How does the basic concept seem so far?
More on the card Concept
The cards, while all shuffled into the same deck for each nation, would be divided into several basic categories.
Puppets- These cards represent people like Vidkun Quisling or Pu Yi. They give a onetime bonus to the occupied territory that they are from and are then discarded.
Cabinet Ministers- Cabinet Members range from Civilian, Corporate, and Military figures who will aid the war effort in a variety of ways. Examples would include people like Albert Speer, Molotov, or George Marshall.
Commanders- Commander cards would be able to grant their special bonus to one battle per turn. So, General Chukov’s benefits could be used on both the German and Soviet turns but only during one battle in each of those turns. These cards’ benefits may stack, so you could have multiple commanders giving their unique benefits to a single battle.
Corporations- Corporations give various benefits to the war effort but are located in a specific territory. If that territory is captured you no longer gain the corporation’s benefits until you can liberate the territory. Examples would be Krupp, various Soviet Design Bureaus, or Chrysler.
National Advantages- These cards would represent unique national advantages for the various nations that aren’t covered in the other types. A couple examples would be the Trans Siberian Railroad or Japanese banzai attacks.
Special Events- Special Event cards would cover unique events in the war. For example the establishment of the Vichy Regieme in France would count as a special event. A few “what if” events would be included, like the proposed Franco-British Union, or German the conquest of the Archangelsk to Astrakan line. Events will require certain parameters to be met before they may be played. After use these cards are discarded.
As before every nation would get to chose a card from their deck before the game starts. These starting cards may be played before the game begins. Alternatively, they may keep this a secret. Additional cards will cost 10 ipcs to purchase during your purchase units phase. With the exception of certain event cards, all other cards may only be played at the start of your turn after the purchase units phase. You may hold onto a card for later use. Obviously, you may look at the card you have purchased. There is no limit to the number of cards that you may purchase in a round.
At the moment I think I will cut down the cards for France, China, and the Anzacs to a maximum of about 6 cards apiece. Italy should get more cards than those minors (after all they can get up to 50 ipcs with national objectives and Africa). So I’m thinking that Italy will get around 12 cards and the other majors would get about 24 apiece.
Here is an Example of What a card would look like
Obviously, I’d work on making the actual cards better looking this is just a brief concept image. The back side of the card would just be the National Roundel For the faction.
As an additional note, at the start of the game when the players pick their free card they will also be allowed to discard a certain amount of cards. So they could get rid of event cards that they wouldn’t want to spend 10 ipcs on.
Here are revised suggestions for cards for France, China, and Anzacs.
France
Free France: After Paris has fallen, France may establish a new capital in French Equitorial Africa. Place a free Minor industrial complex there. France continues gaining money as normal. This card must be played at the start of the game. It is incompatible with the Franco-British Union card.
Franco-British Union: All French Units and territories immediately become British and, if Paris is liberated, then it returns to British control. A Germany capture of Paris conquers the starting French income. This card must be played at the start of the game and is incompatible with the Free France card. All remaining French cards are discarded.
Lend Lease France: If the United States has played the lend lease card then France may play this card to gain the warbonds tech.
Jean de Lattre de Tassigny: Infantry cost 1 ipc less to purchase.
Henri Giraud: Artillery attacks and defends at a 3 during the first cycle of combat.
Maurice Gamelin: Infantry defend at a 3 during the first cycle of combat.
CHINA
Vinegar Joe: Chinese infantry defending a Burma road province hit at a three or less during the first cycle of combat.
The United Front: Once per game the Chinese may declare that the United Front is in effect. For that turn only an influx of communist guerilla fighters reduces the cost of Chinese infantry by 1 ipc.
Operation Zet : China may build fighters as long as it has a land link between Szechwan and the USSR. The max number of fighters that China may field at any given time is 3. Furthermore, Soviet and Japanese forces may clash in the Chinese interior (ie provinces that do not border the Soviet Union) without a declaration of war.
Lend Lease China: If the United States has played the lend lease card then China may play this card to gain the warbonds tech.
Eight Route Army: If Chinese Infantry survive at least one round of combat when defending against a Japanese attack, then these units may choose to melt away into the countryside. For all intents and purposes treat this like when submarines submerge. The Japanese occupy the province and, on the next Chinese turn, the Chinese units are back in play. The Chinese player must either have these units attack the province or move on to another province. These units may chose to attack provinces behind the Japanese lines, causing Chaos in the rear.
Unforgiving Wilderness: Axis tanks may not blitz in China, they may still move 2 spaces normally. Only two axis aircraft can land in a Chinese territory that is worth only 1 IPC. This card may only be played at the start of the game.
ANZACS
ABDA Command: Annex all unoccupied Dutch possessions in the Pacific once at War with Japan. This card may only be played at the beginning of the game.
Cockatoo Island Shipyard: Gain the Improved Shipyards Tech.
Coastwatchers : Once per game, when Japan finishes its combat move phase but before its conduct combat phase, you may make one special move. You may move any number of your units from an adjacent space into any one friendly space being attacked by Japan. Alternatively, you may move any number of your units from a space being attacked by Japan into an adjacent friendly space, but you must leave at least one unit behind. This special move otherwise follows the rules for a noncombat move. If your units survive, they remain in the space to which they were moved.
Australian Commandos: Before the ANZAC combat phase of every turn, the ANZAC player may attempt to sabotage a Japanese air or naval base. Pay 3 ipcs and pick a single Japanese naval or Airbase. Roll 1d6 damage to the facility. You may only target facilities that are 4 or less spaces away from allied territory.
Lend Lease Australia: If the United States has played the lend lease card then the ANZACs may play this card to gain the warbonds tech.
Does anyone have any suggestions for Italy?
The Italians had a division of paratroopers that literally fought until they were out of ammunition. Elite.
That’s really impressive. Maybe once per game Italy could designate 1 or 2 infantry as part of the Folgore Parachute Brigade. These units would take two hits to kill and defend at a 3 or 4 for one battle only.
Edit: Alternatively, I may make them a special unit (marked by a roundel, coin etc) that takes two hits to kill (fully healed if they survive the battle), attack and defend at a 3, and may act like Paratroopers even if Italy doesn’t have the tech. There would only be two infantry worth of them and they can not be replaced.
I’m looking into the following Italian Commanders as possible cards
Prince Amedeo, Duke of Aosta
Pietro Badoglio
Junio Valerio Borghese (alternatively the Italian frogmen)
Carlo Fecia di Cossato
Rodolfo Graziani
Giovanni Messe
Arturo Riccardi
I’m still trying to figure out the Italians but here are the Soviet Commander cards I’ll be including.
Shaposhnikov
Effect: Infantry cost 1 ipc less.
Zhukov
Effect: Artillery attacks and defends at a 3 during the first cycle of Combat. Artillery may support tanks in the same way they support infantry and mechanized infantry.
Konev
Effect: Soviet tanks Attack and Defend at +1 during the first cycle of combat.
Chuikov
Effect: Soviet Infantry attack and defend at +1 during the first cycle of combat in a victory city.
Rokossovskiy
Effect: Mechanized infantry attack +1 during the first cycle of combat. Any units killed by attacking Soviet tanks or Mechanized infantry during the first cycle of combat may not retaliate.
Vasilevsky
Effect: Soviet tanks and Mechanized infantry have a move of 3, but still follow the normal blitzing rules.
I’m debating whether Kuznetsov or Isakov should represent the Soviet navy. But their card would provide two free naval bases (Amur and Ukraine) as well as black sea and pacific fleets.
I’m also debating whether to use Novikov or a special unit like the IL-2 to represent the Soviet airforce in the cards.
So far, I like what I’m seeing. Very interesting concept. Using your German card ideas, I have a couple of questions: So the cards that cover certain events, like “Sneak Attack” and “Vichy France”, these are discarded after use. Some of the other cards that name certain individuals: For Example: Leon DeGrelle – gain a free minor IC in Holland/Belgium. Those would also be discarded after use too, wouldn’t they? Once you place your new minor IC, there’s no more use for that card, right?
Another question regarding the “free IC” cards. Since Holland/Belgium is worth 3 IPCs, could that free minor be upgraded to a major if Germany wants to spend the 20 IPCs?
As for the other cards that give things like an offensive/defensive bonus or a lower unit cost, you can use them throughout the rest of the game, correct? Also, there is no limit to the number of cards you can use during the game, as long as you pay the 10 IPCs per card? In other words, you could buy a new card each round and just keep stacking up the bonuses if you wanted to, correct?
One small idea for another card: Ploesti Oil Fields in Romania. These were pretty important to the German war effort. Perhaps it could be represented by a free IC in Romania. OR, a boost in income for Germany controlling Romania, like maybe double the IPC value of the territory “Romania”. It’s currently 3 IPCs so maybe say as long as Germany controls Romania, they get 6 IPCs for Romania. Just a thought.
Yes some individuals like DeGrelle (as he stands now) would just give a onetime benefit and then be discarded. As far as whether that free Dutch minor ic could be upgraded to a major, I’d leave that up to an individual group’s house rules. Personally, we only let the Axis build majors in Romania, Slovakia Hungary, Greater Southern Germany, Korea, and Manchuria. Because those countries were either Axis allies or integral parts of their nations/empires before the game started. Norway and Holland were just occupied before the game starts, so we don’t let the Germans build majors there. I’m not certain if Larry has a specific rule about all of that written down somewhere.
Other cards, like certain cabinet members, military commanders, or national advantages will have a use for the full game. I’ll be sure to place “discard after use” on all of the onetime only cards. And yes, the bonuses would stack. On the off chance it’d come up I will specify in the general rules that no unit could have an attack or defense value greater than 5 regardless of all the stacked bonuses.
I’ve been thinking about a few cards that would permanently increase the ipc values of certain territories, like a card for Russia gaining ipcs in Siberia. I’ve even been thinking about making counters to represent the new ipc values of various territories. Certainly, the oil fields were very important and would make for a good German card. So I might go with your suggestion regarding the ipc boost.
Any ideas for possible cards or revisions to cards I’ve suggested are most welcome.
Yes some individuals like DeGrelle (as he stands now) would just give a onetime benefit and then be discarded. Â
I love that remark because, even though it refers to Leon DeGrelle in the card set, it’s a pretty good description of how some British leaders (and later British and American leaders) allegedly regarded Charles de Gaulle for the first half of the war.
Wow i really like these, my friends and i just started using the national advantages you made and we were looking to improve them but these cards sound much better because they get more specific with the historical differences between the countries without them all going at the same time making the game overly complicated. i am really looking forward to these. you sound like you really know what you are talking about, but if you want any help with ideas or other things for the cards just ask we know what we are talking about to. probably not as much as you :-D but i think we can help a lot.
one idea for Russia is an event card to represent the battle of Kursk. say like the first time in the game #German tanks attack # Russian tanks the R tanks get # more tanks or a defense bonus to represent Stalins beefed up defenses.
The Kursk thing is an interesting idea. Maybe I’d name such a card after the Lucy spy ring (based out of Lucerne, Switzerland). The spy ring transmitted accurate information to the USSR about the following events
1.Details about the timing and oob of of Operation Barbarossa (after this the Soviets took this source seriously)
2.Detailed information about the German plans for the offensive against Stalingrad and the Caucasus.
3.The full details on German planning for Operation Zitadelle, Germany’s offensive against Kursk. This was Lucy’s biggest success, because the Soviets were able to use this information in a timely manner, and turn the Kursk into a fortress of minefields, anti tank guns, and trenches with ample armor in reserve.
Lucy was so successful that things got to point where military decisions made in Berlin would routinely reach Moscow about ten hours later.
The network eventually suffered heavily because 1. many of its informants had been involved in the July 20 1944 coup attempt against Hitler and 2. the Germans learned about the network and started counter espionage efforts against it.
So maybe the effects could be that, after the Germans have mapped out their combat phase the Soviets could play this card to receive a certain amount of reinforcements in one territory being attacked. This would be based on the rational that they learned about the attack before hand and secretly built up the area. That or the units would receive some sort of defensive bonus for the battle.
Naturally, it’d be a one time use card.
Speaking of spies, you should make a card for Richard Sorge, Stalin’s master spy in Tokyo:
“Sorge advised the Red Army on September 14, 1941, that the Japanese were not going to attack the Soviet Union until:
1.Moscow was captured
2.the size of the Kwantung Army was three times that of the Soviet Union’s Far Eastern forces
3.a civil war had started in Siberia.
This information made possible the transfer of Soviet divisions from the Far East, although the presence of the Kwantung Army in Manchuria necessitated the Soviet Union’s keeping a large number of troops on the eastern borders.
Various writers have speculated that this information allowed the release of Siberian divisions for the Battle of Moscow, where the German army suffered its first tactical defeat in the war. To this end, Sorge’s information might have been the most important spy work in World War II.”
So maybe the effects could be that, after the Germans have mapped out their combat phase the Soviets could play this card to receive a certain amount of reinforcements in one territory being attacked. This would be based on the rational that they learned about the attack before hand and secretly built up the area. That or the units would receive some sort of defensive bonus for the battle.
The only problem I would have with this is it’s like giving Russia free units to represent those reinforcements. Perhaps a better idea would be a free NCM of Russian units to the territory being attacked. Like, say Russia has a lot of stuff in Moscow while the Ukraine or Rostov is being attacked. Use this card and all those extra troops and tanks on Moscow, Stalingrad or wherever can move to defend Ukraine, Rostov or wherever the attack is happening.
@CWO Marc- I was thinking about adding Sorge, but I’m having trouble figuring out what his effects should be. I wouldn’t want it to be something like forcing the Japanese not to attack the USSR or magically transferring all of the 18 Siberian infantry to Moscow. Maybe, if Germany is at war with the USSR and Japan isn’t then you could get some free reinforcements in Moscow to represent Siberian forces that were rushed there (including many tanks, which sadly aren’t in Holy Larry’s oob for Siberia).
Do you have any ideas on what Sorge’s effects should be?
@knp7765- That’s a good idea. It could work kind of like that Enigma Decoded British national advantage from the 2004 game except with a greater range for Soviet reinforcements to come in. Maybe any units within 3 or 4 spaces of the combat (and aren’t being attacked by land forces themselves) could be transferred to the battle, or conversely the Soviets could withdrawal all forces except one unit before the battle.
I’m doing some more revisions to that set of cards for the minors. I’ve decided to cut Maurice Gamelin, since his role in things is basically over during the first turn of the game. I’d like to replace him with a Free French commander. I’m trying to decide if it would be better to replace him with de Gaulle or Leclerc.
From a benefit standpoint, both would probably give some sort of bonus to armor (not that the French will have many of those…). Leclerc commanded the 2nd armored division, and took part in the battle of the Falaise pocket as well as the liberation of Paris. As for de Gaulle, his successful tank attack against the Germans in Picardy was one of the few French successes in 1940. Plus he was an advocate of a professional army based on mobile tank and mechanized divisions. Unfortunately, his 1934 book on this topic sold way better in Germany than in France.
I’m wondering if it’d be better to not include de Gaulle since he’s basically the Head of Government (post capitulation) and technically represented by the Free France card.
Alternatively, I could use Resistance leader Henri Rol-Tanguy, but I think the French resistance is adequately covered in the vanilla French national objective. Plus, I’d like to use only free French commanders as the French commander cards.
Any thoughts on this?
Just a little update. I’ll be taking an idea from coachofmany, and including a rank and skill for each of the commander cards, to allow for some more optional rules. For instance, if you were to use FMG’s units then the cards could be tied to a specific commander piece on the board. His rank would then determine the range of his effects (ie a Major General would just affect the territory he was in while a Field Marshal’s effects could cover an entire front). There could also be optional rules where, in the event of a battle, the commander with the higher skill level gets his bonus while the other commander may not use his.
These would just be optional rules included in the big pdf when this project is ready.
I have a question for those interested in this project.
I’m debating about whether or not I should include war criminals as cards. There are some individuals like Goring who, while sentenced to death for war crimes, played a major military role in the war. Others, like Speer, also had quite an effect on the German war effort. Thus I think that I should include some of the Nuremberg defendants as cards, even a few that were sentenced to death. With Japan, things are even tougher, because hundreds of Japanese were put to death for war crimes. I’d have practically no Japanese cabinet members or commanders to include if I discarded everyone executed or imprisoned as a war criminal.
I tend to agree with Justice Radha Binod Pal, the Judge representing India at the Tokyo trials, that these proceedings were a case of victor’s justice. I feel that way about some of the Nuremberg defendants as well (though others like Frank, Frick, and Kaltenbrunner certainly earned their fate).
Then there is the issue that several members of the Soviet State Defense Committee would be seen as some of the biggest criminals in history if the Nazis had never existed. I’m willing to overlook their crimes, given their importance to Stalin’s regime.
There were also major corporations (like krupp) that used slave labor, but I think that they were too important to ignore despite these crimes against humanity.
So I guess what I’m asking is who or what should be off limits? At the moment I’m just leaving out Unit 731, and people directly involved either in the holocaust (with the exception of Goring) or in the atrocious occupation policies in various conquered states. Should anything/one else be left off limits?
Also, for the cards, I intend on using black and white historical pictures for each card. I’m not going to go out of my way to include swastikas in them, but if the best picture I can find for a card happens to have a swastika in it then I won’t shy away from using that either. Does that sound fair?
I really don’t think anything should be off limits. If someone is offended by something you make, then they can either choose to accept that even though they were horrible people, they did play a major part, and use your cards, or just not use your cards at all. That’s just my opinion though, and some people might object. I have no problem is what I guess I’m saying.
