America at War

[Young Grasshopper]

America at War

During each “Purchase New Units” phase in which they are at war, the United States may roll 1 die on the chart below to receive a free unit. If a unit rolled has already been taken in a previous round, the US player must continue until an available unit is rolled. When all units have been taken at least once, the list will reset making all units available again.

1 = Submarine
2 = Transport
3 = Destroyer
4 = Fighter
5 = Tactical bomber
6 = Strategic Bomber

[Black_Elk]

I like the concept. I’m thinking a rule like this could be adapted more generally for almost any nation or board, as a way to add variety. Even as a one time thing at the get go, it’d have some potential to increase the variability.

[Young Grasshopper]

@Black_Elk:

I like the concept. I’m thinking a rule like this could be adapted more generally for almost any nation or board, as a way to add variety. Even as a one time thing at the get go, it’d have some potential to increase the variability.

Not sure how it would work for other boards, or for all nations as a variable. I thought of this as a way to represent America’s economic strength in the same way Japan’s Kamikaze advantage is represented in A&A 1940 Global… it could also help to restore balance between the two sides.

[Black_Elk]

Not sure either, but I’m definitely intrigued by it. The idea of some kind of bonus unit phase based on a randomized roll, could certainly add some variety.

The only potential kink I can see with American War Production in Global is that the payoff for risking doubles is pretty low. Hard to justify not taking a 100% chance to at least get something with a single roll, for a 1 in 6 chance at doubles that will fail the majority of the time. Perhaps if it was like a token that could be saved for later?

So in the first round at war you can either roll for a single unit, or save the token for next round. Then if you have more than 1 token, you can roll multiple at the same time, and if it hits doubles you are awarded a single more powerful unit rather than 2 less powerful ones. This would provide an incentive to save your War Production rolls for the chance at the cooler units. Otherwise I think players would just forego the doubles altogether and go for the 100% shot.

[Young Grasshopper]

Hey Black Elk,

I simplified it significantly,

[Black_Elk]

I like it!

Also has the advantage of being easily adapted to 1942.2 if desired, (where it might also help on balance) since this formulation uses the core unit roster. Also kind of nice that it features two units from each grouping, Land, Sea and Air, and that it shows a steady ascension by 2 ipcs in TUV until you get to the Cruiser and the Strat B slots at the end. Clearly for the War Effort, you’d be hoping to roll high 4s, 5s, and 6s for the big payoffs, but at least they’re all worthwhile units. Never getting shafted with an AAgun for example hehe.

[Young Grasshopper]

@Black_Elk:

I like it!

Also has the advantage of being easily adapted to 1942.2 if desired, (where it might also help on balance) since this formulation uses the core unit roster. Also kind of nice that it features two units from each grouping, Land, Sea and Air, and that it shows a steady ascension by 2 ipcs in TUV until you get to the Cruiser and the Strat B slots at the end. Clearly for the War Effort, you’d be hoping to roll high 4s, 5s, and 6s for the big payoffs, but at least they’re all worthwhile units. Never getting shafted with an AAgun for example hehe.

Yes, all that… and it helps to bring cruisers into the game (some what).

[Black_Elk]

Here’s another reason I like this rule. It’s easy to test using tripleA.

If you want to use the rule above in G40 during play hit the game tab…

Game > Roll Dice

then based the results displayed for all to see

Game > Enable Edit Mode > Add Units

It can be done on the fly which is nice, and if anyone gets a chance to try they could post a save showing the results.

Also, just as an additional thought, the American rule mentioned for G40, could also work for 1942.2, AA50 or any of the Axis advantage games that have that unit roster available. If you wanted to do a similar rule for 1941, with the more limited unit roster from that game, you could probably just sub out artillery for infantry, and the cruiser for the carrier unit, and it’d still work for America there as well.

For those interested in a more general application of the above War Effort phase for a bonus unit, something like this could probably work for all nations. It might work for example in 1942, using the same rules mechanic and unit list from the lead post above. Instead of recurring every round for the Americans exclusively, in 1942 you could have the war effort bonus rotate by round following the turn order sequence. Example round 1 = Russian war effort, round 2 = German war effort, round 3= British war effort, round 4 = Japanese War effort, round 5 = USA war effort, and then repeat in that sequence RGBJA where everyone gets a bonus unit every 5 rounds. There the total TUV would ultimately favor Allies, expanding on the general concept to suit the smaller scale board, perhaps in lieu of a bid. Or if you wanted to just give the war effort bonus to the Allies and not the Axis, that’s possible as well, there it’d be just a 3 round rotation. The only circumstances that would require clarification are… If Max production has already been used during purchase can the unit still mobilize at a territory/sea zone with a factory? I’ d say the answer there should be yes, considered as a production bonus. Or in the case of the naval units, roll 3=destroyer or 5=Cruiser, if somehow no coastal factory is available to spawn the ship? Again you could answer that by allowing to player to do a reroll I suppose. Then it could work for any Nation really, on most of the newer boards.

[Young Grasshopper]

Hey Black Elk,

My group thought that 2X 12 IPC units would be too much, so I removed the cruiser and artillery for a submarine and transport, which also fits better for alternative editions.

[General 6 Stars]

I like your idea to YG. I would like to see it like this.
1.   Tank
2.   Sub
3.   Transport
4.   Destroyer
5.   Fighter
6.   Strategic Bomber
7.   Inf
8.   AA Gun
9.   Mech
10. Marine or Airborne
11. Artillery
12. Cruiser

You could roll 2 D6 dice and add up and take away the 1 Tank and replace the AA gun with Tank or roll a D12.

[Young Grasshopper]

Hey SS,

The good thing about this is there can be many variations of the same concept, with yours I would suggest having the Mech Infantry and the Cruiser swap places.

[Black_Elk]

Nice! That latest revision to the bonus unit list works for all the boards currently in print. 1941, 1942, and 1940 (both theaters, or Global.)

[theROCmonster]

@Young:

American War Effort

During each mobilize new units phase in which the United States are at war, they may roll 1 die to obtain a free unit to be immediately placed on the board along with all other newly purchased units.

Die Roll  =  Free Unit

1  =  Tank
2  =  Submarine
3  =  Transport
4  =  Destroyer
5  =  Fighter
6  =  Strategic Bomber

This is an interesting idea. The only thing I don’t like about it is that you can’t account for this unit ahead of time in your planning. It also has a little too high variance from “meh” (1-3, mainly just 1 though) to “great!” (4-6). This change would reduce the skill factor of the overall game down a little.

I’d suggest having you roll at the start of your purchase phase, but you can’t place the unit down until your place units phase. Also I’d change the strategic bomber to be a cruiser instead. The reason I’d change this is because the Strat bomber is a little too good, and I’d like to see cruisers used more :). The tank seems like a really unlucky roll, compared to all the others, so I might think about changing a roll of 1 to “get 6 IPC’s to spend immediately”. So it would look like:

Roll a dice at the start of your purchase units phase and whatever number you roll is what you get on the chart below, but you can’t place the units down until your place units phase.

1  =  Get 6 IPC’s to spend immediately
2  =  Submarine
3  =  Transport
4  =  Destroyer
5  =  Fighter
6  =  Cruiser

Another option would be to add tier levels of what you can get. Instead of having 1-6 on the chart, you’d have 1-12 on the chart. Something like this:

1   =  Infantry
2   =  Tank
3   =  Sub
4   =  Transport
5   =  Destroyer
6   =  “Get 8 IPC’s to spend immediately”
7   =  Fighter
8   =  Strategic bomber
9   =  Cruiser
10  =  Carrier
11  =  Battleship
12  =  “Get 1 of each unit from numbers 1-5” (in other words you get an Infantry, Tank, Sub, Transport, and Destroyer)

The rules would be a little different as well, and would read something like:

Roll a dice at the start of your purchase units phase and whatever number you roll is what you get on the chart below, or you can elect to hold off on getting your unit or effect, and instead “bank” the number you rolled to be carried over to your next roll. Example is you roll a 4, but don’t want what is on 4, so you can then add that 4 to your next roll. The next turn you roll a 3, so then you would have your original 4 + 3 = 7, and you would get a fighter. If you choose to carry over your rolls you must choose the unit/effect you get from the sum of your first and second roll.In other words, the highest total you could possibly get is 12, and that is only if you roll a 6, choose to bank it, and then roll another 6. This would keep people from saving up their rolls until they got something really juicy.

I know this would have a much higher risk reward than the one you are proposing, but I think it could be fun, and hope your opponent doesn’t roll 6 + 6 = 12 or 5 + 6 = 11 :).

[General 6 Stars]

I think your 12 die chart is to strong. 6. should be 6 icp’s. 10,11,12 are to strong. If you use the carry over die I’d only have it where you can only carry over 1 turn. Then I’d change around your more stronger pieces up the chart to lower numbers so everybody just doesn’t pick on first turn and wait till 2nd turn.

I’d didn’t want to put any thing on chart that was over 12 icp’s and not make it to strong.

I’m not going to reply to this post no more. I feel its going off YG’s topic. If you want to discuss further start a new post and discussion can continue if you want.

[theROCmonster]

I don’t believe this is off topic at all. He is proposing a rules addition to the game, and I am just putting in my oppinion on it and suggestion.

I’m not sure you read the rules I added to the 12 number chart. I did state that you can only carry over 1 turn. The point I wanted to make is to give the player to ability to get lucky, as well as give them more incentive to carry over their roll. I will revise it a little to give more incentive

If you roll a 3 or 4 the first turn the values are
3 = Sub, which is worth 6 IPC’s  
4 = Transport which is worth 7 IPC’s

If you were to roll 2 dice 36 times the number of times each number comes up is:

Dice total            Number of              Probability        Total Unit          Unit Value Times  
                         Combinations                                          Value                  Probability

2                     1                  2.78%                 6                       .1668
    3                     2                  5.56%                 6                       .3336
    4                     3                  8.33%                 7                       .5831
    5                     4                  11.11%                8                       .8888
    6                     5                  13.89%                8                      1.1104
    7                     6                  16.67%                10                     1.667
    8                     5                  13.89%                12                     1.6668
    9                     4                  11.11%                12                     1.3332
    10                   3                    8.33%                16                     1.3328
    11                   2                    5.56%                20                     1.112
    12                   1                    2.78%                30                       .834

Totals                      36                      100%                     135                      11.0285

The average Unit Value you will get when rolling 1 dice is 6.334 and 2 dice is 11.0285. You’re right it doesn’t really seem incredibly worth it to go for the second roll. Maybe if we add in art at 2 and took out “get 8 IPC’s to spend immediately” at 6 and then moved everyone up accordingly it would be better. so a chart like:

1   =  Infantry
2   =  Art
3   =  Tank
4   =  Sub
5   =  Transport
6   =  Destroyer
7   =  Fighter
8   =  Strategic bomber
9   =  Cruiser
10  =  Carrier
11  =  Battleship
12  =  “Get 1 of each unit from numbers 1-5” (in other words you get an Infantry, Tank, Sub, Transport, and Destroyer)

With this chart if you roll 1 dice you get an average Unit Value of 5.667. If you roll two dice you get an average Unit Value of 10.7866.

[Young Grasshopper]

This is definitely an idea that could have many hybrids… any discussion that revolves around the concept of America or any nation getting a free unit from a die roll is welcome. My first post rule discription is in line with the needs of our gaming group, so that won’t change for now.

[Young Grasshopper]

@ ROCmonster

Great posts, love your analytical break downs… when we think of American factory output during the war, how can we not include strategic bombers on a list like this?.. cruisers were more one and done compared to the amount of bombers being produced. Also, I structured the list so that theoretically, the higher the roll, the better the unit. Personally, anything on the list would be helpful for the United States, but one unit has to be the least desirable and one has to be the cherry on top. Along the path of developing this mechanic, I realized that we have to be carefull not to be unfair to the Axis by handing the Allies big units with lucky rolls, but we also have to take into account how much America is behind the 8 ball.

I did however, take your advice and changed the phase in which the die roll is made.

[theROCmonster]

@Young:

when we think of American factory output during the war, how can we not include strategic bombers on a list like this?… cruisers were more one and done compared to the amount of bombers being produced. Also, I structured the list so that theoretically, the higher the roll, the better the unit. Personally, anything on the list would be helpful for the United States, but one unit has to be the least desirable and one has to be the cherry on top. Along the path of developing this mechanic, I realized that we have to be carefull not to be unfair to the Axis by handing the Allies big units with lucky rolls, but we also have to take into account how much America is behind the 8 ball.

Well said. :)

[baron Münchhausen]

@Young:

American Mass Production

During each purchase new units phase in which the United States are at war, they may roll 1 die to obtain a free unit.

Die Roll  =  Free Unit

1  =  Tank
2  =  Submarine
3  =  Transport
4  =  Destroyer
5  =  Fighter
6  =  Strategic Bomber

I like the free unit.
But the odds is the same for each unit to get it.
You should have an alternate distribution from 2 to 12 by rolling 2 dices.
That way you can predict which unit is average gift and which one is cherry  on top.
It can include Artillery and MI and Tactical Bomber and Cruiser and a combination of units.

[General 6 Stars]

Ok fine. I’m done posting any more suggestions to any game piece or any other discussions.
Seems my suggestions always get shut down. The funny thing is that all these new suggestions and added pieces to 40 game are and have been in my 39 games for years.

So every thing is cool.  :wink: