G40 league tech no tokens Steveo(axis) v Axisandalliesplayer(allies+9)

[axisandalliesplayer]

And he’s gone . . .

[boldfresh]

hmmm, seems steveo didn’t like being called a cheater at best and was a cheater at worst.  Another hit and run A&A player…  probably Emperor Molari in disguise.

[axisandalliesplayer]

He wasn’t very effusive in his one post defending himself. Most people would’ve been a lot more vocal if they were called out for cheating when they were in fact innocent. Shoot, most people would’ve been more vocal even if they were in fact guilty. And if he was innocent and was so upset that he rage quit not just this game but the entire A&A forum, then it really doesn’t match up with the one post he did post prior to leaving.

[gamerman01]

You might be right, and you might be wrong.  There is a chance you just chased a good, honest player off the site.  We’ll probably never know.

FWIW, and it’s not worth much, I was going to say he should keep the first live roll that was rolled.  (Not a re-roll)

You may post your win.  Steveo forfeited.

[MagicQ]

1st time battle result stands as long as you get dice verification email. Doesn’t matter he is a cheater or not. Simple as that. You have absolute right to force him to play according to the 1st result. Not necessarily call him a cheater cos you never know for sure.

[boldfresh]

@MagicQ:

1st time battle result stands as long as you get dice verification email. Doesn’t matter he is a cheater or not. Simple as that. You have absolute right to force him to play according to the 1st result. Not necessarily call him a cheater cos you never know for sure.

Perfectly stated.  No need to assume either way… first result stands is the way to go.

[arathorn]

We all need to be able to see this from axisandalliesplayer’s point of view, because I don’t think he overreacted when you look at the events.

The fact that he rerolled TWICE, keeping the last result after having been terribly defeated in the first two 50/50 battles speaks louder FOR cheating than against - now Steveo COULD be innocent, no one is questioning that there is a chance he didn’t know it was live dice he rolled - BUT, the evidence speaks against it, and axisandalliesplayer must have been extremely frustrated to have this happen, especially since he rolled the whole battle THREE TIMES, and posted the third try, when he won.

Had Steveo only rerolled once, and posted that, I agree, then axisandalliesplayer should have said “you need to keep the first dice” and not call him out as a cheater.
But the circumstances justifies axisandalliesplayer’s strong reaction, as it stinks of cheat. But we’re not crucifying Steveo - he did that himself by just deleting his account.

Steveo could have prevented ALL of this by immediately saying: I AM SO SORRY - WE WILL EDIT AND KEEP FIRST DICE! Then axisandalliesplayer could have given him the opportunity to “redeem” himself, and just watch out carefully in future dice.

That’s my opinion.

[axisandalliesplayer]

Thank you for the support Arathorn.

What everyone seems to be overlooking is that the ‘Also Post After Combat Move’ box was checked. Go ahead, download his Germany map and you’ll see it’s checked. He had to have seen that after he did the combat moves. Given the fact that there was a long delay between the 1st and 2nd battles for Moscow, he likely saw it at least twice as he probably didn’t have it saved the first time. And if it was just a runthrough to see how things looked, it’s reasonable to suppose that he completed the noncom and had a 2nd post map option show up on the side bar.

Let’s say for the sake of argument that he didn’t realize he was live the first time. He had to become aware at some point that he was live and the first result counted. Between the post map options, the in game dicey notifications, any emails he might’ve received, etc. Something had to have tipped him off that this was for real, but he posted the map as if nothing was wrong. Cheating after the fact is no different than going in with the intent to cheat.

Like Arathorn pointed out, he really did nothing to defend himself, explain himself, apologize, etc. And he was on from when he posted G6 for at least an hour or two afterwards, so he had plenty of time to say something. I also PM’d him around the same time I first posted after G6. Heck, Bold, Gamer, and Magic did a WHOLE lot more to defend Steve than he did for himself.

I used to work intel for eight years in the Army, my whole job was piecing together any and all pieces of information. And I just don’t see any reasonable explanation to account for everything I’ve mentioned in this and other posts other than he cheated either in full knowledge of what he was doing or went with it after the fact. Maybe I was too quick at first, but I don’t have any doubts as to what he did.

I’m a little touchy about cheaters because I’ve seen or experienced cheating tabletop (switching out chips under units), live online games, and forum games. (AAMC.net from years and years ago) I’d rather play against the AI than against a cheat any day of the week.

[boldfresh]

understandable A&A player - don’t sweat it.

[666]

@Boldfresh:

hmmm, seems steveo didn’t like being called a cheater at best and was a cheater at worst.  Another hit and run A&A player…  probably Emperor Molari in disguise.

very funny…I wonder if JSP (EM) still comes by as someone else? I hope so….

Perhaps, Gamerman should add a rule such as this going forward or for next year, just a thought?
@MagicQ:

1st time battle result stands as long as you get dice verification email.

We all may do a “few runs” locally, you really need to be sure you are in “local” mode, it makes me nervous all the time  :lol:. I am playing stevo right now, seemed like a nice stand-up person to me. I wish he just explained his position, apologized for the error/oversight, accepted the 1st round dice and continued playing here.

[axisandalliesplayer]

@JWW:

I am playing stevo right now, seemed like a nice stand-up person to me. I wish he just explained his position, apologized for the error/oversight, accepted the 1st round dice and continued playing here.

Correction, you WERE playing Steveo. He deleted his account sometime the other day. I think it’s safe to go ahead and call it if you wish to.  :-D

[axisandalliesplayer]

After looking at the map, I think you were pretty much going to win anyway. The only bright spot for the axis is India, and that’s not going to hold once UK goes. Germany’s going to collapse soon with 30+ allies in Normandy and a Russia that’s outproducing Germany and about to take even more terr. I think all three of us players he was facing had the advantage, although this game and Arathorn’s could still have gone either way.