I think the “each time” thing threw you off a bit there too. That is more in reference to any attacks on other neutrals besides China (Warlords/KMT/CCP all included in that “China” umbrella), and not to potential other attacks on other Chinese factions.
But as GHG said, once a faction of any kind in China is attacked, the rest automatically align, so there couldn’t possibly be any other Chinese factions that could be considered neutral anymore anyways!
Interesting takes from you both. This could lose focus, but I do like historical discussion 
I think you both have valid points on the historical aspects vs. game play realities.
Britain’s and France’s alliance, at least in the form we know it as it concerns WWII, stemmed in 1938-1939 after the Munich Conference. The alliance was really geared towards stemming German/Italian expansions in Europe. I don’t think Japan/Asia was really much of a thought or concern. That probably stems from a number of things, a couple being a contemporary belief in Japanese/Asian inferiority (even with Japanese military success in the recent past), as well as being largely unaware that Japan would eventually harbor the ill will to fight the Allies. They didn’t join the Axis until 1940, remember.
That’s all to say that I agree with GHG, in a historical context, that Britain and France were more concerned about issues closer to home.
All that said, from a gaming perspective, I do agree with Dran here. In a hypothetical reality where Japan preemptively assaulted the British Empire in Hong Kong, Malay, Burma, India, etc., I think it’s very obvious France would have gone on high alert, fully realizing their Indochinese colonies might all of a sudden be in jeopardy. We of course cannot know this, since Indochina was occupied after a Vichy government took control. But I think reason dictates there would have been a heightening of fears in the French Empire.
In that regard, it would have been nicer to have seen a bit more of a peacetime income increase for a situation like this, I agree. But at least there is that +1 IPP for Japan attacking a Neutral UK.
@Dran-Black How interesting. This is totally speculation on my part, but I bet I know why this isn’t addressed.
I bet a typical game has Germany attacking France before Japan attacks the Commonwealth. Meaning, France would already be at wartime income, and so this would be void.
I’m with you though, you’d think there would be something. Maybe not the same rule as when Germany or Italy attack the UK, where France automatically goes to wartime income. But an increase of some kind would seem realistic!
That said, I’m getting the impression that the UK was still not at war with anyone at this point then, right? They must not have been if France hadn’t bumped to wartime income yet. My point is, if the UK wasn’t at war, they’d still be considered Neutral, which would make them eligible under France’s Peacetime Income Increases of “Japan declares war on neutral nation or China - +1 (each time)”. Unless there’s something that would preclude the UK from being considered Neutral in this instance.
@GeneralHandGrenade Unsurprising that you have the intel GHG! And ultimately unsurprising this is in the works. They’ve done such a great job with diverse expansions, this was bound to be an area for one. Very intrigued it’s the same designer as Latin America, as I think that Expansion (and China at War) was one of the best thought out ones they’ve done yet! Will be very interested in seeing this in the future, I think it could hold a lot!
I completely agree, I think the Med/North Africa could be a great standalone game. I posted on the forums here years ago how cool it would be to see an A&A game like that done, though really any similar game like that would be great. There’s so much that can be done.
The biggest criticisms I’ve really heard on the topic was that you couldn’t really do a true “final victory”, since any map would obviously not actually include a Berlin as a final destination to take, and that this game wouldn’t feel like you “won the war”. Well, I guess that’s true, but who cares! One needs to look at is as a Theater-level game. You’re objective is victory in the Theater. That might mean taking Rome and Tunis for the Allies, or taking Cairo as the Axis, or it could just mean surviving a certain amount of time.
The other part of this would be how to incorporate the US. Do you start a game on the eve of Operation Torch? Or have a game similar to Global 1940, where the US joins starting a certain turn? I personally would advocate for the later. I’d love to play out a game where I do what I can with British and Commonwealth forces early on, and then see the tide turn with a US entry. I’ve seen complaints of how people think it would be dumb to just have US forces bought/appear from the edge of a map (since the US would presumably not be represented here). Again, I say you’ve got to be able to have fun with a game!
Hey all. It’s been quiet here lately, so thought I’d throw ideas out there for discourse haha.
I think I’d posted some time ago about potential expansions anyone would like to see. I still maintain that an Axis Minors would be a cool one, but that’s already been discussed elsewhere haha.
Curious as to what people think of potential North African and/or Mediterranean expansions? I could see this working as two separate expansions, but also possibly one larger one as well!
They obviously have the Afrika Korps Expansion. I think it’s a fun, really simple way to get some excitement for the Axis into North Africa. I think it ends up being hard to get a lot of German support down there otherwise, so the existing expansion is a fun way to get that support.
But what if it went further? Would be fun to see some kind of 8th Army unit/roundel/special ability to kind of counter the Afrika Korps ability to retreat vehicle class units in combat. Maybe they’re like 3/5 Infantry like we’ve seen in other expansions. Using roundels or something could also open up the possibility of introducing South Africa as a minor Allied power as well, basically the same as Canada, still part of the UK in terms of movement/attacking/etc., but with it’s own economy. In terms of the new V3 map, having some sort of special rule for Tobruk would be cool. Obviously desert is now a terrain feature, so that can also be built upon in an expansion sense. I think having an Italian detriment might be interesting too, unless German units are present. Italian units were prone to retreat or surrender somewhat quickly in the early war, and we’ve seen setback rules like this too for the KMT units in combat (I think it’s when they roll a 10+ in combat they retreat). It would also be interesting to have some kind of combined arms situation with Germans and Italians, where a certain amount of Italian units could come under German control or something, but making them unavailable on Italy’s turn. That might sort of simulate how Rommel sort of disobeyed orders (he was technically under Italian command for most of his time in North Africa) and sort of cowboy-ed forces for his attacks as he saw fit.
This might be getting more into a wider Mediterranean idea, but having Malta play a bigger role would be fun too. That little island was such a thorn in the Axis’ side to supplying North Africa. I think the game currently doesn’t do it enough justice! Again, the Afrika Korps Expansion sort of touches on this, with the Allied ability to get free shots at the arriving Afrika Korps units, but something more would again be fun. Maybe some kind of extended CAP? I don’t know. This could also open up some sort of special rules/abilities to introduce Greece and Crete some way too?
What do you all think? Anything at all that would excite you to spice up the game in that area of the world?
@Broken-Mortar I agree, that would seem like a lot for them to get!
@ArtilleryAficianado Correct on question #1, no limit on how many infantry can be upgraded to motorized infantry.
Question #2, I’d have to agree with your hunch and insaneHoshi. I don’t think that would count, as it’s a unique area of movement. But a very good question that I certainly am not definitive on the answer to!
@Broken-Mortar The Slovakian Resistance is such a fun and weird little side thing haha.
If they attack and fail, they would now be at war with the Czech’s, and have to combat and attack both Czech territories at that point. Unless I’ve missed something obvious.
You raise an interesting question though, at least for me. If they attack and fail, is fighting a minor Czechoslovakia now a move that would count towards peacetime income increases? As in, would the UK now get +2D12 dice roll for a minor power being attacked? Likewise, I’d assume that the remaining Czech territories would now become controlled minors by the UK as well.
All in all though, I personally never want to risk it, I always bring enough to ensure that the French and UK don’t feel the risk of supporting resistance is worth it haha.
@turndown4rip Interesting. I believe in your scenario combat would have to happen.
You say above that the UK would wait to declare war until that moment. I find it hard to believe that they wouldn’t already be at war though. The moment Germany attacked France, the UK would have gone to full wartime income. While true, that doesn’t necessarily mean that the UK has to actually declare war on the Axis at that moment in time. And per the rules, as you’ve surmised, they can declare war at any moment during any portion of anyone’s turn.
All that said, I’d have to imagine a German player will have already hit the UK fleet in the Atlantic somewhere, making war already a thing. But I may be getting off topic a bit, as your scenario is technically plausible!
I guess with your situation above, the UK has declared war after Germany’s combat movement phase. So no combat would happen on Germany’s turn. But when the UK’s turn came around, the UK could choose to move it’s ships out of the shared seazone and away from combat. If they left the ships in that zone though, combat would occur. You couldn’t just decide to leave your ships in a contested territory while at war and not have combat occur.
To your Dutch query, I’d have to agree with @ArtilleryAficianado. While you’re correct that those are valuable resources the Commonwealth as a whole losses out on, the Japanese would also be hurt as well by never having all that income, or the bonus income that comes with it. I think that would balance itself out that way. Plus, I think a smart Axis player would effectively negate the Allies from gaining much of that income. A smart move would be to wait to attack the Netherlands itself as Germany until Japan is simultaneously ready to take the DEI, to stop the very issue you bring up of the Commonwealth gaining that income!
I wouldn’t call myself any kind of official on the rules, first off.
Yeah, this is a bit different than the other nations. I would say first off that this is one of the bigger differences between versions 2 and 3. I believe the game makers went out intentionally with the idea of making conflict between the Comintern and Allies a more realistic possibility. Example, in Version 2, the Allies and Comintern couldn’t declare war on each other until the Axis had been defeated (though I think there’s a little loophole in the Monroe Doctrine there). Same with China, the KMT or CCP would not have been allowed to declare war on the Comintern or Allies, respectively, until all foreign powers were expelled from mainland China.
The Version 3 rules open this up for conflict earlier on, so I think this was absolutely intentional on their end.
Of note, in order for the KMT or CCP to get Major Power status, they need to effectively have control of all of China. They need 13 IPP, I think there are only like 16 IPP possible in all of China. So while not necessarily needing FULL control of all China, that IPP threshold probably effectively means they’ve won the Chinese Civil War, and arguably have expelled Japanese power on the mainland for that to have happened also.
That’s my long way of saying that their ability to declare war is probably not as easy as it reads on the surface. Plus, I think the KMT would have a hard time deciding to declare war on the USSR unilaterally until the other Allied nations were available to assist!