reason why you make destroyers cheaper in game too.

[General 6 Stars]

Another thought.
Keep BB and CR @3 for planes
For every 3 destroyers get a plane shot @1
But don’t give plane vs plane hit
Go with 2 mandatory dog fight rounds for every combat battle
So figs @2 tacs @1 stg b @1
Interceptors and escorts
Figs @3 Tac @1 stg @1 due to just plane on plane more accurate a bit
Just thought of something. Now the plane will be to strong on ship attacks and ground so may scrap this unless make it figs AD@ 4 ships
And AD @5 ground only

[barnee]

Right on. Good action here.

Trying to get the units represented similar to how they were in the war is the challenge for sure. I like stacks of combined forces, although with certain countries and or situations one might spam something out.

Yea I found Tacs to be pretty powerful also. Mainly due to their versatility. Obviously different than what you have but same general idea. I have them in a ground support role for infantry as well as going after subs and ships and minor bombing.

Thought fighters might be unduly affected but they can hit ships ( at a lower value ) as well and still defend better and boost the Tac on offense same as oob global.
The biggest thing I noticed about them was having them around to intercept the SBR’s though. So they seem to balance out fairly well at the moment. Starting a new test shortly.

Cheaper DDs definitely the way to go. Fodder and Sub hunters. Huge help to Fleet composition.

Anyway, Rock On : )

[General 6 Stars]

Ya Barney. I’m still undecided on figs values.
As of now don’t want to add any piece boosts to game due to the fact of there’s a ton of stuff to remember for these guys until we get a bunch of games in.
As of now think will go with
Fig C8 AD@3 DF 1 round only
AD@3 ships or AD@5 ground
Tac C10 AD@1 DF AD@4 or 5 need more tests
Pick target
Subs can pick target A@5 D@2
For every 3 destroyers get a plane shot @2

I can see fig being AD@4 then go to AD@5 with each Tac or Dive Bombers. 1 to 1

The countries will not receive the free planes per turn now. With Figs being at AD@3 ships will help with Japan’s major strong hold with figs by taming them down. This will make the BB and CR bought more. The Cruiser now is what it should be. AD@3 plane & AD@6 ship plus it can move 3. Helps with air attacks and faster backup.

[General 6 Stars]

OK. If anybody is interested in this. Barnee let me know how close I am to your d6 values for your tripla A tests.
D12 my game.
Fig C8 M5 AD@2 plane & AD@3 ship or AD@4 ground
N. Fig same as above but can only M4
Tac C10 M5 AD@1 plane & AD@4. Pick target
Dive same as above but only can M4
Stg. B C10 M6 AD@1 plane & A4@3 carpet bombing. D@2
BB C15 M2 AD@3 plane & AD@7 ship. Dam AD@2 plane & AD@5 ship.
CR C9 M3 AD@3 plane & AD@6 ship.
AC C14 M2 D@3 plane only. Dam D@1 plane only. 1 plane can land.
EC C8 M2 D@3 plane only.
DD C6 M2 AD@3 can only hit ships.
Interceptors & escorts AD@3
Bombers AD@1
US Fletcher Destroyer can buy on T3 42
US Fl DD C6 AD@1 plane & AD@3 ship

D8
Fig C9 AD@1 plane & AD@3 ship or AD@4 ground.
Tac C10 AD@1 plane & AD@3. Pick target.
BB C15 AD@1 plane & AD@5 ship. Dam Ad@1 & AD@4 ship.
CR C9 AD@1 plane & AD@4 ship.
AC C14 D@2 plane only. Dam D@1 plane only.
EC C8 D@2 plane only.
DD C6 AD@2 can only hit ships.
Interceptors escorts A@2 D@3
Bombers AD@1
D6
Fig C9 AD@1 plane & AD@2 ship or AD@3 ground
Tac C10 AD@1 plane & AD@2. Pick Target.
BB C15 AD@1 plane & AD@4 ship. Dam AD@1 plane & AD@2 ship.
CR C9 AD@1 plane & AD@3 ship.
DD C6 AD@2 Can only hit ships.
AC C14 D@2 plane only. Dam D@1 plane only.
Interceptors escorts AD@2
Bombers AD@1

There is no Dog Fighting. These values you use for each
round of combat. I have it where you can retreat attacking
and defending planes after 1 round of combat.

[barnee]

@SS-GEN
I’ll list what I have, but Idk that one can really compare them that well with the cost and behavior being so different on most of them. Anyway, I’ll give it a shot using your D6 list. While the mod mostly uses D6 there are some D12 and D10 involved in Ship AA and Planes Targeting Ships.

Only the Bomber and the DD are different price wise from global oob, although almost all have different capabilities. All movement is same as oob as well.

Ftr C10 A3 D4 boost Tac +1A when paired 1:1 Air Battle at 1 for Escort/Intercept
Targets BB, CA and CV for 1 Rd before regular combat hits at 1 in 12 Attack or Defense. Ships can only be Targeted by 1 Ftr, so 2 Ftrs 1 Ship only 1 shot. So for the extra buck, looks as if it’s slightly more powerful than what you have.

Tac C11 A3 +1A when paired with Ftr or Tank D3 Air Battle at 1 for Scramble/Bombing
Targets BB, CA, CV and Subs for 1 Rd before regular combat hits at 2 in 12 on Attack 1 in 12 on Defense. Ships can only be targeted once, same as Ftrs. They also give +1A to Inf and Mech Inf when paired 1:1. This a little harder to say. Even though your hitting at 2, I could see where being able to pick your target could be pretty powerful so Idk.

BB C20 A4 D4 Two Hit 1 AA shot that hits at 1 in 10 on Defense and 1 in 12 on Attack. Only 1 AA shot per Plane. Boosts CA +1A when paired 1:1. Only 1 AA shot per Plane. Can transport 1 Marine/Elite. I’d say the 15 dollar model probably a better deal. Shoots at the planes better and still hits at a 4 being undamaged. Probably makes for some interesting decisions on when you take the damage. Probably last resort usually ?

CA C12 A3 +1A when paired with BB D3 2 AA shots that hits at 1 in 10 on Defense and 1 in 12 on Attack. Only 1 AA shot per Plane. Can transport 1 Marine/Elite. 9 dollar CA probably a little better. There pretty close on the Planes, but once again, it’s really hard to say since they do different things.

Baron crunched the numbers for this guy. I think it works pretty good.
DD C5 A1 D1 1 preemptive ASA (AntiSubAttack) shot that hits at 2 out of 12. It shoots before Sub and if it Hits, Sub is immediately killed. Has 2 ASD shots that hit at 1 in 12. One fires when Sub moves into or through a SZ the DD is in, the other at the start of combat. Will also fire once in NCM if a Sub enters it’s zone. This is hard to say as well since they don’t block Subs any more. A 2 hittin DD for 6 bucks seems pretty powerful, but it can’t hit Planes and with CAs and BBs cheaper ? Idk

CV A0 D2 same as oob except can be targeted by Planes as mentioned above. This seems pretty close.

Black Elks idea. I find these a lot of fun too.
Bmbr is A0 C5. It can only Strat bomb. Can’t Air Battle either. That’s why Ftrs Air Battle at 1. Can’t be used as a Hit soaker in regular combat. What you have is fine.

Some things I had to do different than what was wanted due to triplea limitations. Primarily having 2 ASD shots for the Subs and the AA shots for the BB and CA hitting on the attack same as Planes targeting on the defense, so it’s a little messy in spots. Since triplea does everything anyway, I don’t find it to be that big a deal though.

So as I said above, I don’t think one can really compare the two by their stats. If you’re getting the desired behavior, better Fleet composition, more Air units but not overpowered, etc…then you should be good to go. :)

[General 6 Stars]

Ya I know of black elk going with the 5 icp bomber. Baron would Agee with me that some pieces just cost to much. Well it was just an idea and starting point. Doesn’t mean it totally will work unless tested as usual. Keep up the great work and tests.
As mentioned maybe a few things u can’t do on T A. These numbers work in my test game. I haven’t posted about it yet. I’ll post a small report and thoughts on it in a bit

[barnee]

@SS-GEN
yea I remember Baron going with a revamped price structure for ships and planes. Looks as if you have done something pretty similar. Guess i should see if i can still access my messages from the old site. Baron had crunched a pile of numbers that are worth saving

[General 6 Stars]

@barnee said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

@SS-GEN
yea I remember Baron going with a revamped price structure for ships and planes. Looks as if you have done something pretty similar. Guess i should see if i can still access my messages from the old site. Baron had crunched a pile of numbers that are worth saving

But these numbers are based on planes hitting planes too for what I listed. May not work in any game unless u revamp all pieces.
You every set up your play test too right n table top map ? So this way u can try it with out having to change on Triple A

[barnee]

@SS-GEN
yea i understand it’s plane against plane. I assume BB and CA are also shooting at the planes from what you posted. Would represent AA fire is what I thought. So 1 in 6 is a little more powerful than what I have and it only goes for 1 Rd, where you can retreat after 1 Rd or stay. So yea a bit different but that’s how i interpreted it.

And i agree, you have to take the full roster into account to make it work, the planes on planes that is. Eventually I want to add Baron’s price changes as an option and a D8 and D12 system as well. That’s quite a ways down the road though. That’s why this is a never ending project :)

I test on triplea exclusively. I’d need several extra lifetimes to get any thing done otherwise :) Everything can be played tabletop. No restrictions there. Perhaps I misunderstood you.

At any rate, just finished the latest update. Gonna try add Argos “Supply Token” next.

[barnee]

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

But these numbers are based on planes hitting planes too for what I listed. May not work in any game unless u revamp all pieces.
You every set up your play test too right n table top map ? So this way u can try it with out having to change on Triple A

Ahh…I think I got ya now. Yea test it on the tabletop before adding it to triplea. Yea I could see it if it was a massive change (which this kinda is) it’d make sense, but triplea is so much faster and I continue to learn when I add to it, I really haven’t done that.

Edit
Seeing as how it’s already been tested by you somewhat, It’d be better just too add it and anyone interested could test then as well. I don’t think triplea can currently do all that you have right now though. Can take the general ideas and try and incorporate them but it’d be a bastardized version of sorts.

[General 6 Stars]

Right. I know Baron was testing the plane hit plane to on his game. But he also has cost changes. Will just have to wait till he chimes in. He’s on another honeymoon. Lol

[barnee]

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

Right. I know Baron was testing the plane hit plane to on his game. But he also has cost changes. Will just have to wait till he chimes in. He’s on another honeymoon. Lol

Heh Heh Good for him :)

[General 6 Stars]

This is what I’m seeing so far with this new plane vs plane tests.

1. Tac & Dive bomber is a huge piece in game.
   With a cheaper fig you will take the fig as a casualty in some cases. By making this plane pick piece is sweet and like it’s suppose to do.
   More of these are being bought. Kept these at 10 so far.
2. A few more Carrier casualties and this also depends on where your at on map. More plane hits means less planes to land at sea and no Islands around.
3. More Cruisers and actually a Battleship or 2 being bought due to the lower cost and now you need those two ships to hit planes too. .
   You will need a Cruiser or two to help defend against plane attacks on your Transports and need a few destroyers for fodder. Remember Destroyers don’t hit planes. Also if no Cruisers in tranny fleets hope your by an airbase.
4. More Destroyers bought and cheaper because in real war they were your pawns and protected your capital ships.
5. Fighters are cheaper and weaker. No more 15 plane attacks with blow out. But it’s hard to keep a lower values fig able to keep up with a D@4 Inf Or AD@6 Tanks. So I’m at Fig C8 AD@2 plane & AD@3 ship or AD@4 ground. I need to keep an eye on this for being to cheap fig and getting over buy with D@4 ground. But as long as Russia has money then you may want to buy your figs first few turns to keep up with Germany down the road. No planes then no plane rolls. Granted you will go a few more rounds in all battles now. But planes are were they should be at. Let the Tac/Dive do the main kill shots. You also have to keep a ship kill for a fig on same even keel with BB and CR especially with destroyers not getting plane shots now. At least now a Battleship can’t always get killed by two figs with those high values. Make it take 3-6 figs over a course of two rounds of combat to kill them like it should take.
6. In naval battles you also will be making a few more different decisions on casualties.
7. Ground battles with Tacs getting a few more hits on tanks is sweet also. I can see a fig or two left in a territory to defend so they may get a few plane shots too or if tacs just Attack with no fig support. This will also happen when you defend a VC to prevent a win or protect your Capital.

More to come.

[barnee]

@SS-GEN
Excellent ! Sounds as if it’s going real well. Yea the Ftr might be a little tricky, but everything looks real good.

[General 6 Stars]

Show down at the Generals Fortress Saturday.
Barnee and anybody else interested in outcome. We will be doing the new plane vs plane with changed values.
Last two games we did the BB & CR getting plane shots same time as ship shots on A and D. That went great with 1 round of mandatory dog fight in every battle. So we going with now in game.
BB C15 AD@2 plane & AD@8 ship
CR C9 M3 AD@2 plane & AD@7 ship
DD C6 AD@3 ships only.
AC C14 D@3 planes only 1 dam D@1 plane
Fig C8 M5 AD@2 plane & AD@4 Gr or ship
N. Fig C8 M4 AD@2 plane & AD@4 Gr or ship
Tac C10 M5 AD@1 plane & AD@4 pick target
Dive C10 M4 AD@1 plane & AD@4 pick target
Stg bomber C10 M6 AD@1 plane
No more 1 round of mandatory dog fighting.
Now all pieces will be A and D for all rounds of combat.
Escorts & Interceptors
Fig/N Fig AD@3
Tac/Dive AD@1
Stg B AD@1
Fighters gain the +1 due to only engaging in air combat. This option could change. Because why is planes vs planes for all rounds in normal battles but not for SBR raids. Ha. You could have 1 round of air combat. Then surviving stg and Tac/Dive do there raids then have to counter or when leaving raid have to incounter 1 more round of air combat if the interceptors didn’t retreat.
Yes all planes can retreat after 1 round of combat in game.
Big debate now is defending planes from carriers and ground territories can’t retreat.
Group is not keen on defending planes getting to retreat.
The hardest piece to adjust for this is the figs.
Now they AD@4. A defending Inf is equal. But ton of planes were lost in war and they are to strong in game. The Tac/Dive bomber now is the huge plane and Cruiser.
One other discussion before game is if we add for every 3 destroyers you get 1 plane shot per round @1 or @2.
Will be looking at Inf going to D@3. In game.
After some play testing these are a few things to consider. Mostly the bigger battles take a bit longer.

1. Don’t leave destroyer by itself.
2. Bring more planes in smaller battles due to Inf D@4. But now like it should be you have to bring more punch pieces. Art spa a tank etc…
3. Always have a few more destroyers in your fleets so your BB and CR keep getting there plane shots.
4. Don’t over buy Tac /Dive Bombers. Still need figs for escorting. 3 Tac against 3 figs fight now every round.
5. Choosing naval casualties are now some what different. You lose 2 planes and I’ve seen carriers taking a bit more hits.
6. BB are being bought more. Due to Tac/ Dive picking targets now and you need ship AA plane shots if your weak on carriers and no plane support for plane vs plane.
   Will see how it goes. Other option a test tried was giving each country a plane or two on first four turns only. You have to watch out for to many planes givin to axis are to strong in first 2-3 turns.

SS Out !

[General 6 Stars]

Barnee Barnee Barnee and any body else.

WE played game. Allies win. Guys liked the plane vs plane every round of combat.
Couple of things and we made some changes for next game and hopefully this is it.

1. As mentioned figs AD@4 did make them weaker and affected mostly ground battle.
   We raised the attack and defense on that due to the fact Inf defend At 4. Like when Russia attacked with 2 inf and 1 fig against 1 or 2 Ger inf it took longer for Russia to win battle but it should because planes shouldn’t decide most battles.
   So instead of lowering the defense of an Inf and really changing the game across the whole board will raise the Fig AA and D value to AD@5.
2. Destroyers only hitting ships was leaving a few of them defenseless against only planes attacking them. Granted leaving them alone is your fault but in war if they screened fleets like they did how they get to hit air planes? They did have AA guns on them. US had the best AA destroyer in 42 and the Japs actually had decent AA guns on there destroyers too. UK was the weakest early in war until later where there destroyer AA got a little better. But in all realallity US and Japan had best due to the fact of Pacific air battles more in war. So we gave the Destroyer a plane shot @1 same as a transport shot in there certain scenerios. Even though the UK was weaker they got better as war went on and beside my game is based on end of 41 beginning of 42.
3. Changed the TAC and Dive bomber AD value but dropped the pick target but made it @2 or less can pick target. We also keep the N Fig the same values.
4. Also raised the BB and CR AA shot also. So next game we play with this.

BB C15 AD@3 plane & AD@8 ship.
CR C9 M3 AD@3 plane & AD@7 ship.
AC C14 D@3 plane only.
EC C10 D@2 plane only.
DD C6 AD@3 ship or AD@3 ship & D@1 plane if destroyer or destroyers are alone.
Fig C8 AD@2 plane & AD@5.
N Fig C8 AD@2 plane & AD@4.
Tac & Dive C10 AD@1 plane & AD@5. 3 or less can pick target.
Escorts & Interceptors. Fig /N.Fig AD@3 Tac /Dive AD@1 Stg. B AD@1

So we go from here. Some may not think this works but it does in my game.
If I ever get the ambition I’ll bust out the G40 game and add house rules to it to eliminate the bid plus the Mech Tank Japan blitz and make at least Mongolia Pro - Russian and bring at least half of those Russian inf in Siberia to Moscow on setup.

SS OUT !

[General 6 Stars]

After more discussions will post a couple changes here with ship plane rosters in a bit
I’m editing this post now with the changes and I will edit the above post too to correct or change Destroyer and Tac / N Dive
Destroyers as of now
AD@3 ship. If alone with attacking planes gets a D@1 plane shot only time. This is still up in the air.
Tac and Dive went to AD@5 & roll a 3 or less can pick target.

As I’ve said if I did many discussions going on about the destroyer getting as shot at a plane.
They had anti aircraft guns on ships so they at least should get a plane shot on there own.
Could also make it if you take 3 destroyer casualties you get 1 plane shot @2. On A or D.
Hard to convince some but as I mentioned,
Like the French battles ship had 56. 40mm aa guns plus 2 other smaller groups of aa guns. Got to be able to hit a plane or 2 in a battle.

SS out !