@WILD:
Nice piece, and I’m looking at a similar unit myself (along with a bunch of other changes).
I’ve got a SF c4, a2, d2, m1. I’m looking at it as a Paratrooper, Marine, Commando type of unit. As a Paratrooper it can launch from an AB 3 spaces (1 per AB), or be dropped from bmr. Can be transported by cruiser, battleship, or transport (takes the space of an inf).
Allowing bmr to drop SF in combat (1 per bmr) may solve your airstrip problem w/o adding a bunch of airstrips. I wanted to keep the cost down, so a 2/2 unit seemed ok. I don’t allow an art pairing, and you can’t para w/o other units attacking via ground or amphib.Just to point out, in an amphib I’m also looking at inf not getting an art pairing +1 bonus in the first round (would be attacking at 1 in the first round), and maybe art/tanks not being able to fire in the first round either. So if you want to take a beach you would probably want to use some SF.
I prefer this approach. A unit with A3 D3, similar combat values to a Tank unit, should be at least Mechanized or armored, IMO.
A2 D2 M1 Cost 4, is similar to Artillery unit on offence which can simulate the higher combat capacity of better trained Special unit, even with lower number of individuals inside this army division group.
Also, denying combined arms to Infantry for the first round of an amphibious assault is a fair way to have at least a special and specific bonus when attacking with 2 SFU vs 1 Inf+ 1 Artillery.
I hear you on the combat values Baron. I was a little nervous when I was making the video because it was my first attempt so I didn’t explain it as well as I would have liked to.
My idea was that this unit was not going to be like just another unit with a slightly different set of values. There is really no way to use it accurately the way I have in my mind. These are the type of soldiers that slip into a combat zone before the rest of the troops enter under the cover of darkness to sabotage the defender’s ability to mount an effective defence or counterstrike. They would be setting explosives under bridges, disrupting communications, compromising whatever type of infrastructure in the territory that is about to come under attack, and then setting it all into motion at the specific time that the invasion is about to begin. That is why they would be travelling alone in secret, so that nobody would suspect what they are doing until it is too late. On an amphibious invasion they would be slipping off their ship unknown to others and making their way to shore to prepare in the same way for the impending invasion. During combat they would already be in position ready to bring the fight to the enemy. There is no way in this game to simulate all of these tasks except to adjust their values to indicate their effectiveness as a unit. The reason they are able to add the +1 to the infantry units is because those units would be attacking a compromised opposition.
I had thought about using bombers to transport them but I decided that I wanted to keep their bombers free to do their job attacking as they always have instead of becoming a transport unit. I also like the idea of having the airfields on the board, they also help move your aircraft further and require more strategy in placement than simply flying a bomber from anywhere to somewhere else.I’ve built into the cost of the SFU their transportation enabling them to move as far as they do. I debated whether to make it 3 spaces or 4 spaces for paratrooper ability. After staring at the map and studying what they could do I decided on 4 spaces because of some of the places they could reach. A good example of that is the portion of the video I spent talking about the Anzac strategy. If you looked closely at the rest of the map you will be able to see other places where you could use the paratrooper ability that makes it such an interesting option and worthy of the unit’s cost. 3 spaces would’ve meant that I needed to go with the bomber transportation strategy to make the unit worthy of a place on my map.
Forgive me for doing a lousy job of explaining what this unit was all about. It took me a number of attempts at making this video to get it this far. I have a whole new world of respect for Young Grasshopper and the job that he does at making his videos as good as they are after spending a week making this one. It was an awful lot of fun though. :-D
This is only the third test game barney. After only this amount of time though it was clear to us that this was a really fun unit to use. We’ve already nicknamed them “The Big Swingin’ Dick Dudes” after that quote from the movie “Platoon”. I’m sorry but I don’t know what ftf means.
You are the king of your basement so if you are happy with this house rules, and your buddies are happy, then you should totally go for it, man. But I tell you, man, they are not historical correct, not even close. Special forces during WWII, like marines, paratroopers, rangers, commandoes, ninja warriors etc etc were light units, meaning they had no heavy equipment, no heavy weapons and only supply for 2 days. Their fire power were low and their combat perseverance were low too. They had to trust on surprise and luck. They were designed to make surprise attacks by sea or air to secure bridges, roads and beach heads before a main landing by the Army. They were not designed for independent operations.
IMHO, a special force unit, or SFU as you named it, should be represented by a specific plastic unit like the ones HBG are selling. It cost 4 IPC, actually in the real world it was less expensive than regular infantry because the lack of heavy equipment and weapons, but for game playability and balance most games have it cost more than infantry. An SFU used as airborne should be able to move 3 spaces from any friendly operating Air base both in combat and non combat movement. It was common to reinforce pockets with airborne troops. A transport plane did not have the range of a heavy bomber, so I figure 3 spaces is the limit. As cargo on a ship, a light unit as the SFU with no inherent supply coy with trucks and horses dont take up much space so I figure one ability of a SFU is a free ride on any surface ship. If a tranny is loaded with two land units, it still got space for an extra SFU. The SFU can even ride on a destroyer, or a cruiser, or a battleship. In combat, the idea with an SFU is it land before the rest of the army, and use its defense value in the first round of combat. An SFU attack on 1 and defend on 2 or less. But in the first round of combat it use its defense value of 2 or less to defend the beachhead. For the next rounds of combat, it join the general attack and use the standard infantry attack value of 1. I think they should move 2 spaces both in combat and non combat movement, because they had some jeeps, and usually they were good at highjacking enemy buses and trucks too. They even had bicycles, which gave them better range than slow moving Tanks.
So basically
SFU cost 4 IPC, move 2, attack 1 and defend on 2 or less. Special abilities are, they can be airborne 3 spaces when starting from an Air base, they get a free ride on any surface ship, and they have a one time surprise attack of 2 or less in the first round of combat only, no matter how they arrived the battlefield.
Another idea for a special ability is targeting during raids. I dont know how it will affect playability, but it is a fact that some special forces, like the SAS, did surprise attacks behind the enemy lines in order to target soft objects like airfields. In one case the SAS combat moved on jeeps through the desert in Libya and destroyed more that 100 German fighters in an airfield during one night, and then retreated before the German infantry could do anything. And then we have the Dieppe raid, or Lofoten raid, both by sea, where the SFU targeted specific objects. Also the German airborne attack on Eben Emael was targeting a specific fortress. Other German airborne attacks were targeting airbases in Denmark, Norway and the Netherlands.
My suggestion. A SFU also have the ability to target a specific enemy unit during a raid. This is the first round of combat only. The next turn the SFU can retreat, if this was a independent raid, or continue combat with its general values and no more special abilities if it is part of a general landing, like the Ranger attack on Point de Huc during D day, they target a Blockhouse the first day, and then continue fighting along with the rest of the army.
IMHO
For whatever it’s worth, there was a lengthy discussion about elite units over on this thread…
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=36518.450
Re: G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions)
…starting roughly around Reply #400. I posted a number of replies on the subject starting with Reply #455 (November 18, 2015, 03:16:58 pm).
Thanks CWO Marc for the wealth of information provided in that thread. I had read that thread a while ago and that was what originally started me thinking about developing my own elite forces unit. There were lots of great ideas there that influenced my choices, the rest of it came from my own imagination.
One of my players has been asking me to add it to out game, not sure about it, but looks like you put a lot if thought into it.
One thing I suggest is maybe painting the base, rather then adding a chip, less moving parts.
My markers came in for them. Each nation has a different marker under them now except U.K. and ANZAC who both have the same commando marker. Germany has SS. Japan has SNLF. U.S. has Rangers. Italy has Bersaglieri. Thanks for the idea though, it might be a good idea to do that anyway to help identify them from across the map.
1. If it costs 6 IPCs and is A3 and D3, then do you find in your games no one purchasing tanks anymore? Seems like the SFU is a better unit than a tank cause it’s even more mobile than a tank and pairs up infantry or mech.
I like your video and this concept. I think if it was the same cost but A2 and D2, than 6 IPCs would still be worth it as demonstrated by the capability from ANZAC to the money islands.
2. What do you think about limiting the amount of SFU per nation? Special Forces weren’t really capturing territories, just mainly doing raids during WWII and there weren’t many of those types of forces. How about a limit of 3 units per territory (which is almost what looks to be displayed in your game).
You may have missed the part of the video where I said that there are only 5 units per nation allowed for the whole game. You can have 2 pass through the same territory but they have to finish their movement with only 1 allowed per territory. The only exception is that you can have 2 in the same sea zone but they have to be on separate ships. The result is the role of tanks haven’t diminished at all, they are more of a compliment to them.
GenHandGrenade, I applaud you for working on implementing a new unit. But of course not everyone is readily going to accept your HR idea.
I agree with Narvik in sentiment. I would play a HR described by him. Also, I think there should be no restrictions on the amount of units for purchase. No single unit should be so powerful that you have to put a restriction on the amount.
I think your HR over represents this type of unit and made it too powerful in retrospect to the representation of the size of the units in this strategic level board game.
I think the “SFU” should be: C5 / A1 / Â D2 / M2 + Airborne attack movement up to 3 spaces from an air base (like the Airborne tech from OOB). Artillery pair up the SFU to +1 for attacks (not the other way around of SFU pairing up other units). 4 spaces is too far in this game I think and changes the game dynamics too much I think.
Combined Arms Explanation: Modern US Army Airborne Rangers call in artillery (or an A-10 Thunderbolt II) for support. So in the game, a “SFU” should be paired up by artillery, not it pairing up other units.
US Army Special Forces (SF as Soldiers say or “Green Berets” to the general public), Navy Seals, and Delta Force (off shoot of SF), usually don’t operate above a platoon sized element. Only Army Rangers operate up to a battalion level. Essentially, Rangers are just infantry, (bad ass elite infantry, but infantry nonetheless). Ranger units and Airborne Divisions were sized large enough in WW2 to “barely” be represented in this game as a single unit on the board.
Cost Explanation for 5 IPCs: 4 IPCs account for the 2 space movement ability like mech +1 more IPC to account for the cost of the airborne “transport” option from an air base. This way mech remain the main mobile infantry and tanks still roll overall better while being the justified higher 6 IPC cost.
