Historically accurate setup

[Imperious Leader]

They are my notes for what would be placed in AAE40 map based on the differences. The AAP40 historical setup is based on where these forces were and based on ratios established.

[Keodis]

i think im confusing myself by overeading some of this. what difference do you speak of?

“The AAP40 historical setup is based on where these forces were and based on ratios established.”
^ so this is exactly historical according to the ratio chart you posted earlier with no compromise for balancing reasons?

because “Note: the Balance of the armed forces for AAE40” and Note: “Balance of US armed forces for AAE40 map:” are confusing me as to what they’re trying to do.

[Keodis]

wait i think i figured it out, your comparing the deployments on the pacific side to the European side.

Has anyone made a near perfect historical setup of global 1940 or will this be the first official one?

as i said earlier id like this to be historically accurate as possible and from there we can do balancing. id like to see 2 setups come from this.

IL, i can work on the european side now that i know that ratio is accurate. what info would you like me to use? i see u got pacific all done. between ur posts theres some discrepencies so i just wanna know what to work with

[Imperious Leader]

your comparing the deployments on the pacific side to the European side.

Yes.

Use the raw info and make up your own concept. My AAP40 setup was created after that game came out, because i immediately knew it was hardly accurate or balanced.

[Keodis]

ok. ill start working on it soon!

thanks alot. once i got the setup done im gunna do some playtesting. i think it will be heavily skewed for the allies.

one idea is to not give many transports to britain at all. your chart used merchant shipping as military transport so ill see what i can do

[oztea]

Without changing the combat mechanics any historic setup is going to be impossible to play.

[Gargantua]

The problem here is that unit abilities are not historically represented…

For example. Italian Infantry are not the same calibre as American infantry…

Or Chinese troops equal 1 to 1 with German…

[Keodis]

oh i know that. i plan on using D20’s

i dont know how accurate ur guys D20 combat mechanics are tho

[Keodis]

i cant seem to find a good website that shows where the military of any country was locted and what they were comprised of……

i can get super accurate details on navy. i didnt look for airforce yet, but land forces have almost no info

im going to stick to navies.

[oztea]

No, the problem is that A&A is a game of total annihilation.

Even at the battle of Midway, which was a BIG loss for Japan, they still limped away with 1/4 of their carriers and a bunch of other smaller ships.
Now granted, technically they were the attacker there and retreated. My point is that battles were not “till the last man standing” like in A&A.
Sometimes forces slipped away, or withdrew, or gave ground.

If you are going to have these monstrous navies floating around there has to be some sort of way to mitigate the fact that, if someone wins a big fleet clash….thats it. The other power will never catch up in naval units. EVER. Like if Japan attacks with its monster fleet and sinks EVERY US ship in a monster battle and still has like 8 capital ships. Thats it. The US can’t ever collect enough to get back in the arms race with that. EVER.

So you have to allow for some sort of retreat mechanic. Or a limit to the number of rounds battles can last before the attacker is spent and must retreat, or allow rolls of ‘1’ for non-infantry units to be allocated by the defender to units of equal or lesser value. (tanks can pop other tanks on ‘1’)

Without some sort of rule tweak, all you are going to end up doing is having a monstrous blob of plastic dominate the landscape, unopposed after it wins it’s big battle.

[Keodis]

your right. we will work on that soon.

IL, i went through your MASSIVE WALL OF TEXT and determined this from the #'s

France: 13 inf, 3 mech, 1 tank, 1or2 art, 1 ftr, 1 tb

Germany: 18 inf ( then another post divides thier inf into 25 inf so idk whats accurate ), 1 art ( other says 3 ), 1or2 tanks, ( another syas 5….) 10 art, 6 AAA, 4or5 ftr, 4or5 tacbomber, 2 bomber.

UK: 5 inf, 1 mech, 2 art, 4 ftr, 2 bomber, 5 BB, 6 CC, 2 AC, 9 DD

Japan: 9 inf, 1 tank, 2 art, 2 AAA, 10 ftr, 2 tacbomber

russia: 25 inf, 1 mech, 4 tank, 5 art

italy: 2 ftr, 1 bomber, 1 BB, 2or3 CC, 6 DD, 4 Subs

somthing seems very wrong here. alot of in fo is missing and i dont even know whats accurate or not lol…

i wanna find someone with a triple phd in ww2 history so they can set this up lmao

[Imperious Leader]

It is totally accurate. The totals latter are correct. Use the German 26 figure for this purpose. The sources are from books, notes from various sources including WW2 sites.

Use the totals that are after the ratio list, the ones with complete and higher totals.

[Keodis]

ok i will. the problem is theres no info on italian ground forces for example

EDIT: nvm theres units for italy, just not raw data but idc. that will have to do. your ratios are matching mine except for some small differences, ex. i have russia with 1 mech and u have it with 4. Doesnt matter too much. Gotta see what countries are missing now

[Imperious Leader]

In the case of Soviets, the far east force was largely mechanized, plus they had a number of mechanized infantry. The sources listed are not complete because some books had the info, but i didn’t write it on that file.

[Keodis]

Ok. We’ll i guess its going to be a waiting game till we can get all the info on the forces and their exact location.

once that is done, NO’s, combat, retreating and many other rules will be altered so we can make this work

[almashir]

Hello again, everyone,

Sorry I had to post and run Friday, without any follow-up.  So here are a few notes/observations/ideas.  If you want to stick with the ratios for BBs that Larry is using, you’d go with 1-5, instead of 1-4.  I prefer 1-4 because BBs in most navies operated in 2-ship divisions, with two or more divisions to a squadron.  Also, it makes the British fleet large and intimidating, and less likely to be wiped out in a single turn, which goes along with wanting a more historically accurate feel.  This can be balanced somewhat by maybe beefing up the Luftwaffe a bit, if that can be justified by a combination of historical numbers cross-referenced with historical quality.  Also, by rounding .5 or greater up, the Italians and the Japanese get an extra BB each.

By using historical numbers, the US fleet also gets larger, but it is out of play for the first few turns anyway.  Maybe this can be mitigated by a “Pearl Harbor” rule of some sort.  Perhaps if Japan declares war on the US, during the first turn US AAA fire is rolled simultaneous with other units, instead of destroying planes before they can get a shot off.  Also, on the first round of dice rolling, all US units defend with a 1, reverting to their normal defense values on any subsequent rounds.

Using a historically sized French fleet will require a Vichy rule of some sort.  I would say something like the following:  Immediately upon the fall of Paris to the Axis, all French naval units in the Mediterranean are converted to Vichy.  They neither move, attack, nor block movement of either side.  Any surviving French land or air units in Normandy or Southern France are reduced to a single infantry in S. France.  German control markers are placed on S. France, Normandy, Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco, and Syria.  French land units in these areas cannot move or attack.  Germany receives all income from these areas.  All other French territories and units become Free French, and income from these areas goes into the Free French pool.  Free French units can be built at British Factories using this money.

If a Vichy area is attacked by the Allies, roll a die.  On a roll of 1-3, all land units in the area and naval units in adjacent sea zones become Free French.  On a roll of 4-5, the units surrender and disband/scuttle themselves, and are removed from the map.  On a roll of 6, they join the Axis, and are replaced with equivalent German units.  If the Axis attack any of these areas, the Vichy treaty is broken, and ALL Vichy areas become Free French, unless captured.  If a land territory is captured by the Axis, roll a die for any adjacent naval units.  On a roll of 1-3, they escape from port and become Free French.  On a roll of 4-5, they are scuttled and removed from play.  On a roll of 6, they are captured, and replaced with the equivalent German unit.

I think I like the idea of defenders being allowed to retreat.  Maybe at the beginning of each round of combat, starting with the second round, the defender can declare he is going to try to retreat any or all of his units.  Any units retreating cannot fire in that round of combat, but any units he left behind as a rear guard can still fire.  Casualties can be taken from the rear guard first, but if the attacker gets more hits than there are rear guard units, they must be taken from the retreating units.  Now, the net effect will be that fewer units will die each turn.  Would this need to be balanced by making units more expensive, in order to keep the map from becoming massively cluttered?

[oztea]

Germany should be able to steal French boats.
UK should be tempted to shoot the French boats because of this.

[Keodis]

i was thinking of a way to implement vichy france, but gotta do everything step by step

[Keodis]

hey oz are u working on a european setup? or do you want me to do that?

ive been gathering all the #'s to a single spot but i dont know where theyd be placed down at. asking for help seeing as you made a 1941 variant

[Keodis]

Pacific side:
JAPAN
Japan: 2 Infantry, 1 Bomber
Manchuria: 2 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Mechanized, 1 Fighter, 1 Bomber
Jehol: 2 Infantry, 1 Artillery,1 Fighter, 1 Tactical Bomber, 1 Bomber
Shantung: 2 Infantry
Kiangsu: 2 Infantry
Kiangsi: 2 Infantry
Kwangsi: 1 Infantry
Siam: 2 Infantry
Sea Zone 6 (off Japan): 3 Battleships, 2 Carriers, 2 Cruisers, 2 Destroyers, 1 Transport, 2 Fighters, 2 Tactical Bombers
Sea Zone 17: 1 Submarine
Sea Zone 19: 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport
Sea Zone 20: 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport
Sea Zone 22: 1 Submarine
Sea Zone 36: 1 Carrier, 1 Cruiser, 1 Destroyer, 1 Submarine, 1 Fighter, 1 Tactical Bomber

United Kingdom
India: 2 Infantry, 1 Tank
Burma: 1 Infantry
Malaya: 2 Infantry
Sea Zone 39 (Ceylon): 1 Cruiser, 2 Destroyers, 2 Transports
Sea Zone 37: 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport
Sea Zone 42: 1 Submarine
Sea Zone 43: 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport

ANZAC
New Guinea: 1 Infantry
Queensland: 1 Infantry, 1 Artillery
New South Wales: 1 Tank, 1 Fighter
Western Australia: 1 Mechanized
Sea Zone 54: 1 Destroyer
Sea Zone 62: 1 Transport

Dutch
Sea Zone 41: 1 Destroyer

CHINA
Chahar: 2 Infantry
Hopei: 2 Infantry, 1 Artillery
Anhwe: 2 Infantry
Human: 2 Infantry
Yunnan: 3 infantry, 1 Fighter

United States
Western United States: 2 Infantry, 1 Fighter, 1Bomber
Sea Zone 10 (San Diego): 1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser, 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport
Sea Zone 12: 1 Carrier, 1 Cruiser, 1 Destroyer, 1 Fighter, 1 Tactical Bomber
Sea Zone 14: 1 Submarine
Sea Zone 25: 1 Submarine
Hawaii: 1 Infantry, 1 Tactical Bomber,
Sea Zone 26 (Honolulu): 2 Battleships, 1 Cruiser, 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport
Philippines: 1 Infantry
Sea Zone 35: 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport

Europe Side:

Germany:
unkown locations: 26 infantry, 5 tanks, 3 mech, 4 artillery, 5 fighters, 2 bombers, 2 tactical bombers, 1 BB, 2 CA, 2 DD, 8 SS, 2 AP
Romania: 5 Infantry, 1 mech, 1 artillery, 1 fighter
Hungary: 5 infantry, 1 artillery, 1 tank

Italy:
unkown locations: 15 infantry, 1 tank, 2 mech, 2 artillery, 2 bombers, 2 fighters (1 in Italian East Africa), 1 tactical bomber.
2 BB, 2 CA, 3 DD, 5 SS, 1 AP

Soviet Union:
unkown locations: 25 infantry, 4 tanks, 4 mech, 5 artillery, 3 fighters, 1 tactical bomber, 1 bomber ( rated Soviets lower due to huge issues on quality and doctrine, but on paper they had the largest air force easily)
1 BB, 3 DD, 7 SS, 2 AP  ( on the Manchurian border:6 Infantry, 2 Mech, 2 artillery 1 tanks, 1 fighter)

France:
unkown locations: 16 infantry, 6 mech, 3 tanks, 2 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 tactical bomber (air force was not ready and mostly destroyed by June 1940)
2 BB, 2 CA, 3 DD, 3 SS, 1 AP

United Kingdom: Global
unkown locations: (possibly double listed ) 6 infantry, 3 mech, 1 tank, 2 artillery, 2 fighters, 2 bombers, 1 tactical bomber
5 BB, 1 CV, 4 CA, 10 DD, 2 SS, 8 AP
BEF:1 Infantry, 1 mech, 1 artillery
Canada:1 infantry, 1 DD, 1 AP
India:2 infantry, 1 tank
Africa:1 infantry
South Africa:1 Infantry

im going to print this out and try and figure out where all these would be located. all help appreciated as i cant find any historical info on where they were located